AS mens silence in regard to relationships with NT women

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OK. Got one right here. That's me. AS male ex-partner to an NT female.


And this is pretty much how it's turned out. She ended up depressed, anxious, and suffering physical ailments because of our time in a relationship.

Allow me to elaborate....

I am currently living with my ex-partner. She and I have been "together" for 5 years. We've been trying to figure out how to get away from each other for at least 3 of these years. A complicated financial situation keeps us under the same roof.

I am not kidding about the Cassandra Complex. She has become really depressed and anxious, as well as becoming sick far more often than normal over these past couple years. She often feels that I'm not there at all. She hates the look in my eyes, which she finds to be cold and vacant, as if there's no person inside of me who is looking out. We've had endless problems with communication and the expression and reception of emotion. She feels isolated, trapped, and deeply lonely.

I feel equally trapped, although not at all lonely or isolated. Indeed, being alone is something I would cherish at this point. I need my schedule and my environment and my life back... just as much as she needs hers back.

I've only come to know about AS in the last 8 months. Before that, I arrogantly assumed that her and everyone else was crazy for accusing me of creating problems. I thought that I couldn't be in the wrong, because everything that I did made sense in my head. I couldn't see outside of the AS framework. I didn't realize that I was hurting her emotionally, and making life very difficult for both of us.

Having really understood AS and what it means, I don't see myself in a relationship again for a long time. Not only do I feel incapable of starting or maintaining a relationship, but I feel as if it would only lead to my hurting the other person, and my feeling trapped and miserable. I need a long period of being alone to sort out what the past 5 years have really meant, and where my life can and should go from this point on.

My father very likely has AS himself, although he would probably never even approach the idea. He's semi-retired and done with life, in a sense. But his life and his relationships make perfect sense in the light of AS. His first wife (my mother) was a doting, hard-working, domestic, naive, suburban woman. She took care of my father and his needs, and accommodated his AS issues, without ever knowing that he was anything beyond a "typical male." He was emotionally distant, obsessive (about work especially), and had troubles taking care of himself. My mother commented on his eccentricity and his obsessive habits, but she just accepted it and dealt with it, quietly and unassumingly.

When my mom died of cancer in middle-age, my father was suddenly without a cornerstone in his support-network. He quickly remarried to a manipulative, domineering, domestic suburban woman. She told him exactly how to act, how to dress, how to eat, how to speak, etc. He thrived in this environment. She took care of him and told him how he should be, and he went out and worked and paid the bills. This woman also expressed a quizzical attitude towards my father, and proceeded to half-mock his AS traits by calling him "dopey".

Having realized all this about myself, and my father, I cannot say that either of us has experienced a healthy relationship. He has been the victim of a controlling NT woman, and I've suffered for years in my ignorance with an intelligent NT woman who just wanted me to be "all there".

I look forward to life on my own once again.

see some comments on the UPDATE page of unlearningasperger.blogspot.com - best wishes, JC

Probably because you'll be hard pressed to find a discussion about AS and marriage that isn't:



Groups dedicated to that are all, so far as I can tell, closed to AS contributers, or they'll kick out any AS person who doesn't bend over and accept the idea that he's an inferior being, that it's all his fault, and that his wife's suffering over his failure to meet her emotional needs is much more important than any suffering he may experience from needing some frickin' downtime and a home that's a safe place for him to be the autistic person that he is.

Given that there are very few places for AS men to discuss the issue in any practical/useful way. So why bother?

Well, here's your chance, right here on Wrong Planet, where you won't get kicked out for being AS. Spill all.

Oh, actually, my marriage is really great. We're both very happy.

But a couple of months ago somebody on Wrong Planet had mentioned these 'support groups' for NT wives of AS guys as being 'hate groups.' I got curious, and looked for some. They are appalling. I eventually did actually find one that would let me post. They were ever so happy to have an AS guy's perspective, and I wondered why there were so few AS posters. Until they told me it was 'back talk' to point out that it's not 'neutrality' for them to post about how Maxine Aston is helpful but to tell me it's not allowed for me to post about why she's a bigot. And recently kicked me off for having an argumentative 'tone' and referring to another member in the third person, which is appearantly a hideous social crime. When I do it but not when NTs do.

It was really very funny, but it's also sort of tragic -- they have a lot of stupid ideas about what AS is like and are busily perpetuating them.

Mine lasted 4 1/2 years, and was absolute hell.

One twist to the whole thing is that in the household I was raised in, communiaction was KEY. It was tough for me, but I always at least tried. Our family didn't have to worry about having to read eachother... we were all blunt about everything. My dad and I were the worst offenders when it came to being "too blunt" and my brothers learned to deal with it.

My ex, on the other hand, came from a family that yelled to get their point across, never communicated anything, and was very closed-off emotionally.

