Suspected AS-wife moved out. NT husband+2 kids stay at home.

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I'm coming to this discussion late, I don't know if the poster is still around.
Since I recently left my husband of 20 years, I might be able to offer some insight into his wife's reasons (though in my case I took the kids with me).

Have you figured out where she can get tested for "Asperger's" (or "Autism Spectrum Disorder," depending on which system is used in your country)? Therapists qualified to diagnose ASD are not exactly a dime a dozen. Finding one may be a challenge. You should make sure you can find one before you tell you wife to get a diagnosis.

You are also going to have to find an ASD-aware couples counselor, and/or refer your already-existing couples counselor to good info about ASD.

Hey MrsPeel, you are not late:) I would love to hear your insight!

I am not very optimistic about these tests. As far as I know the tests are good for men, but not so good for women. Women are diagnosed 9 times less than men which means common knowledge about female Aspergers is limited and tests unreliable.

Anyway, I don't need an official test. I would just like for my wife and I to get on the same page about the symptoms and how we're going to deal with them.

You are right about the therapists. We were having sessions with two different couple therapists. Now, we decided to stay with one which we prefer. Neither one of the therapists are ASD-aware and honestly, I'm not even sure if we can find one in our country. Both therapists are very professional and well intentioned, but they don't know much about Aspergers, let alone female Aspergers. Sometimes I have a feeling that the counselors think that I'm using the suspected Aspergers of my wife as an "excuse". I'm not. I have read everything under the sun about Aspergers, compared last 7 years of my journal to the symptoms, read five books on ASD (specific to Asperger women) and everything leads me to s a very strong suspicion that my wife has an ASD indeed. But, it seems no one believes me. Because they lack the knowledge. So I'm slowly educating my therapist about Aspergers. Isn't that weird? Even worse. Even my wife knows less about Aspergers than I do!
I told her about my suspicion. I also told her why do I think so (and my "evidence" is very sound). She didn't comment. I think she doesn't want to know OR maybe she thinks I'm just looking for an excuse for our communication troubles in the past. But I need BOTH of us to know. If I'm supposed to help her and understand her I need her to know too about it.

Thank you for your insight. My wife has spent most of the last 10 days with us at home. So this is good.
She spent only one night at her new flat. She expressed a wish for us to change the interiors at home and to replace the kitchen with the new one. I agreed because I realize this will help her start fresh back at our home. I also voluntarily promised her to build an attachment room to our home so she can get her own room. Through my studies of female Aspergers I realized this is simply something she needs badly (but was never able to explain why to me).

That being said, she still is paying rent for the flat where she was staying for 7 weeks. It's a fully functional home. According to her, she loves it because this was a home that she furnished herself. Yesterday she told me that she is thankful that I'm so understanding. Well, I am but it's very hard for me. It really drains my energy. She said she is keeping her separate flat to get some control in life. She says that she feels she wasn't having enough control over her life. I'm not sure how should I understand this but I'm trying to.

That being said, even though for time being we're kind of back together and we're going on vacation tomorrow, things are not the same. I'm still devastated from the whole experience (which still isn't over because she still is having a separate apartment over there). I guess it will take a long time for me be able to trust her as much as I did before she left.

I always trusted my wife 150%. I really did. I had faith in US. I trusted that no matter what problems we have had we were able to to solve them one way or another. Alone or with the help of therapists. She violated that trust. Even though I know she was saving herself, she did so at the expense of the rest of the family. This is not fair. What kind of a message is this for the kids? As I talk to my wife I see she thinks that her act of abandoning us for 7 weeks was no big deal. Well, it WAS a big deal. It was a big deal to me. And it was a big deal to our kids, especially to our younger 12 year son (who is also an Asperger). He was devastated and I don't think my wife even realizes the extent of damage that has been done.

Now, when she mentions her new "flat", it hurts. For time being, I try not to think about it too much. But I know this cannot go on forever. I did tell my wife that I don't want to have an "always-backup-on-my-mind" wife." I don't want to live with a life mate who is not 100% committed to our relationship. I simply don't want to be in a relationship with anyone who is running away or having a backup location in her mind.

I hope she realizes soon that she can get most of what she needs at home. With us. In our home.

Your feelings are completely valid. She violated your trust. Instead of being honest with you about her feelings on the home you've built together, she seems to just want to avoid the home entirely. That seems like a coping mechanism for her, but it's definitely not healthy. She probably has always had a difficult time communicating with you, and probably never directly said "I'd like more input in the layout and decoration of the house. I don't feel like it's mine." She may not have known how to do that. However, it still doesn't negate your feelings and your childrens' feelings. She's not the only one affected.

I think it's great that you were able to talk to her about this and figure out a way to re-do rooms in the house. I know that damage has been done and it's going to be challenging from now on to build that trust back up. That is a scary feeling, for sure. I think this was probably a miscommunication that may have taken years to bubble over, so it may take just as long to heal.

