HFA/AS with High IQ

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I've read somewhat extensively relating to the Autistic Spectrum, and I relate to much of what is expressed through studies; I would diagnose myself as somewhere between mild and moderate on the spectrum due to severe "theory of mind" issues, lack of empathy, social stiffness, sensory distortion/sensitivity, and so on. Seeing myself under the umbrella of Autism makes sense (both throughout my childhood and in the present tense).

What is interesting for me is my IQ; I've always tested somewhere in the 130-140 range; I have a high standardized IQ. I'm certainly high functioning for an Autistic person, but have never shown any "Savant" traits; my paths of talent seem to develop according to a normative model. In early school, I seemed "above average" in intelligence, yet highly inappropriate socially and with peculiar behaviors that ranged from tantrums to complete non-responsiveness/lacking emotionality.

Sorry to drag this out; but how do I fit? Am I simply an HFA/AS individual with an abnormally high IQ? Am I falling victim to a "placebo" effect from reading too much up on the condition and scapegoating my own less straightforward, possibly situational issues? The Autistic Spectrum explains my social behaviors to a tee and accounts for much tension in my family life growing up...among so many other experiences no psychological model has ever been able to explain. My high IQ and sensory sensitivity seem to compound these issues. I suppose what I'm trying to express is that having a High IQ doesn't mean you aren't a moderately expressed Autistic; I can relate hugely to what I've read of the condition, and others close to me agree -- Autism, to whatever degree, is "me."

I'm curious to hear from others with similar stories...If anyone wants to bounce things around.

Thanks.

I may have misunderstood you, but are you here asking whether your IQ disqualifies you from a diagnosis of AS? If that is your question: it doesn't.

If ASD explains you, "to a tee," then I can't imagine it merely being the case that you are adopting the behaviour from reading so much about it.

Your IQ is normal among Aspies... a lot of people have an IQ of 140 and above, and some have in 130s as well. Aspies generally have a higher IQ than NT's, but that's general and is one of the many characteristic traits of AS individuals.

I generally test in the high 140's to low 150's. Though, before college, I would test in the 120-130 range. I can't figure that one out.

Anywho... the way I understand it is that auties and aspies can have really high IQ's, because, partially, we are intensely cerebral. Instead of thinking about interpersonal politics, we might think about a pattern, a detail, or a solution to a logical problem. One difference, however, between an NT with a high IQ and someone on the spectrum, is, however, that an NT's intelligence and abilities are generally consistent across the board (at least when comparing the abilities to what is considered normal) while the AS's abilities might be all over the map.

You may score really high on IQ tests, but your prefrontal cortex may be having some issues (look up prefrontal cortex, it controls organization, filtering, multitasking, and somehow these skills are required for keen sociability).

I for one believe that high IQ's can really help compensate for the prefrontal cortex problems, which makes the situation of understanding one's place (or not) on the spectrum more confusing. With me, many people think I am social, other people think I am awkward, aloof, insensitive, or snobbish. I believe that I am generally using my intelligence to call on past experiences to navigate social situations, and with some people I pass, but with others, not quite.

You sound a little like me, or should I say, your words sound a little like what has --and still does-- gone through my head.

Regarding the savant traits... Although our abilities are all over the map, and many of us exhibit savant like abilities, not all of us do. And actually, it is sometimes difficult to tell what our savant like traits are, or how to use them, but over time they may become apparent (sounds very X-men). I've been learning to hone and understand some of my unusual abilities for the last 15 years; they are not as simple as reciting pi to one hundred decimal points.

Regarding the placebo effect... there have been blogs written on this (can't say what they are now), but I think autistic traits can be heightened by being aware of one's own autism, if that makes sense? I've come to understand this as being the same thing as when I am by myself. During those times, I tend to walk and move differently, simply becuase I can (ie. no one is watching)... I suppose if we feel that we can be ourselves, which by the way is, hopefully, a result of discovering that we are on the spectrum, then we act more like ourself.

Last edited by Mixtli on 23 Apr 2009, 11:33 pm, edited 1 time in total.

When I was seven I tested with a "high IQ"; they gave me such because I couldn't read/write (they didn't tell my mother what the number was, other than saying that it was "high").

I also score really low nowadays if I'm out and about, but that's just showing how my functioning drops due to "situational anxiety"; I'd still score "high" in my bedroom.

I still have all of the deficits of Autism, but I have the ability to learn things I'm interested in (whereas the person with LFA may not be able to due to their learning disabilities).

