30 yo Ph.D (soon) who doesn't have independent living skills

Post Reply New Topic

Hey everyone,

My second most recent post was originally on here, but I deleted it seeing there was a work section and I thought that post would be more applicable to that section.

I'm posting here because I recently turned 30 back in April and I'm having issues with independent living skills and independently managing stress. I should give the disclaimer that I was recently diagnosed with sleep apnea and PTSD from how my first Ph.D advisor treated me as well as the budget issues my program's had recently. However, I've had issues with being an independent adult ever since I graduated high school at 19 (my parents waited a year before enrolling me in K-12 since they suspected my neurodivergence). In addition to my autism/Asperger's, I have ADHD-I, dysgraphia, 3rd percentile processing speed, social anxiety, generalized anxiety, and MDD - Recurrent - Moderate. I'm currently back living with my parents since I moved my things out of my apartment where I'm doing my Ph.D in Michigan (I'm done with data collection so I don't need to be there in person) and did not renew my lease since there was no point (it expires July 31st).

Notable examples:

1.) I never handled my own FAFSA or loans when I borrowed for undergraduate at all (2013-2017), nor did I check the costs of living for anything. I let my parents handle all of that.

2.) It wasn't until graduate school that I got access to my disability documentation and saw I had ADHD-I, dysgraphia, and social anxiety diagnoses. Notably, I was diagnosed with my autism at age 9 and my parents told me at 14. I was financially supported up until what I needed to live in the area where I did my Master's program (since I had an assistantship that gave me a decent stipend to live in the area but was just under half of what I needed in this case).

3.) I had a life coach throughout undergraduate who gave me study advice, helped me navigate social situations, and guided me through emotion and poor stress management (my most difficult skill I haven't yet mastered at all) for difficult situations. Although this was helpful, I never learned how to manage my poor stress management in appropriate ways by myself at all and always waited on the input of the coach to know how to manage them. It got to the point where I was less reliant on him over time, but now I'm in my Ph.D program and still having immense difficulties.

4.) I also had a coach during an involuntary gap year I took who helped me navigate the graduate school application process, how to communicate with potential advisors, and personal statement drafts.

5.) I had my first official budget during my Master's program before I was totally fiscally independent in my Ph.D program by legal definition. The notable expenses that were covered by my parents were car insurance for a while, phone bill (family plan), initial therapy sessions I had with my current therapist (first paycheck for a $56k visiting instructor position I took did not give me my first paycheck until mid September), and summers where I asked my folks to assist me since my program does not give summer funding at all. I also learned how to navigate Medicaid and other state systems that give assistance to those living in poverty (since Ph.D wages, despite tuition waiver and stipend, are poverty level with the restriction of not working an outside job).

6.) I got better at managing stress and had less frequent meltdowns when I started my Master's program up until my second year of my Ph.D program when I was done with classes at that point and needed research credit hours and qualifier credit hours. That was when I had meltdowns since I was told to only work on my qualifier project and my advisor would berate and constantly move the goalpost.

Some clarification points as well: None of the coaches ever helped me with class work or anything like that since that would be academic dishonesty. I also left enough of an impression on some folks in my undergraduate that they could write me letters of recommendation after I knew how to communicate with them in this case.

I'm turning to this forum to ask: How can I become more independent? Is there a chance I'm more independent than I give myself credit for in this case?

I'm also turning here because I've posted to academic forums (e.g., Reddit) and I'm constantly hit with being told I've been coddled or something similar. I figured posting here would give more considerate answers since the concept of living independently as an autistic adult has been a topic ever since online forums and discussion boards for autistic adults became a thing. I'm also open to unsolicited advice beyond the scope of the questions I asked if you all find that helpful.

I don't think you have much to worry about.

Grad school is really an opportunity for those who have some external support. Not a whole lot of people would volunteer for the work you do on the RA or TA stipend most colleges provide.

Plus, there are plenty of people who receive the level of help or care from their parents you may have received that aren't pursuing a PhD.

I would say continue to focus on completing your degree, see what you can do to line up a postdoc, or if you want to make the leap to industry, go ahead and do that.

I would think if you've made it this far in your program you are capable of independent living. If you're capable of balancing normal home tasks and chores with the work and responsibilities provided to you by your PhD program, you are living independently. Sure, there are people in PhD programs who are coddled or have tutors and are essentially paying for what would otherwise be a degree awarded with merit, but you don't seem to fall under that.

