Marriage getting worse and worse

Post Reply New Topic

I obviously can't give you any marriage advice (since I'm new to the whole relationship thing) but he sounds somewhat like me. It was only a few months ago that I suddenly went from an overgrown teenage boy to a man and I'm almost 30. I literally feel like a complete different person the past month or so. I had been told similar things for years (but nobody would come out and tell me I was extremely immature) and never really clued in until one day a light bulb went on in my head and I was a radically different person.

I'm quite surprised at the negativity I'm reading here. I'm sure if you were to talk to me two years ago many would have said I could never change but here I am! I was very slow to develop socially but once I started to develop, it happened very rapidly. I know at 25 as much as I loved kids I would have never been able to be a responsible father. Today, I have absolutely no doubt I am ready so that's my two cents.

ok. I'm male Aspie, been married 26 years, 4 children, marriage currently very good.

My advice;

1. realise deep inside he does want to love you. he does value the relationship.

2. realise he is young. very, very young. he will grow and mature. your challenge is to survive together until he does.

3. keep doing what you are doing; keep your side of things on the road.

4. discuss with him what are his jobs and which yours.

5. ACT VULNERABLE. men have an inbuilt trigger to care for vulnerable ladies.

6. do not do his jobs. just don't do them. hell eventually start to get it.

Let us know how it goes!
unlearningasperger.blogspot.co.uk

Exactly! I grew into the job - perhaps a little slower than a "normal" man might.

I'm a little disappointed in the angry women chanting "Dump him! Dump him!!" You don't know all the details and you could be responsible for destroying a marriage that still has a chance of being saved!

I really do hope your husband learns that he (and you!) need to change and work together, because the current situation absolutely does not work for you.
I hope you're able to communicate that to him!

I too believe he will change, but not within the same relationship. He has to start from scratch with someone who takes no sh** from day one and is consistent. With you, he'll just resent you and rebel, as you two are already too fixed in the mother-child roles with each other. Chances are he chose you precisely because he felt you were so responsible, to complement his irresponsibility.

There's a very tiny possibility that it may work out, but it's only if you throw him out (if it's his house, you and your son move out), destroy the whole dynamic your relationship is based on and start anew, in equal roles. Normally it's too late and I'm not sure he has that much love for you to go through all that it entails, but it's been known to work in some cases.

This, by the way, has nothing to do with structure. I have no structure at all, but I take care of everything, including very high responsibilities with 3 cats I raise as children and a colony of 20 strays that depend entirely on me, and not only for food - medical care, TNR, attention, etc. Yesterday I slept all day and did nothing when the house was a huge mess and so dirty. Then I cleaned and tidied all night. I do this and similar stuff very often.

You just hit the nail on the head right there. Role change is the key and the only way to force him to change his role is to change your own. It is inside of him (believe me), he wants to, you are not letting him. It is in every man to be dominant and take care of their vulnerable women, and that is what makes them happy so bring that out of him.

Stop being his mom and be his little girl. Besides this killing you, it is killing him that he is not 'the man'. He may have already given up b/c he is unhappy and he may be subconsciously 'lashing out'. Also when some vulnerable 21 year old comes around and lets him be the man he will experience a whole new high and you could lose him for good

My advice: Dumb yourself down big time, look up to him, ask him things to make him feel smart (even if you know the answer or really don't need his advice), submit to him

^^^ I'd happily accept a woman willing to be an equal partner! Especially in North American culture, many women (note: not all) are becoming the aggressors and dominators - having the final say in all matters, having their will done in every circumstance.

Gals still say they want a confident man with balls of steel, but it's very hard to do so with daily castration.

Sorry, but a man doesn't turn into a responsible bread-winner and father to his son because his wife dumbed down. In response to your thread on similar topic: trying to make yourself less than you are to fit in with the mediocre doesn't work. Been there, done that, speaking from painful experience.