I don't have a high IQ and definitely fit in with most of the quirks and triggers that are associated with it.

You can sort of tell by the way I post, I have trouble in ellaborating on something as complex as this subject.

I have an IQ in the low 150s, but before I was tested, everyone (including me) thought I would get about 130. I maxed out some of the subtests (mainly ones that were to do with memory and patterns), but got scores significantly below that on the social knowledge subtest, and I found that test where you have to put a series of pictures in story order to be really difficult. I often find it hard to communicate my ideas (even though my verbal IQ is higher than my performance IQ), and I always find it hard to know how to express myself appropriately, which makes me seem developmentally immature at times. So I'm kind of stuck up in my own head a lot. I don't really mind most of the time, but I do get frustrated on occasion, because there are so many things I want to tell people, and so many things that I want to do, but I don't have the words or the energy to do so. Also, I lack motivation somewhat. I don't often care about what other people think of me, so I have little reason to create things that are comprehensible to others, like art or stories. So I just make weird stuff, or read or go walking. But when I get frustrated I have motivation. I just don't have the capacity, when I'm frustrated, to actually do anything about it.

I don't know if any of that sounds like you. But I did wonder, too, when I was diagnosed, if I really had AS. I still wonder, because even though I share many things with the people on this forum, I still feel different to them. Unconnected, as well.

I get the impression that you're wondering if savantism is a required trait, and that you're not sure where your lack of savant abilities puts you on the spectrum. Savantism is very rare, and the abilities shown are narrowly restricted.

Aspie IQ ranges from about 100 to the sky. Intellectual development will be in line with IQ usually, and can either be pretty normal when compared to NTs, or with the problems that can come with exceptionally high IQ. Whether you have disabilities in other areas, such as social interaction, no ToM, etc., is independent from your intelligence. Typically, the higher your intelligence, the more able you should be to find your own ways of coping with the others.

[quote="UnusualSuspect"]
Aspie IQ ranges from about 100 to the sky. [quote]

It is not from 70-85 to the sky?

Yes, 70/75 up to any number, just like "normal" people.

However, it can be from 55 to 70 if it's tested as such in school age with no prior delays in cognitive development noted (see = gained speech on time).

On IQ tests targeted for the higher end, I consistently score at least in the 160s, with the greatest disparity being between tests with picture analogies (where I score lowest) and those with similar analogies but expressed verbally.

However, more broadly my abilities vary tremendously, with my strongest areas coinciding almost perfectly with those measured by IQ tests. I can visualise, abstract, categorise and remember complex systems, and have a pretty good “mental manipulation” ability. Adding savant skills of hypercalculia (which has declined with age) and numerical memory enhanced by number-form synaesthesia (which has improved with age), and IQ tests are perfectly suited for me. Better still, they generally are written, so I am remembering and analysing what I see, which is by far my most effective input channel. My abilities tend to be most extreme in areas of limited utility – being able to memorise pi to over 1,000 places with minimal effort has on occasion made me a curiosity while growing up, but does not translate into anything meaningful, especially given that I can just as easily forget why I went into the next room by the time I get there.

When I leave the friendly confines of the “IQ test skills” and move into “prefrontal cortex skills”, social and emotional stuff, and a whole different picture emerges. Severely alexithymic, I cannot even begin to discuss feelings and anything related in “real time”. I have perpetual difficulty filtering sensory input, have a distinct delay in processing speech (and cannot do it at all if there is background noise or if there are multiple conversations going on), and in general am easily confused until I retreat to a quiet place to sort everything out in my mind. My autistic characteristics – perception and disparity in abilities and therefore behaviour – are very strong.

Combining a high IQ, strong autistic characteristics, a fractured mosaic of abilities and my particular temperament and upbringing and I wind up functioning moderately well most of the time, decidedly on the strange side and reasonably adapted to certain controlled situations but struggling immensely in others where people of decidedly lesser objective IQ-measured intelligence manage far better.

I guess this is a good oppotunity to raise a huge flaw i see in wais iii intelligence test which i'm perplexed about no-one else picking up. That is the inclusion of volcabulary and general knowledge to determine verbal intelligence. How can these two tests be included in an iq test?