As I see it, you're as independent of your folks as you think you are. I am around your age and I did not have the opportunities your parents provided you with, or really any empathetic response or treatment when it came to any symptoms of ASD I may have had. I occasionally do laundry at their house and I am still on their cell family plan, but I live alone and work a 9-5. I consider myself independent. I have friends my age with kids who stay nights of the week at their parent's house. I consider them independent.

As far as Reddit goes, there's so many people there who are trying to enter contests with strangers about how traumatic or challenging their graduate school experience was. I feel like the messages I read on Reddit, especially for the academia/student subreddits, tend to skew to extreme patterns. There are people who might be completely independent at college, but to even get into college in the first place requires a tremendous amount of help and effort from the nuclear family. Successful people of all stripes almost never go at it alone.

@notboston

Your reply gives me a ton of perspective for sure. Everyone has some sort of support system.

I'll definitely complete my degree in that case. I will mention that I'm at an R2 with major budget issues (it's a university in Michigan that's had a 50% enrollment decline in the past decade alone) and, given I'm on my third research track now, I don't expect to land a postdoc given that I don't have any publications nor manuscripts in development at the moment sadly.

I want to go into industry as well, albeit for a Research Coordinator position. I personally wouldn't mind being one for a college/university either though since both essentially share the same duties just in different contexts.

As far as doing home tasks and chores go, I can definitely do those things. I even taught myself a fair amount of cooking skills my first year of my Ph.D program after my parents gifted me an air fryer. I will say that I recently moved back in with my parents, but that was for two reasons. The first is that I'm doing an internship at a top 10 children's hospital in the country that's 20 minutes away from my hometown. The second is that I've been done with data collection for my dissertation since January of this year and need to write everything up. Since my lease was up on July 31st, there was no point in me sticking around and paying rent in the area if I didn't need to be there and am not sure what my next job will be quite yet.

https://www.sju.edu/kinney/autism-servi ... ife-skills

@Fenn Does that resource help with stress management as well? I find that's my biggest obstacle all of the time.

In my diagnosis of Autism it said anxiety is so common in autistic individuals she wouldn’t even call it a separate diagnosis.

Talk therapy can help. Meds can help. Both together help more than either one alone. (Statistically speaking based on studies.)

Google stress management and DBT.

I forgot to update this thread, but I'm currently looking into other resources right now to help manage my anxiety and stress since my current therapist is retiring after my final appointment with him on Sunday morning (7/28).

Once I meet with Ohio Vocational Rehabilitation, I'm going to see what they suggest as well. For those who haven't seen my other thread (Ph.D who lacks independence and job search issues), I'm trying to find resources to help me find lower stress jobs as well. I have a Schedule A hiring letter and am eligible for the federal Workforce Recruitment Program (WRP) so that's a plus. No offers from WRP yet, but it's better than nothing.

This thread brings back memories. I didn't do well the first time I attended college, but I went back and stayed seven years. It was maybe better than any "job" I ever had. I earned two Masters degrees, and my EE advisor wanted me to continue to the Ph.D. program. I was tempted, but I realized that Ph.D.'s require better social skills than I'll ever have when it's time to get a job, usually in academia or research.

My ability for independence is pretty good, but it wasn't always thus. What I'm suggesting is that you need a thorough self-assessment of all the independence pathways that you can develop using resources that you can control. For me, "self-sufficiency" is the main thing. It is impossible for me to develop relationships that create reliable, reciprocal mutual assistance possibilites. Also I'd note that your parents obviously won't always be there to help you. I suppose this could really be a looming problem.

Some cities have autism resources for independent living support, too. As an aside, I'd invite you to take a look at First Place in Phoenix/Tempe, AZ, which is a project spearheaded by SARRC (Southwest Autism Research & Resource Center).

@stevens2010

That story is really great and I appreciate you sharing that.

One thing I've realized now, ever since I've created this thread, is that my support system primarily helps me with that emotion management piece and avoiding self sabotage as much as possible in the process (as you can saw by my story here, I did that quite a bit).

I'll look into that First Place you mentioned since this is the first time I've ever heard of a research that helps with independent living support. If that includes emotion management and social support, I think I'm golden.

*see from the story.

ETA Update as well: I looked into that First Place and other independent living resources for autistic and/or neurodivergent adults. I'm now confident that's likely what I don't need at all. My evaluation even mentioned my skills to navigate and complete basic tasks for independent living is above average. I'm thinking the main thing I need at this point is coping skills to handle my severe emotions independently in this case.