It sounds like you are both dedicated to your marriage. That's wonderful. I hope you both can feel like best selves together and that you can work through it. I know it's been really hard for both of you.

Well, not sure if this is how your wife feels, but for me, I feel a really intense discomfort just thinking about my old home or my husband. Almost a feeling of fear or panic.

Here I have my own space and I can keep my things how I like and I'm not answerable to anyone and I'm not forced into a discussion I'm bound to lose just to ask for what I need. So I avoid going back there or speaking to him, I just can't handle the painful feelings I get.

I think I'm actually traumatised - and I know this doesn't make sense. Our home life would not to an outsider seem traumatising, and yet to me it was. Now I realise much of the problem is my AS (I was undiagnosed at the time) but I can't pretend I'm not still traumatised, it's not that simple.

I'll try to explain, as best I can explain reactions on my part that would seem to make no sense...
No, I need to think about it for a minute, it's not even clear in my head.
I'll be back.

It's not actually about the kitchen, you know. It's about AS and communication deficits and power dynamics and mid-life crises...

The irony is that we are the ones who are supposed to work by logic and have no emotions (or that is how we can be portrayed) - but it was his logical arguments and my emotions which destroyed me. Destroyed us.

I'm sure he thought he was being reasonable. He knew what he wanted but he would ask my opinion and seek agreement. Often, I did not agree, I wanted things different. But he would put forward his arguments, and they would make perfect sense - we can't afford this but we can afford that; his proposal will be good for the family in this way and mine will be bad in that; I'm not listening to him, I'm not understanding, I'm not being reasonable. And I had no way to explain why I disagreed, why I wanted things my way. My argument was not logical, it did not make sense. So he would argue the benefits and I would agree that, yes, I could see the benefits, I just didn't like it. And even I could hear how unreasonable I am sounding. And so he would get his way.

At first, it didn't matter. We both wanted what was best for the family, we were working towards a good future for all of us. So I could let him have his way on small things. Every small thing. But then 20 years passed and over time all the small things have added up and it comes crashing down on me how far I've strayed from the life I wanted for myself and the kids. I'm living in a suburb I would not have chosen, in a house I don't particularly like, and that I've never had a chance to decorate to my liking, and because he's a hoarder I can't even use the garage because its crammed full of his stuff and it makes me feel sick just going inside.

And the house is a mess, because when you have AS, seemingly simple things like keeping a house clean and tidy are hard, so so hard. It's like, I can see that pile of clothes and I can't stand looking at it, but I can't get my head around doing the things I need to do to clear it. I have to sort it into piles and get the kids to take theirs and put away mine and take out the stuff to iron, but as well as the ironing I have to plan what to cook for dinner and I should have soaked the beans and now it's too late and that means I can't cook what I wanted to and now I have to change plan and I can't get my head around it, there's too much choice, maybe we should just get take-out but that's not healthy and I'm being a bad mother and all the time that pile of clothes is sitting there driving me mad and now my head hurts and I have to go lie down and f**k I'm such a useless wife and mother, f**k f**k f**k.

And after a while every room in the house is a reminder of how my life is so different to how I'd always thought it would be, and of how I've failed my husband and my kids, and how he has failed me (even if he doesn't know it and I can't explain).
I go in the kitchen and I remember how he rearranged the food in the pantry and how I had to put it all back in the way I wanted it and how angry I was because I do most of the cooking so it's not his business but I can't let my anger out on him because he thought he was being helpful. I go into the bathroom and I remember that week when the toilet was absolutely filthy but I was so so tired I just couldn't face it and I asked him if he could clean it, and he said yes, sure, but a week later he hadn't done it so I had to do it and that was OK I had the energy by then but it was annoying that he'd said he would and he didn't and if someone had visited it would be so embarrassing. What sort of wife and mother lets the toilet stay in that state for a week? And I go into my bedroom and I remember going in there to escape, and wishing I'd thought to put a lock on the door because the kids would come in wanting things from me. Not wanting easy things like fifty dollars, wanting difficult things like attention and emotional support, the sort of things hubby expects me to be able to give, society expects me to be able to give, and sometimes I just can't. So I go into the bedroom, which used to be my haven and now it just reminds me of how useless I am and how badly I've let everyone down.

So now I have a new place. It's just a rental but I can give myself time and space and in that time and space I can think things through and make lists and keep on top of cleaning and tidying. And most importantly I don't have to explain to him why I'm doing things like this or like that, I no longer have to justify to him why I want what I want, I'm free to discover who I am. Not the wife or mother, me.

And I know people judge. Men at work, they would talk to me condescendingly about how they would do anything for their families, they would make sacrifices. That it's important to compromise and not think about yourself. That marriage is a two-way street. They think I'm selfish. They think I don't care.

