Now that you know... are you harder or easier on yourself?

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I was told I was selfish for much of my life, still am. But, the fact is that once I became determined to just be me as I was and not care, I was a much better person who could accept that others were just the way they were as well. I could accept them better and even help them out when they needed it. Dh has to watch me, because I don't have a good concept of money, it being a manmade construct and having no real worth, so I have a tendency to want to give it to whoever I think needs it. He thinks it's a manmade construct, but he has plans for it. He tries to keep an eye on that for me.

I remember when we were first together, he would say, "You don't know the "S" word." He meant share (he certainly didn't mean sex because any more of that and I probably would have killed him!). He said that because I would never ask if he wanted something if I got an ice tea (back then I drank ice tea non-stop). He came to just accept that I never noticed. AS did explain that one to him, but very little else. He just thought I was missing the nuturing gene. My brother thought my second X wasn't fully formed. I always thought I was who I was, living in my mind and having a great life.






I remember after I took my SATs, they wanted me to go into an Astrospace career because of my scores. I think they were ignoring the fact that my math scores were in the 20th percentile nationwide. I told my counselor I was going into writing. He gave me the statistics on success in copywriting and worse, creative writing. I told him I was selling my writing, I was going to go live off Fran's dad (Fran was my best friend back then). It was a good plan. Fran's dad was a trust fund kid with five houses that he would "visit." He had artists and writers living in them for free. It was a great plan (especially for an Aspie). Anyway, advantage of a small town, he knew me so he agreed it would work. He even helped me get all my paperwork to get into college for that degree. I did have to listen to the whole, I'm not responsible and how would I live if Fran's dad died. Blah blah blah. Of course, dh came along and my family and the high school counselor thought he was salvation. Hallelujah! Someone to take care of the selfish, irresponsible kid.





I still think dating is easier for Aspie women because NT men don't really look at personality at first, they see the visual. And men don't notice much to be honest. I don't give them high points for thinking about true compatibility. Other things are in control of those decisions. That's not as true of NT women which is why Aspie men have a harder time (at least I think so). On the other hand, Aspie women tend to get used (we aren't marriage material in the end for some men). I'm sure that's why I dated, Chuck. I certainly was never a good date.

I wouldn't give up. I write all the time and do space puppy. If they had known you better, they would have picked a better wife. There are eccentric NT women out there who wouldn't care. Look at Blessed (not picking on you Blessed), she has her own interests that are alone interests. Dh is like that. He's very, very quiet and does his own thing much of the time. He reads a lot, does algorithms for fun, stares at leaves growing on plants. He takes his socializing elsewhere for the most part. (Except for pushing me into the occasional luau which just about freaked me out.) It can work, but the person picking for you has to know what they are doing. Your ex-wife would probably be the best one. My ex-boyfriend found dh for me, told him he was perfect for me and set it up. He did know what he was doing. My dorm mates did not. They were picking men they would like instead of men I would like.

Some people can understand when you freak out when your touched or you stare into space for an hour or more. They are rare, but they exist. Oh and dh hates suburbia and I've met women who have. Next time marry a tech head or a scientist.






LOL Well if you had walked in and announced at eight that you didn't care what they thought about anything, you were going to your room until you were eighteen and they were to live their lives and let you live yours in peace - you might have been sent to the loony bin. I'm suprised I wasn't. The odd thing is that I did that and told them I was never having children (or getting married because it was a stupid social convention that no longer made sense), but none of them were surprised or didn't believe me. They were only surprised I got married, although happy that I was someone else's problem. I think it's very telling when you make announcements like that and people are not surprised and believe you. It's a big sign that you are very different and they know it. Frankly, I think NTs always know we are different and only get more confused and irritated when we pretend to be NT. If we just tell them our brain misfires, they get that and it explains a lot to them. They don't get insulted as much because they start to see that you really do not even see their facial expressions or get what they say. At least it's so for me. Some will explain things and that's okay. We all find our way in one way or another.

I still think the only thing pretending gets you is more confused and more angry NTs because you still don't get it and they don't understand why not. It's just me, but that's my coping mechanism. At least they know when they get the deer in the headlights look that it's nothing personal.





Or as my boss says, you go home after work, plug in and recharge.

