Do you argue with doctors?

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While it can be said that ASC thinking may latch onto details, sometimes to a fault, so can NT thinking can have huge holes in reasoning due to not seeing the details clearly enough. Neither side is inherently reasoning 'incorrectly,' and each side is more likely to catch the opposite side's mistakes.

And I think one needs to be very careful about de-legitimizing anyone's thought processes because of a medical label. If the theory you posit is used on someone then they can be 'incorrect', even if they are actually correct. It's like arguments about, say, women not really being able to understand politics (and not being able to understand that they don't understand).

As far as medical mistakes I've caught due to detail:

Cardiologist : "I've never seen anyone your age get a positive on that test, so I never give it to them."
Me : "I want it done anyway."
...he does the test, I get a positive...
Cardiologst : "Wow I never saw anybody your age get a positive on that test before."
Me : "(thinking, but didn't say) You said you never gave it to anyone my age before, so of course you never saw it. Duh."

His big picture thinking lead him to a total fail in reasoning. I used to think I was just missing something, until such things happened enough to cause me to realize that even ostensibly smart, educated people can make really strange errors in their thinking, and not know it.

Another example: my mother's systolic blood pressure being over 200mm Hg six weeks after having a brain hemorrhage (due to high BP). I bring in records showing the home BP measurements, and the nurse's measurement that day also showed it. The doctor did nothing. After changing doctors, all her BP meds were doubled, and her pressure finally came down below 170. Focused on a detail, yes, but a critically important one. I still have no idea what that first doctor was thinking.


"God is in the details - Whatever one does should be done thoroughly; details are important." -- Gustave Flaubert

Doctors think they know everything huh?

My mom once ran into a arrogant doctor when I was a year and a half. That doctor got recommended to my mother and got told he was the best doctor ever so she took me to him. Instead he pinned a label on me (autism) and said all these things about me and said I would be in a instution and I will never live a normal life or learn how to talk, etc. My mom just kindly thanks him for his opinion about what could be wrong with me but in her head she was thinking "Way to place a label on my daughter before I told you about her medical history you bastard" and took me out of there and never took me to see him again.

I don't think it was the label that upset her, it was him not listening to her about my medical history first before he placed it on me. Now if she were an aspie, she might have argued about the label by saying what my medical history is. That's what I would have done because I always feel I have to prove people wrong.

Well the label turned out to be a coincidence anyway. I noticed the irony of how another doctor thought I had autism and my parents kept the medical records about me and the word was mentioned in it. I think the difference is that doctor listened and then thought autism. My parents didn't walk out of that office with me after hearing that word again.

I've noticed how lot of doctors are always wrong. They always tell parents their special need kids will never do this or that and you know what, they always prove the doctor wrong by working with their kid and getting them help and they do it. My in laws got told my husband would never be able to read and they would have to color code everything, he have mental retardation and other things. But he did learn to read and he isn't ret*d and he learned to walk and talk, toilet train, feed himself, take care of himself but he did everything late.

Even my own parents didn't listen to my doctors when I was young. My mom said I would have been like a Nell if they listened to them. Lot of parents don't listen to their doctors about their special need kids. Instead they just have hopes and keep trying.

I got told by my therapist she doesn't think I should have kids because I have AS and my argument with her was "Lot of aspies have kids and they turn out to be fine parents, there are normal parents out there who turn out to be lousy parents." Then she said she maybe jumped the gun and shouldn't have said that. I even talked about lazy parents in my old neighborhood who let their kids run wild and be mean and the parents believed their kids lies because it was easier than doing their job and being the bad guys. I just wanted to prove her wrong but sadly I couldn't keep seeing her. That was the therapist that told me I was black and white.

People have always accused me of arguing and I find out they were right when I looked it up in the dictionary. It means to disagree so basically when I correct people or point things out, I am basically disagreeing what they say. My old boss used to tell me "Don't argue" when I protest or point out something. It was like I wasn't allowed to have my opinion or correct her or defend myself. I have been told by someone at my last job I would be a good lawyer. They always argue. I've been told online by another aspie I am good with arguing. My mom said I am good with getting my point across and I find ways and she likes that about me.

It's them who can't stand criticism or correction and they make it an aspie trait.
They sure don't like us so they discriminate us

I'm not saying that doctors are never wrong, nor am I saying that there aren't arrogant doctors. What I am saying though is very easy for someone to latch on to and focus on a detail or two that someone may have wrong but to still miss the overall picture. And IMO this is a classic aspie behavior.

The doctor doesn't just see you. He may see dozens, maybe hundreds of patients per week. Thousands of patients over the course of a carreer. He tries to make the best choices based on his schooling and practical, lifelong experience. He has to go with what his instincts & experience tell him, and 95 times out of a hundred he will be right. The other 5%? Well, that's life. He's only human. If you want certainty go to a computor instead of a doctor & even then you'd better make sure it's not running on Vista.

All I'm saying is I could see how a doctor would get upset if you want to argue with him. They go to school for what, 8 years? And then here comes someone who read a few books or googled a couple things on the internet & they want to tell the doctor that they're wrong? Yeah, I'd be annoyed too.

That always bothered me, that a doctor goes to school for 8 years and comes out with this superior Professional outlook, but someone else can go to school for 8 years and get the societal scoff. Or someone can live 8 years studying something intensely and be written out by society. Somehow 8 years in medical school makes them super human? I understand that they know more than I do about medicine but I won't take the bull outside the Doctor's Office. A medical degree does not preclude them to a different human condition.

