problems with his family
15 Jul 2009, 12:48 pm
I've known people like your husband. They drive me batshit... I get angry with them too.
I'm an Aspie afflicted with too many strong opinions. I get in people's s**t because of it. LOL Seems there's just no happy medium...
FiveEggsIn wrote:
That's a real problem for me. I actually like it when he disagrees and sometimes I've realized after the fact that I was picking a fight just to get him angry so he'd tell me where he stood. It isn't a healthy cycle. As the_wife said, actions speak louder than words. However, sometimes his words seem sincere in telling me that he wants to do something and doesn't understand why, when he's put in the situation, he doesn't do it. That doesn't last long as he changes his desires so he isn't in conflict instead of changing his actions.
I wonder if this isn't something going on with the executive function. If he seems sincere, maybe he is, but then the ol' "commander-in-chief" up in the brain goes fishing and fllow-through fails. Beyond notes and lists, I'm wonder what other techniques may be a useful work-around.
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Mostly I can tell from all the non-verbal communication. If his voice is monotone, his attention is on something else as he's talking, he isn't discussing but is trying to end a conversation, he isn't actively participating with me, he isn't looking toward me or touching me, his words are stilted or an exact repeat of my own, basically there is little to no original content and no appearance of being invested, then I know that he's just saying what he guesses I want to hear. There are certain phrases I've learned are only used in this way.
There's the sit and stare, hoping I'll fill the void with talk which he can then say he agrees to. I've learned when he's doing this that he isn't actually thinking about the conversation and has nothing original to offer. I used to wait days, weeks, or months giving him the benefit of the doubt and trusting that he would come through and do what he said he would, but I've been very disappointed by not heeding the actions which showed he wouldn't from the start. There's the contradict option in which anything I say is followed by, "No, I don't." or "I do, too." Nothing else, just three words to say I am wrong but no discussion on how he sees it or examples to prove me wrong. I know him and if he cared, he'd have detailed examples and would argue them and become upset with me. Then there's the natural urges call, which usually ends the sit and stare. He has to eat, sleep, or go to the bathroom but "forgets" to come back to the conversation as he said he would.
There's the sit and stare, hoping I'll fill the void with talk which he can then say he agrees to. I've learned when he's doing this that he isn't actually thinking about the conversation and has nothing original to offer. I used to wait days, weeks, or months giving him the benefit of the doubt and trusting that he would come through and do what he said he would, but I've been very disappointed by not heeding the actions which showed he wouldn't from the start. There's the contradict option in which anything I say is followed by, "No, I don't." or "I do, too." Nothing else, just three words to say I am wrong but no discussion on how he sees it or examples to prove me wrong. I know him and if he cared, he'd have detailed examples and would argue them and become upset with me. Then there's the natural urges call, which usually ends the sit and stare. He has to eat, sleep, or go to the bathroom but "forgets" to come back to the conversation as he said he would.
Well, it does sound like you've been observant, which is many points in your favor. And we can be horrible space-shots, I won't disagree with that. Aspies do have a hard time being interested in many things that others seem to be absolutely taken with... and vice versa.
Have you read and digested any of Gavin's blog? He's an Aspie dad of Aspie kids who is well-informed about this condition and writes some pretty good stuff about the difficulties of marriage and how he works with them...
http://life-with-aspergers.blogspot.com/
You might find something that will help you relate to your husband's internal landscape.
Sometimes the flat affect can be because we'ree actually listening very hard and the processing is taking all energy, but it's still in the undigested state in the brain, so we really don't have anything to say or add... it can take quite a while for it to assimilate, sometimes a day or two. Have you ever had him come back much later to some topic you thought was finished?
And if you're a fast and demanding talker, it can get very overwhelming very quickly. After a while, one just tends not to try and keep up.
Have you ever tried something along the lines of... "Tomorrow I'd like to talk with you about how we share housekeeping responsibilities. I'm feeling overwhelmed by all the chores and am wondering if you could help out more." and then set a time, write it down, post a note where he can readily see it.
And so it doesn't become aversion therapy, do it for the good things more. Things you know he enjoys... scheduling time for his interests, his alone time, evenings out, etc.
Giving a head's up may give him time to sort through his head and make some decisions. And maybe not. It's worth a try though.
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I've found that when he takes on his family's agenda, he becomes emotional and insistent about it. When he parrots mine back to me, it isn't because he's taken it on so he doesn't follow-through and remains apathetic. I sometimes get angry that I'm the one treating him as an equal and asking for his input and wanting to make him happy and I get apathy while a few women are using him for their self-serving agendas and actually plotting for months sometimes on how to manipulate him into what they want and they get it. The message to me is that the only way to work with him is to be a manipulative and conniving witch. And then I realize that if I were, he wouldn't mind at all. Then I get very sad and give up.
His family's agenda is familiar, he's had plenty of time to process it, assimilate it, etc. Yours is new, and so's your style. There may not be any buttons where you're pushing, so you'll have to work to put them in. But I encourage you to... I really respect that you want him as an equal.
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It is hard finding the balance between being explicit in my needs and trying to find out where he actually stands. If he's doing any of the above then I know the conversation is hopeless and I don't want to give him words to meaninglessly parrot back too me when I know he won't follow through. But then I argue to myself that maybe this time will be different, that he can't read my mind, and so on. But I've already told him the same thing numerous times and the issue isn't that he doesn't know what I want, it is that he doesn't want to do it. But I can't get him to say that or to say why or to tell me what he wants instead, he just insists that he does want to do it and will get around to it at some future date. When we're discussing needs and not wants, that's pretty hard to take and I still don't understand the thought process behind it.