No worries! I like being an example of hope?! My idea of a great date is walking around in the woods (river bottom) here. I would rather go camping than stay in a hotel and don't even get me started on Suburbia! I know there are times Hubby forgets I exist, but I am equally guilty of that. I'm not to sure if I like how happy he is that I found this site and the people because he may never see the need to talk to me again, but c'est la vie. Maybe I can start my own harem of Aspie men!!
Chuck, dare I ask about the bats in the fridge and the horses leg? I have boiled the bones of various animals but that is because my son was constantly bringing them home. And the snake in my Mom's flour bin...well, same reason as the gophers in her washtub, I didn't want them to leave the house. (Who knew gophers could jump so high?)

Tales Of Money and Partners:

I love your insights Zanne! I wanted to comment on this part, because I have the same "problem". Money has never meant anything to me. I lived on the street for a time, and did survival training in the marines. Can and sometimes do live minimalist without concern or problems. It just freaks everyone else out.

My wife wanted to be a pharmacist, so I paid her way through school. Helped her study. When she graduated I told her I was bored in pharmacy and was going to go into med school, get a PhD and do research. She said, "Let me get my doctorate in pharmacy first, then I'll help you go through. But I don't want you to come with me, I need to find myself and need some space." (I understood that - wanted some myself ) I wanted to sell our house and move into a small apartment, as I was going to have to pay the mortgage, plus her apartment and all the other school expenses in Lexington, Kentucky, plus her psychiatry care, but she didn't want to sell the house. So I switched to a night pharmacy job so that I could work every other week, and take on a second job.

We never had sex. On our "honeymoon" she seemed very strange. Was very stiff when I touched her and said "Shhhh! Don't move!" I froze and asked if she had heard something. She would just freeze. I would ask her what was going on, but she would never tell me. So I recommended that she see a psychiatrist (figured she had been raped or molested). She started seeing two different psychiatrists two sessions weekly, which went on throughout our whole time together (7 years). They would not include me in the sessions, so I never did know what it was all about. But I paid for all of that too.

My night pharmacy manager was a Bahamian named Gus, who had been a liquor store owner in Chicago. He was 10 years older than me, and until he died 4 years after we met, he was the best friend I ever had.

The week prior to my wife's graduation in Lexington, the school sent out invitations to all the spouses of the married students to come to an "appreciation picnic". All the graduating students would be there. My wife called and told me there was no need for me to come, she knew that I was busy working. I told this to Gus, as I had everything else.

Gus said, "You know your wife is f***ing someone else don't you?" I said "No she isn't! We don't even have sex!" Gus said, "You mean in da two years she been gone you haven't been foolin' around?" I said, "I mean, in my entire life, I have never had sex." Gus said, "Oh, man! You just paid for the world's most expensive hooker!" We both laughed our asses off. He said, "Listen, you go to this picnic. Un-announced. She not to know. Understand? You will see. She foolin' around. This picnic informal? You go, wear a tanktop. Show them arms you got. "

So I went. I arrived early, and got myself a seat at one of the long pavilion picnic tables. It started filling up. No one knew me. I didn't know anyone. The talk turned to a group discussion of my wife and her boyfriend Tom. And how wouldn't it be funny if her husband showed up. "I hear he's a marine - must be dumb as a rock!" "He must know what's going on! I guess he doesn't care." I laughed with the rest of them and put in my two cents worth: "Maybe he's just a nice guy who doesn't have a clue?" "No one could be that clueless."

My wife came in with some guy. His arm was around her shoulders.

They walked up to the table and everyone said, "Hi _______! Hi Tom!" My wife was all smiles. She scanned the table. Spotted me and froze. I was all smiles. She tried to make a recovery, then stammered to the table: "Everyone, I'd like to introduce you to my husband Chuck."


Now, I wish it would have been possible to take a picture of the face of every single person seated at that table at just that instant, because THAT, my friends, that right there, was a Kodak moment.


I got up and gave my wife a hug. Raised to my full height and turned smiling to shake Tom's hand. He stood a head taller than me, but when our eyes met he looked like he was about to s**t in his pants. When each person left to get a second plate of food, they seated themselves at a different table. Soon It was just my wife and I alone at the table, she asking me what I had done.