I couldn't have said it better myself. This culture doesn't turn boys into men, it keeps them boys forever. So hard to find a "real man" b/c this society emphasizes the opposite. Even nerdy and business type guys can still be 'manly', at least head over their wives and families, and protective of their families. Everything is so twisted in the US!! ! When it comes to relationship there is only one way it is ever going to work b/c our instincts have elvolved this way- the man has to be dominant

Anyway, back to the situation w/ her husband. She needs to understand instincts. By "dumbing yourself down" I mean stop being the 'head' and at least pretend to let him be the head. Stop critisizing his work schedule, or how much he helps you out (maybe he feels it is the woman's job to raise the children while he works), and stop having an "I am going to leave you" attitude- in some cultures that is considered rebellion. There has to be a head in every relationship but in this one it sounds like you are not listening to him and he is not listening to you either... so who is going to give in?? Doesn't sound like he is going to any time soon?? Maybe the one who want to save the marriage will give in??

Though at the same time I know it is not good to hear you are not functioning as well now being married and having a family and it sounds like you really do need help w/ all of the responsibilities no matter who it is that helps you. That is a tougher issue. Having ASD myself I will not dare venture into having children.. and admittedly know nothing about kids so I can't offer advice there

Thanks for all of the advice, everyone. I understand what you all mean by acting vulnerable, and "dumbing down" - but I sincerely doubt that anything healthy can come out of pretending to be someone that I'm not. If I change my behavior, that might work for a short time, but when I want to go back to being myself - I believe it will only prove to not be a long term solution.

That being said, I am naturally vulnerable much of the time. Trust me when I say that I do not go around acting like the man of the house. I have very conservative values, and my favorite TV show is 19 kids and counting - so I very much believe in men being the "head of the household" and I believe that my behavior tends to reflect that. Especially lately since I have had all of this pressure put on me. My husband does respond to this, but only in ways that he would appreciate if he were in my shoes. For example, he really likes back rubs if he's stressed out. So, if he see's that I'm stressed out, he'll come rub my back. I've explained to him countless times that it's very sweet of him, but it isn't helping me. I even had him read "the 5 love languages" so that he might come to understand that "touch", while it may be his "love language" is not everyone's. He seems to understand in theory, but not in application.

Dunno. ...not that our marriage is anything resembling a model...but...discarding the concept of fairness and accepting and planning around our differences has helped as much as anything else - a lot of things can be worked around once you accept that they won't change. Of course, they may not be worth working around...

I had to accept that my wife could interact with children in only very limited amounts, requires outside structure, and can't pick up after herself, wake up on time, communicate coherently, or remember to bathe. Accepting this was difficult for me. I am still trying to accept that she can't seem to check the appointments set in her cellphone.

So, our child is in preschool a lot, and my wife spends time with our child at preschool, in a structured environment, we have maid service and some dirty rooms, and I just speak up when the smell becomes problematic (preschool seems to be helping here...yay!!).

On the bright side, she is able to watch our child a few hours a day, occasionally put our child to bed, and buy groceries.

It can help to ask people what they can actually do. If they're willing to do stuff (like back rubs), but are doing it wrong (like giving back rubs), then sometimes speaking up and asking them to do something else, and then praising the heck out of them works. OTOH, if you need verbal comfort and reassurance, he may need a lot of help figuring out how to do that properly - and will probably perform better if praised for very qualified successes. That's been a real problem in my marriage. It can also help to be pretty patient - let him set a time to take care of duties xyz - my wife will often order for me well before I've decided.

The other thing that has helped is to figure out the major chores and then list who actually cares about them. As much as possible, divide them up that way. When that leaves too much on your plate, hire someone to do the work and economize in other areas. And find a book on setting boundaries - for example, Boundaries (Townsend). Also, it helped a bit to differentiate between necessity and my preferences for doing things. ...food on the table and a place to live qualify as necessities... ...a lack of vomit in the sink or pee on the bathroom floor don't.*

--Argyle
*I never would have guessed that women with delicate stomachs would consistently issue from both orifices.

Thanks for your advice (didn't want to copy/paste the entire thing and take up tons of space with it) - It sure sounds like you have an understanding of the type of situation that I'm dealing with here, and it's so comforting to hear that you've learned to at least function in your marriage. I think that your right about discarding the concept of fairness and planning around differences, and definitely right about hiring help. Of course, we won't be able to do that until we can sell our house and downsize to something cheaper - but at least having the idea in place is a starting point. Paying for daycare and occasional lawn-mowing assistance has been a godsend, and it certainly has helped our marriage because at least I'm not frazzled and angry at my husband while I push the lawn mower around.

