Power relations unawareness - an aspie trait?

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There are a lot less "good ones" in that regard than there are mediocre ones who won't stand for being undermined. As with anything else in life, there is a balance to be maintained. You may not feel it reasonable to respect the boss' boss' status simply because of his position. Do you respect his status when it gives him the authority to sign your paycheck? That's a part of his position - compensating you for your work, promoting you for your merits/achievements - and you have to respect his status when he's a PITA as much as you do when he's rewarding you. If you don't want to play the status game when it benefits him he's not going to play it when it benefits you.

It is possible for an aspie to learn social/professional networking. I have and I'm actually very good at it. To be honest, it's a balance between proactive professionalism and a "fake you" - a similar "fake you" to the one you put on display in social gatherings. This "fake you" is for professional environments, though, and is very much about recognition of heirarchy and maintenance of contacts (another tough one for aspies).

I completely agree with you. That's why I hate corporate America. Because I have to be a "fake me". And I cannot tolerate pretentiousness in anything or anyone. But it's the only way to get ahead or stay afloat in a professional environment. My long term goal is to be completely self-supporting. (Or hit a lottery. lol)
That way, I can fire my client if things aren't going well. Yes, I have a long way to go yet.

I worked in hell for almost five years with a general manager who was an unbelievable egotist. He was NEVER wrong, even when he was completely wrong. And he had no respect for the employees. None. He and I bumped heads several times, but I was doing my job so well, he couldn't find a sufficient lie to fire me. Why didn't I quit? There was no place else to go at the time - and I was constantly looking. (That opportunity literally fell in my lap, though, and I am much happier today.)

As long as they sign your paycheck, you have to keep them happy. The trick is in maintaining your self-respect at the same time.

There's another balance to consider - a dickhead is a dickhead. Not every difficulty you have in your life is because you're on the wrong planet. This guy could easily be dicking everyone else around too.

I had no idea there was a social hiearchy. I've heard about it on animal planet, but I never related it to man. My mind is being blown whenever I take time to process my memories through this new concept you have been talking about.

I had a job for a long time of 4 years. I stepped on many peoples feet, but I was able to get away with it. Probably because I was the only tech guy, worked cheap, worked long hours, and I was really good at what I did. I would always enter into debates with the boss about decisions that affected the companies technology infrastructure. Luckily my boss was interested in technology toys enough to somewhat understand the concepts. It was probably a one in thousand once in a lifetime job. But I was always struggling to keep going to work, and after 4 years I finally had a melt down. They really wanted me to come back but I just couldn't bring myself to do it.

When I watch the TV show "The Office" I often find that Dwight Schrute reminds me of myself. Especially the earlier seasons where he wasn't quite as extreme. I have a feeling that Dwight is based of Aspie workers the writers have worked with in the past, or have heard stories of.

I asked about this before in relation to an adult class I was taking.

Interesting that ignoring the hierarcy rather than challenging it is taken as more agressive because by ignoring it you threaten its existence!

So if you ignore it your more likely to get your ass kicked than if you say hey Im not low man on the ladder here!! !

Biggest truth ever spoken to Aspies, TrueDave.

So aspies are not even the lowest ranking person in the group. We aren't even a part of the group. As we are unable to join it, even if we wanted too. So like a group of monkeys on Animal Planet you get picked by everyone because you aren't a part of the group and have no social standing.

I've read that gossip, deception, and manipulation of power relations were the main drivers of the increase in brain size in our ancestors, there was basically an arms race in using lying and manipulation to increase one's social standing, with gossip being the "intelligence." Over the long term this actually led to social structures becoming more egalitarian, though the power hierarchies are still there, but they are not as obvious as they are in, say, chimpanzees. The increasing egalitarianism itself then contributed to increasing brain size because it caused social relationships to become much more complicated and fluid, with informal hierarchies forming and disintegrating constantly. Thinking of reality as a social reality is probably the cause of the origin of religion, people interpreted the world in terms of conscious agents, gods and spirits, instead of objects.

Odin, that was a very interesting comment. Indeed, when people so often tell me to befriend animals instead of people because I don't have chemistry with humans, I tell them that the things I don't like in humans are even more rigid in animals: the social hierarchy and the conformism.

The animal thing is a good point.

I see from watching the Dog Whisperer, a show about a professional dog handler teaching problem animals, that theres a pecking order with a dog.

That stopped me from getting one partially.

Obviously you are not unaware, so what is your excuse for this lack of sensitivity?

There's a show called At the End of My Leash. That guy is an a$$hole who thinks dogs are people and people are animals. Obviously this guy has a pathological need to dominate others.Talk about no understanding of social reality! I'm appalled and amazed at how the families on this show are disrespected and insulted on a regular basis. The behaviours he has are outrageous. Crikey, Steve Irwin loved animals but also loved people! Steve Irwin, rest in peace. Jeff the Dog Whisperer, you need a sound thrashing.

I had a great manager once. When we first met he didn't come off as egotistical at all but he was very aware of presenting a good image. I didn't understand this until one day we were walking together drinking coffee when he coughed and a bit of coffee came out of his mouth. He was SO humiliated and me kinda being Data-like couldn't understand it. He kept apologizing and blushing about his blunder. Finally, I said seriously, "it's O.K Brad, I have gas." I was just trying to relate. Well, he laughed so hard that he spit coffee again but this time he didn't apologize! We've been great friends ever since

I've just read this thread from start to latest and find a mixture of reactions. I think the issue of social hierarchies is a highly complex one. Many of us have great difficulty in determining one's place in the scheme of things, though I agree they are easier to recognise in some situations than others (For instance, I find my place on the employment hierarchy more simple - I'm never around long enough to climb it! though socially I find the whole process mind-boggling). What has raised my interest particularly, though, has been the dichotomous response of how we deal with it - many of you are far braver than I and consciously oppose hierarchies that you cannot justify, whilst many others appear to respond in the same way as I and attempt to stay below the radar.

It would be far less contentious if we were able to live in an Aspie world where our own views and understanding of society around us allowed us to move within it without being (or feeling) persecuted and discriminated against. Unfortunately, it is their world we move in and "No man is an island" - No matter how hard we may try to make it so!

Indeed, no man is an island. Well played!

People say this to me & I say - "But I try really hard to be!"

Can't help being the type who "fights" it - I loved TrueDave's comment that being oblivious is seen as worse than openly challenging it.

Proves I've been doing it right then!

i.e. most of the time I am oblivous, but I will openly challenge it just often enough for everyone to think my "obliviousness" is deliberate!! !! !