Page 8 of 9 [ 129 posts ]  Go to page Previous  1 ... 5, 6, 7, 8, 9  Next

Rocket123
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 15 Dec 2012
Age: 61
Gender: Male
Posts: 2,188
Location: Lost in Space

07 Jul 2015, 9:35 pm

Fnord wrote:
Thus, I believe that without intent, no bullying can occur.

Makes sense to me. In every bullying situation that I can remember, there was definite intent to either harass, intimidate or hurt me.



justkillingtime
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 12 Aug 2011
Gender: Female
Posts: 3,954
Location: Washington, D.C.

07 Jul 2015, 9:41 pm

I think there is always a target with a bully.


_________________
Impermanence.


nurseangela
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 27 Nov 2014
Gender: Female
Posts: 8,017
Location: Kansas

08 Jul 2015, 12:11 am

Rocket123 wrote:
nurseangela wrote:
How it's worded makes all the difference. An example: Saying to me "I am sorry your feelings are hurt" doesn't say that you are sorry that what you said hurt my feelings, it only says that you are sorry that my feelings are hurt. That statement could mean that my feelings are hurt for any reason, but my feelings were hurt by "what you said" and not some other reason. A better way to say it would be, "I'm sorry what I said hurt your feelings because that isn't my intention to hurt you. However, we just don't agree on this subject". Then you both know the topic could be a problem and may not be able to be discussed again.

Your definition "an apology is an expression of regret for doing something wrong" means that you "regret" hurting your friends feelings - not for regretting whatever statement you said. Does that make sense?

Some comments:

#1 - This wasn’t my definition. It was one I found via Google.

#2 – I agree that your response ("I'm sorry what I said hurt your feelings because that isn't my intention to hurt you”) is a better one. But, the likelihood that I personally would come up with that better response in the moment is fairly low. It’s something I might come up with sometime later.

#3 – I am a bit confused what this has to do with bullying. In my experience, those people who bullied me enjoyed harassing, intimidating or actually harming me. That was the intent. It wasn’t accidental. It was malicious and on purpose.


For #3 - Bullies are people too and may have a change of heart at some point. I was bullied on Aspies Central by two people that I had been friends with for 1.5 yrs. We got into a disagreement about something and it went bad after that with them saying saying things about my NTness when that wasn't even what we were talking about. I had really trusted them as friends and I couldn't believe the argument got to the point it did. But to me what they were doing was bullying me in my own thread that I had made to try to help my Aspie friend who was having trouble accepting his Aspie diagnosis. Even after all they said to me I still hoped there was a way we could all talk and apologize and start over, but I have never received an apology from an Aspie that I got into an argument with. Just having both sides apologize to each other (for a fight even taking place and feelings being hurt) can help friendships and relationships immensely. I tried to convey that to the Aspies on that site and they never understood it. Not being able to apologize in an NT relationship will ruin alot of those relationship/friendships. I lost those two as my friends - one that was like a second father to me and the other one actually shared the same bday with me. I would have apologized in a second just to fix things and now there's nothing to fix anymore and I can never try to make it right again because one of them banned me. I still cry about it because it hurts me so bad that they would just let a friendship go like that. I apologized several times to other Aspies on that site for an argument they started but never received an apology back. An argument takes two and a one-sided apology doesn't work. I don't know if I can explain it any more than that. I do know that I was told by an Aspie the same thing that you said - they don't think they should apologize if they think they are right. But if you have a disagreement, both parties think they are right, otherwise an argument wouldn't be happening. I tell you, once two people apologize during a fight, everything changes and it will usually de-escalate - at least for most NT's. Me and my friend Mary have had some real fights - bad ones- and I always make sure that by the end we both apologize for having the argument in the first place and that has always kept the friendship going. That way no one parts ways negatively thinking about each other.


_________________
Me grumpy?
I'm happiness challenged.

Your neurodiverse (Aspie) score: 83 of 200
Your neurotypical (non-autistic) score: 153 of 200 You are very likely neurotypical
Darn, I flunked.


OliveOilMom
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 11 Nov 2011
Age: 60
Gender: Female
Posts: 11,447
Location: About 50 miles past the middle of nowhere

08 Jul 2015, 12:53 am

nurseangela wrote:
Rocket123 wrote:
nurseangela wrote:
How it's worded makes all the difference. An example: Saying to me "I am sorry your feelings are hurt" doesn't say that you are sorry that what you said hurt my feelings, it only says that you are sorry that my feelings are hurt. That statement could mean that my feelings are hurt for any reason, but my feelings were hurt by "what you said" and not some other reason. A better way to say it would be, "I'm sorry what I said hurt your feelings because that isn't my intention to hurt you. However, we just don't agree on this subject". Then you both know the topic could be a problem and may not be able to be discussed again.