Maybe instead of thinking in terms of "dumbing down" how about more along the lines of ALLOWING HIM TO LEAD (if he can/will, that is.)

I'd have made a fine leader of my family if I hadn't had a forever-rebellious mutineer (and her saboteur mother) fighting me for control and dominance every step of the way! How ironic that she dismissed me as weak simply because I couldn't (or wouldn't) overpower her need to dominate. I'm not even sure what COULD have overpowered her... short of abuse - something I vowed I would never do.

...
I'd better go back and read the original post to see what hubby's big shortcomings were... Okay. You hate the fact he does what he wants where you need rigid routine. You resent it as an interruption of your routine and because you see routine as "grown-up" and unstructured as "childish".

Is he even aware of this? He might not realize how big of a problem this is for you... that you're very close to taking these strangers' advice to "dump his ass".

Other than forcing him to meet your need with threats to hurt him by leaving, etc., is there some compromising middle ground you can both meet in? I sure hope you can have that uninterrupted, serious conversation before your resentment becomes hatred and saving the family and relationship becomes impossible.

Good luck!

At least you can see that he does love you and is trying to show it. And it's good that you're showing understanding of what he's thinking, even though it isn't what you want.

It reminds me of my old girlfriend. Whenever she was upset I would try to comfort her with a hug and so on, but that didn't help her at all like it would me. She eventually broke up with me, and in retrospect I can understand many of these problems. But she sometimes tried to explain them at the time, though she was usually somewhat vague about it - I guess she was trying to be tactful, but what she was saying was so counterintuitive to me, she would have had to say it a lot more plainly for me to understand it at the time. As it was I can only understand what those conversations meant in retrospect.
From how loquacious you seem to be, I'm guessing what you want is verbal communication. And that can be hard for many of us - I often knew on car journeys that my girlfriend would want me to talk, but I couldn't think of a thing to say. So yes, he may understand it, but just find it too hard unless you start him off. (Since conversation is largely an unconscious ability, it would probably help his brain to improve this ability if you gave it some positive reinforcement by making a special effort to give him some touch when he talks? Or agree together that since you need different things, try to do both those things together?)

Lady Katie, as one of the only people on this forum with the capacity to realise that there are two sides to every story and that your husband may not necessarily share your point of view or appreciate how exaggerated you portray him as a terrible husband and father, I would like to say something (perhaps even on his behalf)

When I read your first post I really got the impression that you struggle with being controlling over an obviously more naive person (people usually don't come out and tell a therapist "I was lying".. do you think perhaps it was you who got him to say that?). You admitted the few things that you do not control but he does (his work schedule, his household chores, his routine...) drive you insane, that you experience strong anger and resentment when he does not do what you tell him to around the house, and that you have developed a routine for you and your son that you have admittedly left him out of. I believe you are not being sensitive to the fact he feels controlled by you and he began leaving himself out b/c he got so used to you 'taking over' everything in the first place. I think when he goes out and walks in the park all by himself that you should drop everything and join him, and bring your child along...maybe talk to him and try to be sensitive to him during that time

Yet, "argyle" came out and told you that you need to be even MORE controlling. I don't think being your husband's mom ("setting schedules" for him and giving him "verbal reassurance" and "praise") is necessarily the answer although I agree in argyle's own unique situation it has worked. If your husband were not functional enough to tie his own shoe laces a clever lady like you would not have married him.

I agree with "Bluemax". Even though I have never been married/divorced I still have the capacity to understand that "I am going to divorce you", well "them are fightin' words" and what they really mean is "I am going to take our child and you will never see him again so do everything I say or else..." I honestly can't say I "know" the situation b/c I don't, and I am not saying you are a bad person, but I am just interested to know if he shares your views about himself

...sorry - I'm somewhat verbose and often unclear and sometimes wrong.

For conversation, this seems to be a common issue with male Aspies and maybe just males in general. One successful trick a couple we know tried - play books/lectures on tape. Her husband would basically just sit there with a blank mind and no small-talk. Six hour silent car-rides irritated her. Once the books/lectures were playing, they'd have interesting conversations.