Surely this would mean that if i took a verbal iq test today and go away and read a dictionary or encyclopedia for a month and had my verbal iq assessed again i would score significantly higher. So i don't get it when people talk about having high verbal iq since verbal iq is in part determined by how well you were brought by your parents, ths reinforcing the stereotype that autism is a "middle class" condition

All of this makes sense to me. Maybe what I was trying to express is the tensions that can coexist within an Autistic individual on the spectrum, on the one hand a "grace" of having high IQ, and on the other a stigma of social deficiency. Somehow IQ seems to imply social grace on some level (I'm not sure why, but it does, maybe simply due to the objective value of intelligence); and I am wary of IQ tests, for example, when tested as a child, I scored 140, when tested in young adulthood, I scored about 130. I haven't taken a test in years, but I'm always frustrated by the bias of tests and their lack of consistency. Maybe, as others have pointed out, it is common for those on the spectrum to come up with a variety of scores between different tests, across different categories, and so on.

I think part of my issue is that I genuinely feel smarter than "most" people, which I think is measurably true according to a variety of sources (IQ, ability, et cetera), yet the lack of a "social intelligence" makes me feel often quite ret*d, lacking common sense, overlooking what I perceive as insignificant conventions, and so on.

Strongest resonating issues described by the Autistic Spectrum for me are synthesizing several information inputs (can't understand a person's words if watching them speak), similarly, filtering different kinds of sounds (can't hear what a person is speaking to me if there is a minor noise in background; I switch back and forth between the two and am given a fractured message), synesthesia (loud sounds and certain pitches carry over into visual field, often gets very disturbing on a bad day), confusing faces (commonly think I see a person I know and turns out to be someone else, or totally miss a familiar face in passing), am unaffected by emotions in others (will watch the entire range of emotional expressions pass through a face while remaining "flat" or contrastingly unexpressive), compulsive avoidance of eye contact, scanning face as if it were an object, narrowed and special interests (they've varied throughout my life, but most of my time now is spent reading), literal interpretation of language, monotone voice, tendency towards echolalia, and so on...Really, there is a huge amount there I can relate to. It is nice to communicate with others who are similar, thanks.

Melissa, is there any way to take a look at these tests for the upper range without paying money? Probably I'm not in the true genius bracket, but I'd still be interested to see what the questions are like (can you describe them)? I do have some very strange talents, and often the more difficult questions on IQ Tests in the past have felt like awkward "piecing things together" rather than going "aha, I see." I have very good visualization abilities but my ability to remember can be poor since I mix up the order of things often. It seems like I would be good at analogies of all sorts, since I'm a student of philosophy, poetry, and literature.

You do have to be careful to distinguish between the social distance that comes from being gifted and the real deficits of autism. People with high IQs can be misdiagnosed as autistic, especially since they may have low social skills from simple lack of practice.

Here's the important distinction between the two, though: If you're so "high functioning" that your autistic traits don't cause more problems than the average person tends to have, then I'd say you're not autistic. You do probably have some autistic traits; many gifted people do.

It's important to distinguish between sub-threshold traits and actual autism. For a diagnosis, there needs to be impairment and/or distress. If those things aren't there, then you're probably a Spectrum cousin but not technically on the spectrum yourself.

This whole thing isn't very clear, of course, since autism fades into the normal. There's no clear dividing line, and there will always be people very near the boundary who, depending on the psychologist doing the diagnosis, could be one or the other. That might not matter very much, though, since people on the borderline often don't need accommodation and can often help themselves learn well enough to compensate for the mild impairments they do have.

Hi Callista, thanks for the input. For me, these identified "autistic traits" in me do cause distress, and seem to have been the primary source of stress over the course of my life. I've known people who are as intelligent as I, or more intelligent than I, who are also somewhat socially deficient, but they don't demonstrate the same sorts of problems as I do. I've never seen anyone shut off the way I do, mimic others, fail to communicate, lash out, fail to express emotion, and so forth, and also be under the umbrella of a high IQ. I think it's more likely I'm on the spectrum than a "cousin." I see what you mean about highly intelligent people, however -- my response is that I've met many very smart NTs who suffer entirely "normal" problems, whereas regardless of how my IQ intelligence relates to theirs, I experience an entirely different set of "bad behaviors" (ones that cause serious problems for me, in many cases). I'm pretty sure I do have more problems than the average person tends to have, and in the areas where the average person actually has few problems; as if I have been flip flopped. Even compared to other "introverts" I know, there is a serious incongruity in the level of social comfort and connectedness; for me it is strained, exhausting, and very "robotic," whereas for others it is often exciting, relaxing, and stimulating (even if the others are socially clumsy).

I took an IQ test and the results were negative. True story! I am that brain dead!