Your definition "an apology is an expression of regret for doing something wrong" means that you "regret" hurting your friends feelings - not for regretting whatever statement you said. Does that make sense?

Some comments:

#1 - This wasn’t my definition. It was one I found via Google.

#2 – I agree that your response ("I'm sorry what I said hurt your feelings because that isn't my intention to hurt you”) is a better one. But, the likelihood that I personally would come up with that better response in the moment is fairly low. It’s something I might come up with sometime later.

#3 – I am a bit confused what this has to do with bullying. In my experience, those people who bullied me enjoyed harassing, intimidating or actually harming me. That was the intent. It wasn’t accidental. It was malicious and on purpose.


For #3 - Bullies are people too and may have a change of heart at some point. I was bullied on Aspies Central by two people that I had been friends with for 1.5 yrs. We got into a disagreement about something and it went bad after that with them saying saying things about my NTness when that wasn't even what we were talking about. I had really trusted them as friends and I couldn't believe the argument got to the point it did. But to me what they were doing was bullying me in my own thread that I had made to try to help my Aspie friend who was having trouble accepting his Aspie diagnosis. Even after all they said to me I still hoped there was a way we could all talk and apologize and start over, but I have never received an apology from an Aspie that I got into an argument with. Just having both sides apologize to each other (for a fight even taking place and feelings being hurt) can help friendships and relationships immensely. I tried to convey that to the Aspies on that site and they never understood it. Not being able to apologize in an NT relationship will ruin alot of those relationship/friendships. I lost those two as my friends - one that was like a second father to me and the other one actually shared the same bday with me. I would have apologized in a second just to fix things and now there's nothing to fix anymore and I can never try to make it right again because one of them banned me. I still cry about it because it hurts me so bad that they would just let a friendship go like that. I apologized several times to other Aspies on that site for an argument they started but never received an apology back. An argument takes two and a one-sided apology doesn't work. I don't know if I can explain it any more than that. I do know that I was told by an Aspie the same thing that you said - they don't think they should apologize if they think they are right. But if you have a disagreement, both parties think they are right, otherwise an argument wouldn't be happening. I tell you, once two people apologize during a fight, everything changes and it will usually de-escalate - at least for most NT's. Me and my friend Mary have had some real fights - bad ones- and I always make sure that by the end we both apologize for having the argument in the first place and that has always kept the friendship going. That way no one parts ways negatively thinking about each other.


Wow, that's crazy that somebody who was your friend wouldn't apologize for hurting your feelings. If I care about somebody or if I like them or even if I just simply don't dislike them and I hurt their feelings accidentally, then I will apologize. I won't say that I was wrong if I don't think I was, but that doesn't mean I can't apologize for hurting someones feelings. I may have come across the wrong way, I may have snapped at them, or they may have even taken what I said completely wrong and I wasn't mean to them but I'll still say "I'm so sorry I hurt your feelings. I didn't mean to do that". That is sincere and it's true. I don't see why anyone would have a problem doing that, apsie or NT.

However, if somebody pisses me off and they aren't someone important to me, then I won't apologize for it even if I didn't mean to do it. Then again, I don't think most people would do that, aspie or NT.

Now I will argue and disagree with people, but I expect them to do the same back towards me if they disagree with me.

I hate that your friend treated you that way. That sucks.


_________________
I'm giving it another shot. We will see.
My forum is still there and everyone is welcome to come join as well. There is a private women only subforum there if anyone is interested. Also, there is no CAPTCHA. ;-)

The link to the forum is http://www.rightplanet.proboards.com


Rocket123
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 15 Dec 2012
Age: 61
Gender: Male
Posts: 2,188
Location: Lost in Space

08 Jul 2015, 9:38 pm

nurseangela wrote:
Rocket123 wrote:
#3 – I am a bit confused what this has to do with bullying. In my experience, those people who bullied me enjoyed harassing, intimidating or actually harming me. That was the intent. It wasn’t accidental. It was malicious and on purpose.