I told my wife that night that I could see that she was happy with Tom, and that I wanted a divorce. She fumed," That's just like you! Abandon me now, when I've been invited to get a cancer specialty degree at Emory! How could you?!" I said, "Tell you what, you go on to Emory, and I'll wait to divorce you when you finish. Don't want you thinking I abandoned you." So I paid for Emory, bought her a car for graduation, paid for the divorce, handed her the house, and all our combined investments. I took a giraffe my dad had carved me, and a quilt that my mom made, and left with my freedom.

I figure I got the best end of that deal.

Afterward, I got a small apartment, and at various times took in different homeless people, including: a one-eyed table dancer and her heavy metal singer husband from the band The Beast; a hitchhiker who had held a gun to my head; a young couple and her sister, and his brother, and a couple of their friends; a 300 pound transvestite named Andy; etc. But those are stories for another day. I gave them all money, and put several through rehab.

I live in a small 1200 square foot house with a bed, a drawing table, an easel, a computer and a computer desk. And lots of books.

So when I was diagnosed, my psychiatrist told me that, erm, Chuck, we've got to get a handle on your money management skills.





No, my dear Zanne, don't think I will.




I do recharge at home alone. I thought living in the woods would clue people in that I'd like to be left alone "thank you very much". But people kept coming by. So I went to Goodwill and bought the biggest pair of worn-out work boots I could find. They must be size 22. I set them outside the front door. Then I went dumpster diving and collected a bag full of empty beer cans. I scattered them all around the deck. Then I posted two signs. One says: "Trespassers will be shot. Survivors will be shot again." The other says: "Marine sniper. You can run, but you will die tired." Downstairs, in a chair that you can see from each window, and both doors I made a dummy that looks very lifelike. And he's HUGE. and there's a sawed-off shotgun across his lap. And a chainsaw at his feet.

Now, even the church people never come by.

I was friends with Dr. Mckracken in the mammology department at the University of Tennessee. He showed me how to put bats in hibernation mode so that they could be studied, and cared for afterwards so that they wouldn't be harmed. So I nursed a couple back to health that had been harmed by kids with tennis rackets.

The horses leg (a front leg - weighed 40 pounds!) I was keeping to make a mount of the bones for Dr. McKraken's collection as a gift in return for letting me participate in the dissection of an elephant. But it ended up missing, and I never found it. ???

Oh,my.Chuck,our circumstances are very different but I can relate to the perspectives and attitudes you just expressed in your life-stories.And I'm very impressed by the "advice" being shared here.

ADD alright!! Yep,yep,yep!

I need to start an "ask Chuck obscure questions" thread. I would vote you most interesting at the moment, followed closely by Zanne!

Chuck,

I love the aversion methods you use. I have the same problems with people showing up no matter how far away I move. When I left dh for awhile, people bothered me so much that I hung voodoo dolls on the door and in the trees around the house. That took care of it.


Zanne

does that approach work for office hours? (i wonder O.o?)

This is an extraordinarily useful and insightful thread. I can relate to many of the experiences described on it, even though of course my individual circumstances differ markedly. Yet, by looking for the similarities rather than the differences, I think we can gain a better perspective on ourselves. Thanks, Chuck and ZM (and the others).

Dear Sedaka ,

If avoidance is the best you can do in certain situations, and its working so far for you, then that is fine. (So that you can have time to think of alternative courses of actions). Eventually, when you feel brave enough, or daring enough, or "what-the-hell" enough, try a new tack in that situation and see what happens. Something better? Something worse? No difference? For me, life is an experiment, and I'm a blind man tapping with a stick that's broken off at the handle, and I'm unaware of it. So I run into a lot of things, and get banged up a lot. But I learn a lot in the process. Maybe aversion IS the best answer. Sometimes you DO improve. Sometimes you DON'T. Only time will tell you the answers.

I beat my head against the wall for over 30 years trying to learn how to type, took classes, tried DVDs. I have improved a little - from about 3 words a minute to about 20. But this is about the best I will ever do.

But you do martial arts, as do I. I sucked at first. Now 30 years later, you'd never want to mess with me. Probably the same for you, eh? But starting, did you know that you'd do so well?