I can't argue with that. It's just that the context of this thread was AS patients arguing w/their doctors about medical issues.

Yeah, tangent. I apologize

On that point, I was referred to a shrink once and he welcomed me into his office, asked me to sit down and literally said, "Now, I know exactly what's going on here. [This] medication is appropriate for your situation. You must agree to take it before we continue." I hadn't even said hello back or fully sat down in the chair! Immediately I explained to him I wasn't agreeing to anything without at least talking with him for more than one appointment. At which point he asked me to leave unless I reconsidered, trusted that he was the Doctor and knew what was going on and agreed to take the medication. I told him he was out of his mind. I wasn't seeing him to take medication. I was trying to find a working solution, taking medication was not an issue but I'd expect him to get to know me for 5 minutes before he said "he knew exactly what was going on with me." I stood up, left and needles to say, never went back. Shortly after I learned that people in the support community call him a "pusher".

Sounds like it's him with the problem. I have had my doctor prescribing pills to me before I got the procedure for my miscarriage and he explained to me why I'd be taking them and when I'd be taking them. I was asking him why why why and he answered them all. We need more of those doctors.

Definitely. Sounds like you have a good Doc

Personally, I have "fired" doctors that do not take the time to answer questions, or who treat me with disrespect.

An option that I think too few people realize they have.

Agreed!

I was talking to one of my online friends who is an aspie and she said it's a waste to argue with doctors when you can just walk out the door. That makes perfect sense. Why pay money to argue with a doctor? Just never go back to him.


I however argued with my shrink when I was 16-18 but only because I was forced to see him and when mom told me I didn't have to anymore because I was "Officially an adult" I stopped in a heart beat.

The thing I hate is when doctors don't seem to understand that there's a chance a patient may know a bit more about what's going on in their own body than any doctor simply because, well i'm in my body all day long and have been for as long as I can remember... when it comes to my body- i'm the expert. I may not know the text book term for what's going on but that doesn't mean I don't have a pretty good idea about what's wrong.

I usually get along better with Nurse Practitioners than doctors. They're more likely to admit they're not sure about something. To me that's a big deal because sometimes being good at something isn't about knowing all the answers but knowing that you can't possibly know all the answers and being willing to find them when you don't.

The other thing I hate is that if you know what's going on (or atleast have a good idea about what the problem may be) all of a sudden you're a hypocondriac and they regard everything you say as BS.

I agree, about we know more about our own body (and problems) as we know.

I'm on that notorious NHS (UK) which is good in some ways but absolutely awful in other ways (people can die from cancer because certain drugs are too expensive etc) you know NHS would be fine if you need infected tonsils removed but not if you got anything complicated..There are other awfulness in between "good" and "bad".

I personally don't like to argue but when you need to, you need to do it as best as you can, as calmly as you can. I have got a lot of anger over a neuro I had been seeing since this summer. I saw him privately because NHS/GP never gave me a fast track referral on NHS when I was suffering over many months. (they could have done easily, I got all the symptoms and eventually I complained to no avail)

then I saw the same neuro on NHS. it's money isn't it after all. when I saw him privately, he couldn't be any better. when I saw him on NHS, he couldn't even bothered to give me the prescription then and there (I know he was able to if he wasn't that lazy) whilst I was still sufferin badly and I had to visit GP surgery to get it.

I might be seeing him again only because it's free on NHS no matter how crap he acts on NHS but certainly am getting someone else (a specialist) sorted out in the meantime. As a self-diagnosed Aspie (waiting for an assessment with a long wait), I know far more about the condition and his letters didn't outline key issues which a decent specialist could have outlined as a matter of importance.

plus, I am a lot older these days. I haven't got the same Aspie rage as I used to but I certainly haven't got time or money to waste on medics who aren't perfect (almost perfect).

It IS true, some specialists are into Power and their Ego is so huge they often do a lot of things they believe they were absolutely right, when they are totally out of line which is a real problem and as a result patients had suffered more, refused treatment or had died unnecessarily. The problem is inequality between Powerful medics and Patients (or victims?).
Specialists/GPs performance/patients satisfactions should be much better looked at/scrutinized than they are now. These specialists Do seem to think they ought to be worshiped because of their Status, some remarkable research done, published on Lancet etc etc..

x x

Only if I disagree with them (and if so, then tactfully)

After 10+ years of having to be very proactive in getting help for ME/CFS....and having medicos ignorant of the reality of the condition.......I found I was constantly having to argue....find other doctors....do my own searches for the most recent medical research etc.... then presenting the doctor with the latest info.....YEP! You guessed it they couldn't be bothered to read it.



SOOOOO with ASD I've gone sideways.... ...found out where I could get a DX from Tony Attwood's site (he is 4 years booked ahead).... so I'm seeing someone recommended by him , who is also mentioned on the AWA site... in another state but not a long wait......


Recommended by the Clinic I'm due to visit to get a GP to set up a Mental Health Care Plan so I could claim back some of the cost of testing........

Decided upon going to a GP who instead of insisting on "KNOW ALL STATUS" was more accepting of patient self knowledge and then set up an appointment long enough to draw up the plan.


In cases like this it is best to have all the info ready and supply it to the doctor. There are ways of ascertaining which doctors are co operative ....... I now avoid the rest like the plague...when possible as I too am surely considered a "difficult patient " by many... just as I was considered a "difficult child" by my mother!! !! !! !!