For #3 - Bullies are people too and may have a change of heart at some point. I was bullied on Aspies Central by two people that I had been friends with for 1.5 yrs. We got into a disagreement about something and it went bad after that with them saying saying things about my NTness when that wasn't even what we were talking about. I had really trusted them as friends and I couldn't believe the argument got to the point it did. But to me what they were doing was bullying me in my own thread that I had made to try to help my Aspie friend who was having trouble accepting his Aspie diagnosis. Even after all they said to me I still hoped there was a way we could all talk and apologize and start over, but I have never received an apology from an Aspie that I got into an argument with. Just having both sides apologize to each other (for a fight even taking place and feelings being hurt) can help friendships and relationships immensely. I tried to convey that to the Aspies on that site and they never understood it. Not being able to apologize in an NT relationship will ruin alot of those relationship/friendships. I lost those two as my friends - one that was like a second father to me and the other one actually shared the same bday with me. I would have apologized in a second just to fix things and now there's nothing to fix anymore and I can never try to make it right again because one of them banned me. I still cry about it because it hurts me so bad that they would just let a friendship go like that. I apologized several times to other Aspies on that site for an argument they started but never received an apology back. An argument takes two and a one-sided apology doesn't work. I don't know if I can explain it any more than that. I do know that I was told by an Aspie the same thing that you said - they don't think they should apologize if they think they are right. But if you have a disagreement, both parties think they are right, otherwise an argument wouldn't be happening. I tell you, once two people apologize during a fight, everything changes and it will usually de-escalate - at least for most NT's. Me and my friend Mary have had some real fights - bad ones- and I always make sure that by the end we both apologize for having the argument in the first place and that has always kept the friendship going. That way no one parts ways negatively thinking about each other.

nurseangela –That is an intense story. Thanks for sharing. It’s been a long time since I have been bullied by people I thought were friends. If I am not mistaken, it was during my childhood. It certainly was an unpleasant experience. If I remember correctly, it included thoughts of: bewilderment, astonishment and betrayal.

Interestingly, ever since, I have been more selective about who I apply the label “friend” to.



nurseangela
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 27 Nov 2014
Gender: Female
Posts: 8,017
Location: Kansas

09 Jul 2015, 2:20 am

Rocket123 wrote:
nurseangela wrote:
Rocket123 wrote:
#3 – I am a bit confused what this has to do with bullying. In my experience, those people who bullied me enjoyed harassing, intimidating or actually harming me. That was the intent. It wasn’t accidental. It was malicious and on purpose.

For #3 - Bullies are people too and may have a change of heart at some point. I was bullied on Aspies Central by two people that I had been friends with for 1.5 yrs. We got into a disagreement about something and it went bad after that with them saying saying things about my NTness when that wasn't even what we were talking about. I had really trusted them as friends and I couldn't believe the argument got to the point it did. But to me what they were doing was bullying me in my own thread that I had made to try to help my Aspie friend who was having trouble accepting his Aspie diagnosis. Even after all they said to me I still hoped there was a way we could all talk and apologize and start over, but I have never received an apology from an Aspie that I got into an argument with. Just having both sides apologize to each other (for a fight even taking place and feelings being hurt) can help friendships and relationships immensely. I tried to convey that to the Aspies on that site and they never understood it. Not being able to apologize in an NT relationship will ruin alot of those relationship/friendships. I lost those two as my friends - one that was like a second father to me and the other one actually shared the same bday with me. I would have apologized in a second just to fix things and now there's nothing to fix anymore and I can never try to make it right again because one of them banned me. I still cry about it because it hurts me so bad that they would just let a friendship go like that. I apologized several times to other Aspies on that site for an argument they started but never received an apology back. An argument takes two and a one-sided apology doesn't work. I don't know if I can explain it any more than that. I do know that I was told by an Aspie the same thing that you said - they don't think they should apologize if they think they are right. But if you have a disagreement, both parties think they are right, otherwise an argument wouldn't be happening. I tell you, once two people apologize during a fight, everything changes and it will usually de-escalate - at least for most NT's. Me and my friend Mary have had some real fights - bad ones- and I always make sure that by the end we both apologize for having the argument in the first place and that has always kept the friendship going. That way no one parts ways negatively thinking about each other.

nurseangela –That is an intense story. Thanks for sharing. It’s been a long time since I have been bullied by people I thought were friends. If I am not mistaken, it was during my childhood. It certainly was an unpleasant experience. If I remember correctly, it included thoughts of: bewilderment, astonishment and betrayal.

Interestingly, ever since, I have been more selective about who I apply the label “friend” to.


"Bewilderment, astonishment and betrayal". Telling about it just brings the feelings all back again. I try to forget it because as soon as I think about it I just start crying all over again. I don't think I'll ever get over it. I trusted them. The one who was like a father - I went to him first whenever I had good or bad news. He knew everything about me, my Ma, my friends, he was there when I lost my job and went through the scariest time of my life. He helped me when I had to talk to someone about my Ma's illness. He helped me with a college report that I got an A on. We watched Big Brother and talked about it for hours. I'll never get over it because I don't understand why it happened. Why he got mad at me and said that my thinking was wrong because I was an NT and how problems are always caused by NT's and that I didn't belong there. And my other Aspie friend that I am really missing right now and I don't even know if he's ok or not was the only one who stuck up for me and I will never forget that, ever. He will always have a place in my heart. He actually had his account deleted after I got banned. My Aspie exfriend didn't need to ban me. I lost many friends there because of that and have pictures that I can't get to and see anymore. I'm never going to get over it. No matter who a person is - NT or Aspie - it should never be used against them because a person can't change that about themselves. That is who they are.


