I am becoming a Christian

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the resaon christianity falls down for me is that if you belive in god then you have to acknowledge the devil.

a guy with a tail,pointy horns, cloven hooves and of an all over red hue, i mean c'mon, get serious.

disclaimer: this mail is in no way meant to lampoon individuals faith.

SAY WHAAAA>???

SAY WHAAAA>???

Yeah except that that description does not appear anywhere in the bible. It was invented later by artists.

The vast majority of people who identify as Christians have not studied the Bible in any worthwhile detail at all. In fact, actually reading the Bible seriously is the best way for a Christian to lose their faith. I used to debate theism and religion heavily as an obsessive hobby, and I have met a grand total of one Christian who knew what he was talking about well enough to put forth a respectable argument for his religion... And even then, it was vastly different from what most people would call Christianity.

That's pretty easily explained by Confirmation bias. There are a *lot* of contradictions of that precise nature in the Bible. Most people simply chalk those up to ambiguous interpretations, mistakes in translation or literally gloss over them. And for the love of Zeus, don't demand that I provide you with precise examples. I used to, but damn that's petty and I don't debate individual religions anymore. I'm more concerned with the more fundamental principles of theism now. It's pretty easy to disprove any individual theistic construct; God by definition (at least the one purported in the Bible, which is in itself a contradiction as part of the definition includes an undefinability clause) cannot be described with that level of precision. I just have a huge problem with a book that claims to know not only of the existence of an omniscient, omnipotent being, but also bunch of specific policies and intentions of a this being, who it *also* claims cannot be comprehended by human standards and whose nature cannot be defined anyway.



Ever hear the old saying that 'history is always written by the victors?' I wouldn't trust anything the bible says about the devil... It's in God's best interests to try to vilify his rival to the largest extent possible. Even supposing the devil exists, you can bet that there would be a lot of misrepresentation of events as well as outright slander present there. I once had a lengthy discussion with my aforementioned Christian friend about that... And we both agreed it was highly likely. The devil is described as one of God's high level minions, an archangel, who decided to rebel against him because he disagreed with the way God was running the show and decided to say something about it... And for it was exiled. Why would God take such an extreme and unforgiving action if Lucifer posed no threat nor was there any truth in his words? It sounds an awful lot like somebody in the know disagreeing with a number of corrupt policies and standing up to a corrupt, authoritarian regime in an attempt to affect change with reason only to be silenced and demonized for it. This kind of thing happens pretty frequently, and as we all know, God/man made man/God in his/their own image.

Last edited by BobTheMartian on 12 Mar 2009, 8:40 pm, edited 1 time in total.

^ If that were true why would god have given him control over the world for the last several thousand years to prove his point?

absolutely. I find christians who don't think the devil is real, or think its just some mediaeval myth absurd. satan is a real force in the world, just as god is. he can take on any identity he wishes, so the tail, pointy horns etc is a bit well, I dunno about that picture.

Ok, even disregarding the clichéd devil/evil image I think that this is just one example of why I find Christianity belief difficult to follow. It seems that it is so open to interpretation it’s hard to know if you are following the right line. It ‘feels’ uncomfortable and confusing,.

I prefer the Buddhist teachings ; clearly defined, easy to follow instructions.

The closer something is to science and an empirical method of understanding the easir things are to follow.

At the end of the day I think all formal religions are probably derivative.

Q: Why are we religious?
A: Because we want answers and we are afraid of dying.

Q: Why do we want answers?
A: Because otherwise, we'd think too much about topics that are impossible to find an answer for in the first place.

Q: Why are we afraid of dying?
A: Because it's the unknown. We are automatically afraid of things we don't understand.

Q: There are literally hundreds of religions. What religion is the correct one?
A: Short answer: None. Long answer (in short terms): Everyone have positive moral values. Choose the one that fits your lifestyle.

Q: What alternatives are there to religion?
A: Atheism. I've spent a LOT of time thinking about all the topics that religion hands you the prefabricated answers to.

Let's take the concept of God. What you see in the world is what you get. God's existance is logically impossible because whenever science expands it's horizons, God needs to be pushed further away. This will in essence continue forever.

Let's take the concept of death. All current physics theories dictate that an absolute nothingness or end is physically impossible. Energy can't disappear from the universe, it can only change form. It is therefore impossible that death is the ultimate end anyway, so why believing in a fantasy figure?

Let's take the concept of consciousness. You sit inside your head and look out of your eyes. What is looking? What is the "me"? Is it physical? If not, it doesn't have to be energy, does it? -- Well, it's not exactly physical. I believe consciousness is an illusion. An additional effect of being intelligent. Also, it has been developed through the advancement of language and the fact that we have communicated with each other and found out that we are, in fact, individuals. Also, people "back then" began to create tools and devices to help them in the daily life. It soon became impossible for them to imagine that anything could exist without having a creator. (Yes, this is very simplified. I could take the long discussion somewhere else though.)

But SOMETHING had to create the universe. Sure, but using the same deductive logics; Something had to create the something that created the universe and we are back to square 1. Who created God?

Religions answer this with a simple "God is eternal". Great! Discussion ends there. (It's impossible to fight against dedicated bigotry.)

i must admit i got introduced to Buddhism by a friend when i ws aving a particularly hard time tryig to understand other peoples actions. it really helps put things into a managable context.

as it may have been said elsewhere on this site - people are problems

well you could always look into an audio bible as well that way you can just listen as well as read.

i happpen to agree with some of teh posts i have read, pick a translation of teh bible that you understand. i personally like teh NLT (new living translation) the message is another one in everyday comom english that is good.

i woudl also agree with going church "shopping" trying out a few places to see which ones fit best with you. i woudl suggest goign to a church at least 2-3 times to get a really good feel about it unless you hated it teh first time.

i believe tht we are all hardwired with that knowledge of something bigger than ourselves, i am glad that you have decided to consider Christianity.
i wish you good luck in your journey.

I'm a christian and I can totally recommend it. Go for it.

Yep, and that just sums it up. Hopefully in years to come, people will just be looking back and laughing at the concept of religion.

Thats great be sure to read you Bible daily and pray.

Theirs also lots of good literature out there to brush up on certain subjects.

The bible has some good ideas in it yes. Its cool how fictional books can teach us a lot about life.

I doubt that will ever happen. Humanity will be extinct before they develop that kind of intelligence.