I don't know how to get through and I miss the man I fell in love with. When he gets like this, I don't feel like he's a man at all. He has no opinions, no purpose, no values, no substance when he's like that and then I feel like anything I do is being like those witches, manipulating him or using him. He becomes nothing more than a paycheck and I feel dirty, like I'm selling myself for a house and car. I don't want to be that person but can't find any other way to keep my marriage together. I can't justify divorce and the trauma that would inflict on the kids, which would be especially horrendous with the family witches' involvement as he'd let them handle it for him. I don't want a divorce. I don't want a butler. I don't want a parrot. I just want a husband... I don't know what to do.
I don't know how to get through and I miss the man I fell in love with. When he gets like this, I don't feel like he's a man at all. He has no opinions, no purpose, no values, no substance when he's like that and then I feel like anything I do is being like those witches, manipulating him or using him. He becomes nothing more than a paycheck and I feel dirty, like I'm selling myself for a house and car. I don't want to be that person but can't find any other way to keep my marriage together. I can't justify divorce and the trauma that would inflict on the kids, which would be especially horrendous with the family witches' involvement as he'd let them handle it for him. I don't want a divorce. I don't want a butler. I don't want a parrot. I just want a husband... I don't know what to do.
It kinda sounds to me like he's verging on exhaustion... does he schedule transition time for himself when he comes home or is it straight into the family? I know when I worked full time, I was worthless by the end of the day. I'd want to just come home and collapse on the couch, read a book. You may be seeing cumulative effects of employment... he's tapped out.
We're looking into weighted blankets... they help calm over-stimulated nervous systems...
http://www.aspergerjourneys.com/2009/02 ... /#comments
Have you read "Counseling for Asperger Couples" by Barrie Thompson? I've looked at it and it has some very useful info in it, and it's respectful of both sides. I'd also encourage you to research and investigate executive dysfunction and how to work with it. I think you may find some more ideas about how to work with your mutual situation.
16 Jul 2009, 11:39 am
DonkeyBuster wrote:
We're looking into weighted blankets... they help calm over-stimulated nervous systems...
http://www.aspergerjourneys.com/2009/02 ... /#comments
http://www.aspergerjourneys.com/2009/02 ... /#comments
I'm reading and re-reading your post, taking it all in. I wanted to respond to this part first because it is the easiest. I am pretty sure my husband would love such a blanket. I would say that he has low sensory input, but dealing with it puts him in overload just the same. I know that he'd be out like a light if he had one. The blog writer said she slept for hours. I wonder if anyone has had one longer and if they eventually "catch up" and don't require as much down time.
I don't want to get too far away from the OP so I'll also say that I would be interested in the effects if such a blanket was used before and after a family visit and if he could handle it better and maybe even do what he says he wants to do while in their presence.
16 Jul 2009, 12:15 pm
FiveEggsIn wrote:
I would say that he has low sensory input, but dealing with it puts him in overload just the same.
There's a good diagram in that book that will help you understand why... imagine a rain barrel catching water (energy) with several hose spigots around the bottom. When a spigot is open, water (energy) runs out. When it's closed, water builds up. If you each have a barrel with the same amount of water running in, you automatically close off the spigots to regulate the amount of water going out. Your husband's spigots are all open, so the water level falls faster than the water comes in.
It's low input for you because your system automatically regulates the energy used to process by filtering out a lot of detail. With AS, the system doesn't regulate, so the energy just keeps flowing out til the level in the barrel is very low, then we shut down to replenish.
I've just been reading up on mirror neurons, and in the wikipedia definition, there's this statement under mirror neurons and autism... "Some researchers claim there is a link between mirror neuron deficiency and autism. In typical children, EEG recordings from motor areas are suppressed when the child watches another person move, and this is believed to be an index of mirror neuron activity. However, this suppression is not seen in children with autism."
Scientific verification of the filtering not happening.
The organ of the brain is a huge energy glutton, it consumes vast amounts of nutrients and calories to function. I think that our AS brains working at such high rates every waking hour is what is so exhausting... we can't shut them down, they don't filter, we just keep receiving, receiving, receiving. And trying to process it all... that seems to be automatic.
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I know that he'd be out like a light if he had one. The blog writer said she slept for hours. I wonder if anyone has had one longer and if they eventually "catch up" and don't require as much down time.
That'd be interesting to know. I know for myself, when I am not so overwhelmed by things I'm certainly more pleasant to be around.
It might be that coming home from work and having a bit of a lie-down for an hour would help him be more present... but I suspect you'll have to modify your expectations of interaction as well. Talk less, more quietly, and low key. And not expecting him to do any chores after a day at work... or not any non-routine ones. Doing the dishes, or helping with the laundry, and then spending the evening in quiet mutual activity... reading, lap work,... well, that's what we do in my house.
The spouse of an Aspie needs to not only be emotionally self-sufficient, but also develop an NT network outside the relationship so you get the emotional stimulus your system needs. A weekly ladies poker game anyone? LOL
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I don't want to get too far away from the OP so I'll also say that I would be interested in the effects if such a blanket was used before and after a family visit and if he could handle it better and maybe even do what he says he wants to do while in their presence.
It would be an interesting experiment... but I suspect energy levels is only one facet of that particular problem...
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