_________________
Me grumpy?
I'm happiness challenged.

Your neurodiverse (Aspie) score: 83 of 200
Your neurotypical (non-autistic) score: 153 of 200 You are very likely neurotypical
Darn, I flunked.


Dox47
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 28 Jan 2008
Gender: Male
Posts: 13,577
Location: Seattle-ish

10 Jul 2015, 11:03 am

While bullying does happen here on WP, I think it's an over-used and loaded word, too often an attempt to label someone as beyond the pale rather than a truthful description of behavior. I certainly notice that a lot in PPR, where strongly disagreeing with someone and pointing out that they don't seem to know much about the subject being discussed is often described as "bullying", complete with Haven threads fishing for insults against the person who called out the ignorance. I think that's gotten worse in recent years, but that could just be me.


_________________
Your boos mean nothing, I've seen what makes you cheer.

- Rick Sanchez


Spiderpig
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 14 Apr 2013
Gender: Male
Posts: 7,893

10 Jul 2015, 5:22 pm

It looks like, in any discussion, rationality has to be avoided at all costs. Otherwise, it'd be too easy to agree on something, and what would be the fun in that?


_________________
The red lake has been forgotten. A dust devil stuns you long enough to shroud forever those last shards of wisdom. The breeze rocking this forlorn wasteland whispers in your ears, “Não resta mais que uma sombra”.


Catlover5
Veteran
Veteran

Joined: 9 May 2015
Age: 25
Gender: Male
Posts: 5,199
Location: Norfolk, UK

19 Nov 2015, 1:18 pm

One member had some lovely things to say to and about me:

http://imgur.com/s6U1xbq

+

Cockroach wrote:
I'm tired of Wrong Planet, it's one of the worst web communities I've ever been to. My other account, Cockroach96, was temporarily banned because of Catlover5, a dumb oversensitive homosexual who watches fashion shows. I'm leaving forever.
I want the following accounts permanently disabled: Cockroach and Cockroach96.


As well as other personal attacks beforehand. I reported what they said and fortunately the user is now permanently banned.



lelia
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 11 Apr 2007
Age: 72
Gender: Female
Posts: 2,897
Location: Vancouver not BC, Washington not DC

19 Nov 2015, 2:25 pm

Whoa. Disagreement should not include that kind of vitriol and out of control fury. I don't mind being disagreed with but I will respond to threats. Good for you Catlover for reporting that person.



Catlover5
Veteran
Veteran

Joined: 9 May 2015
Age: 25
Gender: Male
Posts: 5,199
Location: Norfolk, UK

19 Nov 2015, 2:35 pm

^ Thank you :)



Alien_Papa
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 7 Nov 2008
Gender: Male
Posts: 666
Location: Minor Key

21 Nov 2015, 12:36 am

Catlover5 wrote:
One member had some lovely things to say to and about me:

http://imgur.com/s6U1xbq



Nobody here has ever cared that much about me :|

If I was ever bullied on WP then I didn't notice it. Like IRL, I don't really engage much.



andrethemoogle
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 6 Sep 2013
Gender: Male
Posts: 1,254
Location: Sol System

21 Nov 2015, 3:37 am

Yes, I have been, which is why I have been away from the site and the problem I reported seems to not have been dealt with, so I fail to see why I would continue using these forums.



Ben_Is_My_Only_God
Deinonychus
Deinonychus

User avatar

Joined: 2 Sep 2015
Posts: 345

21 Nov 2015, 6:34 am

I was subjected to a totally unprovoked verbal attack, and was threatened with physical violence, within a fortnight of joining this forum. I was not happy with how the situation was dealt with, which is why I no longer post here. I've made an exception for this one post.


_________________
Whatever it is that you think that I'm thinking... you're wrong!

345 is a nice number on which to end.

Bimog And The Search For Pangea


BeaArthur
Veteran
Veteran

Joined: 11 Aug 2015
Posts: 5,798

23 Nov 2015, 10:56 pm

Yes. Somebody attempted to ridicule me and I stood up to them. Now I try not to engage with people much.


_________________
A finger in every pie.


MDD123
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 6 May 2009
Age: 41
Gender: Male
Posts: 2,007

25 Nov 2015, 1:48 pm

I don't really worry if one person bullies, it's when everyone does it that things get really uncomfortable. I've known people who have rallied people against one specific individual too. I think people on WP usually see through that sort of thing though.


_________________
I'm a math evangelist, I believe in theorems and ignore the proofs.