Simple request

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This seems the appropriate forum to post this in given it centers on long term relationships and adult issues.

I would like to see those of us, specifically in this "over 30" crowd, that have become more self-aware of our autistic traits quit excusing our actions based on those tendencies. All individuals, NT and ND, have tendencies which are unhealthy. Yes, some of these are rooted in genetics while others came about through life experiences. While my autistic traits may have made me a target of bullies, presented difficulties with sports, and damaged relationships, these are all things I have had to accept in order to become a better person. Truly, a better person living a more enjoyable life.

If we want others to accept ND individuals, particularly those with autism, we can not continue to excuse our bad behaviors based on a diagnosis. Rather, present the diagnosis as something that presents unique struggles that many don't understand, but struggles that must be overcome. I prefer to accept my struggles due to autism. I own them. This allows me to fully own the great wonders that autism also provides me.

I think that generally taking personal responsibility for one's own life choices and behaviors is a good way to go for adults. Autistic traits do present problems often, but it is freeing in my opinion to live without making autism the central reason for each thing that goes wrong in one's life past, present, future. And also not for all the good stuff either, as a lot of that comes about not because of autistic traits, but working towards something.

Are you saying you perceive autistic adults as using this as an excuse, and therefore refusing to work on bettering their issues? Eg - saying they have no social skills because they're autistic, so they don't have to try and be social?
If so I would agree with that - lots of people do it with lots of excuses, both ASD and NT. I've been hearing that sentiment from addicts/alcoholics recently - that you can't keep going excusing what you're doing because you're an addict, so naturally you would do whatever it is, or it excuses you from treating someone else like dirt because you were drunk. Most people agree you have to accept that this is you, and your behaviour, and yes it may be hard because you're autistic (or an addict, or a drunk or whatever) and awareness of that being a factor in your challenges is appropriate, but you still have to work at improving it if you want to improve life.

This is a fair request, and one i (try to) keep myself to as well.

I might offer up me being ND as an explanation, but never as an excuse. I will ask if the music can be turned down a bit due to my sensory issues, but me insulting someone due to ASD-bluntness is my own fault entirely (to name an example)

That can be a difficult line to draw, when someone's explanation is perceived as an excuse. Autism is such a wide umbrella that it would be presumptive to assume that I understand the level of difficulties for another person.

I believe in personal responsibility--that is being an adult. Labeling issues as "excuses" seems invalidating, though.

Those people in wheelchairs should stop using it as an excuse and try and get out of thier wheelchairs and if they are unwilling to, stop using it as an excuse and asking for accomodations because people who can walk without assistance will look down on them. Oh wait this request is outdated because society for the most part has agreed to accommodate them and judged them as not making excuses because unlike autism it is physically obvious for the most part they can't just stand up.

The sarcastic paragraph above is not meant to excuse people who really do not try hard enough. That was and will always be odieus. What is asking for is meeting halfway, letting autistics use thier strengths and not keep forcing us to try to act in ways that are exhausting or we just can't do for the sole reason of pleasing the majority.

Most if not all change has occurred because of people who did not give up. It also has occurred for most part from the type of people whose first priority was not pleasing everybody else.

Everybody is different. I believe each of us should choose our lifestyles and behaviors based on self-knowledge. That's part of being an adult. Some AS symptoms are not going to go away. So the choice is to suffer trying to make others comfortable or be comfortable yourself. Each person has to find their balance between these two competing demands. Leaning toward appeasing others is a recipe for unhappiness and frustration in my opinion. But totally ignoring social graces is self-defeating as well. People with AS do have a legitimate excuse for acting different even if it makes others uncomfortable. No one has an excuse for being intentionally hurtful to others though.

^^^ I agree. The OP presented difficulties as obstacles to overcome. I understand his point, but your message seems more practical in finding a middle path.

I understand you were trying to make a point, but I feel you assisted mine. People in wheelchairs don't "give up." They still participate in athletics. With accommodations they maintain fairly typical lives, outside of the obvious lack of use of legs.

I parallel this to our executive functioning, for example. This means I must work harder than others/find different ways than others in order to manage short term memory, modulation, time management, etc. This means I probably won't be as good, EVER, as someone not autistic. This does not give me an excuse to accept my condition and do nothing about it. It provides me motivation to improve in an area of difficulty, not unlike the person in the wheelchair participating in a marathon in their own way. I can do memory exercises, set more alarms, write out schedules/budgets more than NTs, ask for others to provide feedback on my performance, and a myriad of other things.

If I missed your point, please feel free to correct me. If I understood, please consider the above.

As noted in the second paragraph the first paragraph was basically a sarcastic attempt to point out the double standards between how people with physical disabilities are expected to deal with thier condition compared to how autistic people are expected to deal with theirs.

Both you and I have the same idea. Athletes in wheelchairs have not given up and found a way to be productive that works for them. They do not waste time trying to to do what they can't do get out of thier wheelchair just because it is pleasing. LBGT people have often stopped trying to please everyone by trying to pass as straight. The change in attitude led society to stop viewing as them as wrong, dangerous to children, and thier natural sexuality labeled in the DSM as pathological to the point where most of society has agreed to give them equal rights. As aceptence of diversity grows by leaps and bounds Autistics should not be one of the only groups still with we got to please the majority at all costs attitude left around.