This also wasn't on my evaluation, but I always remember taking those big five personality tests (the original and variations of it) and neuroticism was always extremely high for me.

I'm also not exactly "used to discomfort" either as folks put it. I want to get away from discomfort ASAP because I've never been capable of distinguishing "normal discomfort" (e.g., bills, dealing with coworkers) versus "atypical discomfort" (e.g., toxic friends, scams, etc.).

I really admire the steps you are taking to evaluate what resources are available to you and which are and are not a good match for your current needs.

@Fenn

I think that I might just need someone in my corner who can help me distinguish between what's a normal stressor and what isn't because my distinction really is not there at all.

I distinctly remember my first therapist (she also evaluated me) having a conversation with me at 14-15 years old when I had to do a capstone project in high school that involved a speech. She asked me what I would do when confronted with tough situations I don't want to be in and I said that I'd run away from them. I've clearly been able to deal with tough classes and whatnot but now that I'm reflecting on this, I think I'm dealing with my tendency to be avoidant yet again.

I even remember when I had suicidal ideation a little over a year ago I texted her about that and she goes, "Academia wasn't for you then. But we had to find some way to use your intelligence don't you think?"

I do remember it was her, my parents, and my support system who thought I should've pursued an undergraduate education (even though I didn't do well in undergrad and not so hot early graduate school). If I didn't pursue one (or even if I took a break), I wouldn't have had any support at all since my folks thought I had that much potential. Never felt like I ever lived up to it because of how much of a mismatch I've been with advisors and the rest of the supports within the universities I've attended in my lifetime.

I sometimes think that if someone wanted to create a world exactly the oppisite of what an ND needed they would create academia.

You said "find some way to use your intelligence". I like that. That makes sense. And academia really isn't the only option for that.

@Fenn

I agree with that first statement wholeheartedly. Folks who can function in academia are folks that are pretty much married to their special interest in the form of a research topic. Unfortunately, many autistics consistently mention that the other demands of a Ph.D (e.g., collaboration, interpersonal skills) are way too much for them a lot of the time. Using myself as an example, I've had my Master's advisor ghost me and my first Ph.D advisor try to get me to leave the program (only to later ghost me again as well).

There's definitely other ways I can use what I have, I just need to find what that is at this point in time. The good news is that I met with Ohio Vocational Rehabilitation last week and I have a case with them now. Now, it's a matter of whether they can cover the cost of ASPIRE. They also gave me a discounted rate too ($2000 for biweekly meetings over a semester). I know the director's a busy guy but here's hoping I can work with him since we're in the same subfield of Psychology.

@zzmnd I'm impressed and glad that you're near to getting your PhD, despite your poor independent living skills. I wish you great success with whatever you choose to do.

In the mid 1970s I struggled unsuccessfully to balance pleasing my parents, by being the first in my family to get university, with the stark reality that I lacked the necessary independent living skills to cope at university. Back then there wasn't the help and support that's available now . Months of intense anxiety led to my becoming severely mentally ill.

I never got the help and support when it came to independent living skills ,or for the executive functioning difficulties that adversely affected those living skills. I was seen as being a bad patient, someone with a major character defect. It wasn't till I was 60, and thanks to my daughter's intervention , that those myths about me having a major character defect were smashed to smithereens. It was finally accepted that I had genuine difficulties. Far too late to fix the damage, but for the last nearly 7 years I've been treated well by mental health professionals . A very welcome contrast to over 40 years of being treated like crap.

@firemonkey

That's good that things have changed for the better on your end! Like you, I've realized that I have genuine difficulties that would get in the way of continuing in academia (e.g., a postdoc, continuing in research).

Unfortunately, I'm in a situation where I could quit. However, that doesn't necessarily mean it's ok. By that, I mean that if I quit now, I will never get a reference from my advisor nor anyone else in my program ever again. When someone commits to the route of Ph.D, they're expected to all the way through unless they want to burn bridges by quitting in this case.

That's why, even though someone can go from undergrad straight to Ph.D, very few will leave with just a Master's even though that's earned en route to their Ph.D. If someone leaves with just a Master's, they'll burn bridges with their advisor and never get a reference. The only time I knew that happened to someone was when their advisor had disputes with them over seeing their Ph.D all the way through and wouldn't sign off on the paperwork for them to go all the way through the Ph.D program. They're now employed at their undergraduate alma mater as a full time instructor (not professor since a terminal degree is necessary to be one).