Realized within the first few months of marriage that she wanted nothing to do with me physically. This, coupled with the fact that she wouldn't communicate just made things tough. She expected me to be able to "read" her, though she knew that wasn't going to happen. Her borderline personality disorder didn't make things easier. One minute I could do no wrong, the next I could do no right. Over the years, what started as emotional and verbal abuse escalated. The last year, she would snap and resort to shoes, random kitchen objects, a TV tray (which I fixed afterward) and even chucked a clothes iron at me. After everything she had been drilling into my head over the few years leading up to that point, I felt I somehow deserved it.

I never laid a finger on her. I don't think I raised my voice even once.

After a few years... you start to believe what is yelled at you. I still have problems dealing with that, even though it's now several years into my past.

Damn, hypernoodle. That's dreadful.

I swear those Borderline Personality Disorder people seek out AS like bloody vampires. I think they figure that our relatively low interest in social stuff means that we really want to just devote our lives to them and their 'you and me against the whole world!' loopiness. And then are so furious when they discover that our disinterest is disinterest instead of a match to their hate and fear.

AS mens silence in regard to relationships with NT women

But seriously now folks.........

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I'm not a man, but this interests me as there seems to be a tendency to "demonize" AS men relationship wise. On this forum - as well as others I browsed - there are significantly more complains about AS male/NT female couples than the other way around and it really puzzled me. First I thought it had to do with the fact that NT women might have higher emotional needs than NT men, or maybe the tendency of AS women to dissimulate better. Society's expectations from men and women are different and that might also put AS men in a tougher spot.

I wonder how many people use the AS card as an excuse for a failed marriage, avoiding to take responsibility. I only know NT couples IRL and the complains women have about their partners seem to be basically the same - lack of communication and emotional availability, unwillingness to compromise or help around the house, showing too much interest in their career or hobbies etcetera. Since they are not diagnosed with anything, their wives think they're just selfish and lazy.

It just seems to me - judging from the couples I know - that most people don't really know that much about each other before they get married. Introspection is somewhat feared and so is exploring the other one's mind and heart - who knows what you might find there? I've often seen couple destroyed by what I saw as a small crisis - in these situations self control weakens, hidden thoughts and old frustrations tend to surface and people are shocked by what they find out. Not to mention the delusional attempts to change and transform your partner to fit an ideal image - one of the most damaging and painful things people inflict on each other.

It's sad that once the passion is wearing thin there's so little love left and aspies of all people should think long and hard before making a commitment - isn't there a saying about the odd foot that needs an odd shoe?

I gotta say, from my AS female point of view (I'm in my mid-40s), as you grow older, you get mellowed out and your AS characteristics do wane, that's what is bound to happen to a lot of people whether you are AS/ASD or NT..you know, they say "you marry someone when you need a nurse who takes care of you.."

I did read one of Ms Ashton's books. Quite well written, certainly it's an interesting read. Well, she's a woman herself isn't she? maybe it might be worth suggesting somebody like T Atwood to produce something which is pro-aspie male? (though his understanding of AS male according to his book, is "AS males need executive secretary" either it is wife or mother. lol

gotta say though, my relationships were disastrous so it's not just a gender thing (that of AS males). having said that a lot of NT get bad relationships too.

I'm getting married next week with HFA male who's currently living with his large collections/archives with few furniture..his old habit dies hard LoL

anyway, my only thing I need to say is, if AS males are a good provider to NT wife/gf, then that shows he cares enough about her welfare and it may be useful for NT wives to try to become more independent instead of expecting their husband to be emotionally articulate.

if both parties make effort, then there will be a mutual compromise to be made imho.

cheers,

Groups dedicated to that are all, so far as I can tell, closed to AS contributers, or they'll kick out any AS person who doesn't bend over and accept the idea that he's an inferior being, that it's all his fault, and that his wife's suffering over his failure to meet her emotional needs is much more important than any suffering he may experience from needing some frickin' downtime and a home that's a safe place for him to be the autistic person that he is.