Actually people in wheelchairs aren't born with wheelchairs glued to their asses. They do what they can to circumvent their problems with movement. There are ways to circumvent social problems or executive functioning issues as well. The way I see it, working on your issues, no matter how efficient, makes you feel competent. One should compare only wth themselves in the past, and not other people. I'm not going to be a politician, so what. I can see how much I have grown.

It's a good analogy, but what you're describing is a legitimate reason, not an excuse, just the same as autism can be. I interpreted the OP's request to apply to people obviously using autism as an excuse, hiding behind it in order not to try, or to force others to constantly accommodate them without any compromises and cooperation made.
Perhaps using that analogy, as discussed above, someone who was disabled and used a wheelchair may use that as an excuse to say they can't work, they can't play sports, they can't leave the house, they can't have romantic relationships etc, because they're disabled. This is obviously untrue. These things just may be harder for you being a disabled person, and yes you need some accommodations made compared to an able bodied person, but you can work on bettering your life within your limitations, and hopefully, others will meet you half way if you have a reason for your difficulties, but are trying anyway.

The accusation by the OP is not that some autistics are using as an excuse, or a few autistics are using it as an excuse but that we as a group are using it as an excuse and because of this society looks down upon us.

The problem with this is that some autistics really can't do it and others are trying but just have not figured out a way to improve themselves yet. Society looks down upon us on for a number of reasons. Some who do not like us need a reason not to like us. Others know an autistic who is not trying and judges all of us by that person. To others because it is neurological they think that an autistic is not trying when the opposite may be true. Also on wrong planet you often see the the most negative side and attitudes or you read posts by people when they are having bad day because people come here to vent.

All of the factors above and more are often never taken into account by NT's from the outside and occasional autistics who think by preaching to us just try harder things are somehow going to magically improve on a major scale.

Yes, the first sentence is pretty accurate. I believe society has negative impressions with autism. The only control we have in this situation is over our own behavior and collective perception of ourselves and our capabilities.

The second statement I do not agree with. Some autistics can't do .. what? Develop coping skills and improve in our areas of weakness? I don't see how anyone is totally incapable of that.

Finally, the point is we should not have to "figure out a way." If Autism Speaks is what many here think, an institution that only works against our actual interests, it is up to us to initiate change in a grass roots movement. Specifically, discussing our coping mechanisms and how we work and worked on areas of difficulty. With the abundance of posts against AS, I am going to start a thread on some of my personal methods, successful and unsuccessful. I hope others will share their experiences as well. My self-improvement has led to self-esteem which has led to my self-acceptance.

I'll try to make the post very thorough and hopefully actually helpful. I'll do it by Sunday.

some Autistics can't pass as NT, or can't pass close enough to ever satisfy society or be able to be independent financially or be able to live independently or be employable, or be unable to stop stimming in public etc. Others may be able to pass as NT years or decades but unable to do it for a lifetime. Others may be able to pass but the effort to please will cause mental damage in the form of anxiety, depression and disassociation.

I wrote figure out how to improve oneself.
I intentionally use language that can seem vague because Autism is such a broad spectrum. Even the Aspergers is spectrum. There is such a thing a moderate to severe Aspergers. Aspergers is not just genius or the ability to be pseudo NT with a lot of effort. Yes some aspires just can't do enough to please society as it is currently constituted, really, it is true. So what "improve" means and how to improve means is going to vary greatly for each individual autistic.

Just trying super hard to please society, judging ourselves as wrong and society as always right, or as always the thing to aspire to because as a small minority we can't change it been an abject failure for most autistics. If we keep on going on this path we are going to continue to be way behind other groups in societal acceptance. I am not advocating no compromising, or just bieng contrarian just for the sake of it. Society at some point needs to redefine what is normal. They have done it radically with LBGT, less so with race and it can happen for us. This exposes a flaw in the NT's hive mind theory. It won't happen for us if we do not stop blaming ourselves for just not trying hard enough and do not recognize that a lot of our problems are the result of bieng a minority. This is should not be used and an excuse but an explination for ourselves and those non autistics willing to listen.

You are going to explain your methods soon I am going to share lesson it took me a long time to learn. A lot of people respect people who stand up for themselves even if they disagree with what they are standing up for and disrespect those who want to please others at all cost. Many NT's will intentionally put you down even to the point of bullying you in order to test you to find out if you will stand up for yourself.

Reading the above posts, I'm still unsure what is wrong with wanting to improve executive functioning skills which are typically inherently lacking in autistics, myself included. This isn't conforming. This is improving an area of deficiency which most of us share. Same as dyspraxia. Improving motor skills isn't conforming, it's improving an area of deficiency.

It's not about conforming. Lots of stuff on the agenda personally today, mega post tomorrow. In the meantime, feel free to give me more to think about when I make that post, but I don't see how what I am addressing is conforming. It's owning that with our great gifts come some inherent difficulties and how best do we overcome these difficulties. Not to make NTs or anyone else happier.. it's how to be happier ourselves.