I tend to look at pragmatic scheduling/chore division as taking responsibility for getting my own needs met. Sure, I could just hope that my wife would pitch in. (not gonna happen). I could lean back and wait for my wife to pick up the slack. (tried this, got tired of the dog excrement matting the carpet) I could agree to split the chores evenly (my half got done...hers didn't...she said the division was unfair...and pitched a fit when I offered to swap.) I could also just give up. (but hate walking on dog excrement) Or, I could ask my wife what she'll actually do - leave her to do those portions - do the things I'm willing to to/care about, pay for the things I'd rather pay for, and not bother with things that I don't care about and that she's not willing to pay for or do. (Eg, hanging her laundry.) I do feel a bit of amusement every few months when she runs out of clothes, whines, and then gives up and brings some of her clothes inside.* It would probably be pretty reasonable to try all of the above and see how they go - your husband may well react differently from my wife.

Dressage is right - it is important to avoid being his mom. OTOH, agreeing on a schedule isn't being his mom - that's just being reasonably well-organized. Reminding him constantly throughout the week - is being his mom. I'd avoid that. Reviewing how the schedule actually worked in practice and then making changes - is just being reasonably well-organized. The most frustrating part, for me, is the way my wife will agree to any fair schedule with no resistance, fight me if I assign myself most of the chores, and then absolutely fail to follow through. The schedule review serves 2 purposes. First off, you'll be able to recalibrate your expectations based on what your husband actually does and plan around that. Expect iteration. Second off, he'll have a better understanding of why you'd like to spend money on XYZ. The point isn't to change your husband, the point is to get through life with a lower stress level.

Regarding praise, eh, simple relationship maintenance and communication. There's enough frustration in any relationship that making a point of having positive interactions - particularly when your S/O does things you like - is a good idea. The only purpose of constant criticism is to drive your partner away from you.

Regarding rigidity, you seem rigid - and it probably is how you cope with the world - so asking you to give up the rigidity seems impractical.** Instead of trying to merge two very different lifestyles (not gonna work, usually doesn't for NTs, let alone Aspies) - I wonder whether or not you could make a different arrangement. It sounds like your husband isn't willing/able to provide any sort of reliable scheduled support. (Ask him first.) If you free up your schedule, you could set aside some chunks of time where - if he was around - you could tag along with him? preferably out of the house and away from anything you see as a duty - and if he's not around on a given day - amuse yourself with a hobby. Also, when he's around, just ask him for help with XYZ and leave - I'd be grateful for an unpaid babysitter who dropped by randomly.

From watching my mother, rigidity is a small problem until you combine it with unrealistic expectations. It may be easier to let go of perfection than rigidity. Unless your husband is a negative contributor, he probably brings something to the R/S. It helped to prioritize. I'd love it if our child could attend karate lessons while I'm at work, or eat cooked meals, or be bathed by someone other than me. I'd be dancing if there weren't plates of moldy food left on every flat surface when I get home from a trip. It'd be even better if our child's mother could do something other than plop our child in front of the TV. Heck, bathing before meeting our friends is something I'd kind of expected. But, our child loves mom, and she reads to our child occasionally, and buys groceries, and plays with our child in preschool. Oh well, except for the fighting, probably better than divorce.

--Argyle
*If she feels strongly about it, she's always welcome to negotiate a chore list and actually follow through on it.
**Y'know, I sympathize. My mom feels physically ill if there are people in the house and she's not fetching things and ensuring that everything is perfect. The only way I've ever gotten her to sit down (even if she's working on no sleep) is to leave the house. She knows it is 'odd', but will never be able to stop herself.

The thing that bugs me sometimes is that a lot of people (maybe more women than men) go into marriage expecting to merge 2 lives, share the burden, and generally act as a team at all times. Then, when their teammate doesn't mind-meld with them, they feel disappointed, demand unrealistic changes, start fighting, things get worse, and they end up divorcing.

The reality is that, if they'd started out expecting to have a roommate they actually loved who didn't sponge off of them too much and offered free sex, and made arrangements to have happy lives without depending on their spouse, they'd have been happy with a really positive arrangement.

Or, I might be a bit odd.

--Argyle