I cant see anyone in this post that states or hints in anyway that an AS Human is inferior. I can only see humans who want to understand another humans perspective on life and relationships.
Our AS/NTish" relationship has broken down after 14 years, and I'm positive it's partly due to the recent discovery of his Aspergers. Until then I had hope that one day he would see that I'm not stupid, and that sometimes I have great idea's. I believed we would communicate eventually.
Our breakdown started 5ish years ago, until then I was central to his world, and as we shared the same interest (motorcycling) everything was great.We had similiar bikes and went touring a lot, we also both enjoyed sea fishing. I did get a little annoyed that he never believed me, but also found it amusing, I put his quietness down to shyness. Communication between us was not a problem. We got married (I proposed) and I felt loved, cared for and safe.
The pivitol change in our relationship was when he changed his bike to an extreemly fast sports bike. There was no bike available for me that could keep up (As I am short, choice in bikes is very limited). Then online, he started seeking people who had the same bike, I was no longer part of his special interest, and he prefered to tour with them and online chatting would take presidence over us, our home and our dog. Until then we would usually be doing/planning something together. His chosen friends were elitist, sexist and dominated by an extremely sexist alapha male.
In simple terms I was no longer part of his special interest. I do NOT blame him, he just outgrew me, so good for him really. Getting left behind is my problem, not his. (and nature for making me a shortie). I also had stressful periods that during the last few years. My father died, my mother developed Alzheimers, I was being bullied at work, then our wonderful dog died. Plus other dysfunctional family issues to deal with, all without support.. I developed shingles and deep dark suicadal depression.
Following his diagnosis I have done all I can think of to get us "back together". Through WP I have strived to understand the right approach. i.e. suggested analysing an odd reply, setting time aside for us, suggested using emails when he said he found it hard to talk, lft WP posts that reeflect our situation. All in a non threatening way, left emails of posts that reflect our situation. I have bought books and learnt as much as I can about AS, as I love him and want to stay together. Nothing has initiated a response. I have had therapy and know how to not critisise or place blame, apart from owning my own shortcomings.
I am at a loose end. I cant bear the thought of another year living like this. I am not a typical woman, and will only press once or twice, then give up. It's also me who seeks solitude and own space.Having tried everything I can only conclude that he is not interested in saving our relationship. I am really hurt and sad. I have had to come to this conclusion on my own. No feedback or discussion is a weird way (for me) to end 14 years.
I reiterate to the quote. I do NOT feel he is inferior in any way.

vee

I can offer a few observations about my own failed relationships and my one long term success.

I would imaging that many AS men are willing to accept much less than their perfect mate given the difficulty they might have in establishing a relationship with any woman. As a result, they form relationships with women that are likewise eager enough for a relationship to accept a match that is far from perfect for them. That was certainly the case for my first few relationships. I know for my sake and the sake of the poor women I had relationships with, it is best that they didn't last any longer than they did and we didn't have children together.

Lucky for me I eventually found a woman to whom I could relate and that likes me enough to put effort into keeping me. We got some marriage counseling after having been together about 7 years and married for 3 but before we had kids. That helped. The two most valuable things that came from the counseling were that I can remind my wife that the marriage counselor told us we need to remember to be kind to one another, and the counselor suggested my wife could hold up her hand like a traffic cop when she wants me to just stop talking.

You see, it is way to easy for me to be detached and analytical when we are having a problem. And I'm sure you are all already familiar with how verbose us Aspies can be. My wife on the other hand gets so emotional that she can't objectively think or talk about anything when we have an argument, so she has no hope of making her case. My wife tends to get the impression that I have no feelings because I don't react in an emotional way about anything and she gets frustrated when she can never get the upper hand logically, so she has had a tendency to resort to being very cruel some times in order to defend herself or to try to get a rise out of me.

Our relationship has also been most recently assisted by pharmaceuticals. I don't know what the general consensus might be in this community, but I am now wishing I'd have resorted to prescription drugs long ago. I've known I suffer the excess depression, anxiety, and some rather obsessive behavior that go along with AS for many years before I knew what AS is, but I always thought I managed it fairly well with diet, exercise, and so forth. I can see now that I am much more functional for my family while on the meds despite suffering a few side effects that take away from my own quality of life a bit.

I was telling my wife about this thread and she told me she has actually looked at a few forums devoted to NT women married to AS men. She said she didn't find them useful because they just seemed to be filled with women complaining about AS men. She was hoping to find insites into making the relationship better, but didn't find much that was useful.

Having dated a few NT women, the big issue is communication/miscommunication. They like to say that they enjoy the differentness of their AS partner but are unable to understand that people with AS really do communicate very differently and don't notice certain subtle cues (nonverbals, etc) that non AS might.

As far as losing sexual interest... eh. I think that's rubbish. If a woman I'm attracted to throws herself into my lap in state of partial or complete undress, I will notice and pay attention.

~Chuckles~

Sad but true. When I pointed out that a girl's bitching was annoying (because she did the same to me beforehand), she said that she was allowed to because she was a girl. It was mostly to be funny, but I found it disconcerting, because it's true.

As for the larger issue at hand, I tend to think it's too easy to blame everything on AS. If someone has a diagnosed mental health problem, then you're less likely to look at yourself as the problem, however unfair that may be.

Here, no, of course you don't.

I was talking about support groups for NTs married to AS people, not WP.

I essentially trotted off and created a new NT-AS relationship group after looking at those existing ones that I could see and finding them incredibly unfriendly to AS people, if they don't refuse us access entirely. Sub-areas of WP or other AS sites being an exception, naturally.