Some things you'll get better at with practice. Other things you won't. There's no way to know. So try anyway.
30 years later, if you still suck at it, chalk it up as "not one of my strengths". But your real strength will be "I always give everything my best effort".

Chuck,
Hitchhiking down from Washington State one time, I hooked up with another woman that had left her husband who had been running around on her and we caught a ride from a guy towing an old restored car with it packed full of household stuff. he was driving down to California because his wife had started going with his business partner up in Idaho and he had had enough and took his stuff and left. We all told our tale of woe( yeah, me too) and sorta just sat in silence as the miles rode by. . . although we could not figure out why someone wouldn't want to have a loving and faithful mate by their side, we all though we got the better end of the deal.


I loves ya, honey!
Merle

Last edited by sinsboldly on 12 May 2007, 2:49 pm, edited 1 time in total.

My wife called me out of the blue about 4 years ago. If I'd have had hair, it would have stood straight up. She had been to a "couples weekend seminar", had "gained some insight", and "ten years after our divorce, I'm no longer angry at you" and "I finally understood that I may have been part of our problems" and "would you like to start over and try again?"



I told her that she shouldn't be hard on herself, that I was sure that 99% of all of our problems had been my fault, that I was glad that she had finally (?) let her anger go, but, no I'm working so much I wouldn't have time for a relationship with anyone. I wished her well and a happy future and hung up wondering, "...eh?"

But I never held a grudge against her or felt angry (I directed that at myself) because:

1. I never should have married in the first place. (But I didn't yet have a fully developed prefrontal cortex, and was unaware that I was unaware of other people, relationships, and myself).
2. I should have picked my own spouse.
3. I never should have married just for the reason that other people wanted me to.
4. I had ignored my own "gut feeling", which I now trust completely, that told me not to marry her.
5. I had ignored the warnings of a complete stranger, a Wendy's drive-thru cashier:

I had driven around all night. My wedding was to start in 2 hours. I hadn't shaved, looked like hell. I pulled up to the drive-thru window and asked the cashier for the biggest ice tea she had.

She said "Oh honey, you look terrible! What's wrong?"
"My wedding is going to start in 2 hours, and I don't think I want to be married."
"Then DON"T get married!! ! I'm serious! Don't do it! Just drive! Drive! Get the hell out of here and just go!! !"
"But I just can't have her standing up at the altar, me not showing up, wondering what's up... and everyone bought gifts and are here to see us, and..."

Another cashier stuck her head out the window and said, "Uh uh, don't do it man!"
The first cashier came running out to my car with the ice tea. She said "Let me in! We'll just go! Come on! We'll head for the ocean! You can't DO this!! !"

She had me laughing so hard! I thanked her for her advice, gave her a big tip, went home, cleaned up, and divorced 7 years later, having deserved every bit of what I got.

Moral of the story: NEVER, ever ignore the advice of a Wendy's drive-thru cashier. EVER.



(love your cat/toilet paper roll avatar Merle!)

that passage was refering mainly for when i teach... depending on the interaction required for the lesson... sometimes i feel like i may be coming across as if i don't know what im doing... and it's just that aspie issue of the interaction itself.... i know i may never improve there... am just glad my teaching days are coming to an end!

woohoo RAs!! !! !! !! !

My sister teaches at a nearby college. She has a PhD in psychology, and is the director of the department. She's autistic/Aspie/ADD. Everyone wants to take her classes because she's funny. She transposes her words, freezes up when her eyes meet any one else's, forgets where she was going mid-sentence, gets stuck trying to find a word...

She tells everyone on the first day that she's like this, she embraces it, and they will have to too. She says "Sometimes it will seem as if I don't know what I'm doing, and maybe I don't, so it will be up to you to figure that out for yourselves". She smiles and explains "If I get stuck searching for a word, you'll have to throw it out for me, or I won't be able to continue". So later, when she does get stuck they start throwing out random words: "Banana!" (she shakes her head no) "Swimming pool!" (no) "Chihuahua?" (no) "Long-legged Frenchman wearing a green beret going for stroll along Champs-Elysees? (she looks up into that student's eyes, freezing completely, the class laughs, she gets out her ping pong ball rifle and attacks everyone.....

She makes it all into a game and they love it, and have to pay attention to help her out.

Hope you learn to have fun with it!! !

That is brilliant.