And after work I take my antidepressant and I go see my therapist and we work through these symptoms I've been having that seem like anxiety or PTSD. Except I haven't been through any major trauma, so how can I have PTSD? But if it's not PTSD, why does thinking about my husband or my old house have my stomach clenching and the headache starting, and a sudden need to go walk for an hour, maybe two hours, just to keep my head together.

I don't know if it's like that for your wife, but that's how it is for me.

Mrs. Peel - It is not PTSD but it is almost the same thing as PTSD. Stress is cumulative in nature. The tools designed to heal PTSD are the same tools that can remove stress and vent stress from your body.

I'm autistic, my wife is NT. She makes it back home just 5-6 days per month. So I'm a mostly single parent of 2 boys. So it's not a simply AS/NT thing.

Agreed.

What I didn't say was that the difference in my situation is that I took the kids with me. He rarely asks them to stay at his place, I have them 95% of the time. Which is fine with me - I actually find it much easier to look after them without his interference.

Also, the OP is clearly much more thoughtful and sensitive towards his wife's needs than my husband was. I was also getting verbal and emotional abuse from mine, and therefore have no plans to return. I hope the OP gets a better outcome.

MarkP, I really think you need to look at this post and soak it in.

Please do not say your wife's behaviours are selfish or devastating for your family. You sound very controlling. She needs a break and is trying to cope. Having your own room in a house is not enough (but a good start). For her sanity she needs this flat, I would say longterm. She functions in a different way than you, and it sounds like she does feel awful for it. Please do not blame her or her AS. Please do not be mad at her, it sounds like she's trying so hard. She is using a coping strategy so she doesn't have to sacrifice the sanity of the family.

Rather than viewing it as putting up with her nonsense, try to see it as helping her with her very real difficulties that is upsetting her?

If you really don't want her to find a retreat, how about you make compromises yourself and make your shared home a better environment for her needs? She is a person, with her own needs. Say, hire a cleaner, don't move objects around, maybe even ask the kids not to move objects around. I think it would be reasonable to ask the kids to quiet it down a bit, or take them out to after school activities so that when she gets home she will have the house to herself every now and then. Maybe compromise to a one day retreat twice weekly. It's great that you are getting her a new kitchen! If she dislikes the house so much, would she like for the family to move homes, even move areas? Moving is horrible but it might change things.

For me environment = sanity.

As for yourself, I think to influence another first you must concentrate on yourself. Make yourself more adaptable to her needs. For instance, she may not want to talk or walk as much. Go and read a book or do something that makes you busy for when she gets back home and gain some independence. You could by going out with just you and the kids so she can have the house to herself. Even if you just did that once a week it would help her. Maybe you could even do your work in an office outside the house if it's practical.

She sounds an amazing wife, and you sound like an amazing husband, despite me saying you are very controlling. I think, just calm down, you need to concentrate on the present, not what could happen, and step back from the emotional side of things yourself. Or she might find it too much.

@MrsPeel, do you have a direct connection to my wife's brains? Because it looks like you do:) You literally opened my eyes to the inner world of my wife that I never knew about. I can't thank you enough.

P.S. I have also replied to @smudge about changes and improvements I made in our life to reflect the suspected my wife's AS.

Last edited by MarkP on 02 Jul 2019, 10:32 am, edited 3 times in total.

Thank you for you comment. Really. You guys are amazing. Well, one of my wife's complaints has been that I am too controlling. I probably am. She likes me for that (it comes with benefits too). But you are right. I need to relax a bit. I am doing that already. Life is too short. Sometimes I just need to let go.

This is the list of things that I already implemented (are in action):

1. I recognize and understand that she needs time alone. I don't judge her for that anymore.
2. When she needs a time alone, I leave her alone. I also instructed my kids about that. Usually she goes to bedroom. No opening of the doors, no major noise.
3. She will get her room. It's going to be as soundproof as possible. Also, she will be responsible for furnishing it as she wants.
4. I agreed and am active into the idea of remodelling our home, including new floors, living room and kitchen. We already went shopping and seeing things to get ideas. I am actively supporting this.
5. When she needs the time, I have plenty of things to do myself. So I do it. Or I go somewhere with the kids,
6. We have a cleaner from day 1. Now I know why;) My wifes hates ironing.
7. When our youngest son watches TV and my wife is at home, he puts on headphones and watches TV with them. No noise.
8. When she gets home from work, we take it easy. We let her unwind, she needs something to eat and relax for half an hour to an hour. We will make sure this is how it happens.
9. Because I'm better educated about my wife's suspected AS, I am now more sensible to her mood as well as I have gotten pretty good at reading if something might be wrong before it's wrong. My wife admitted to me that I feel her:)
10. I'm going to listen to her more. I thought I was listening to her throughout our marriage, always seeking her input. I thought we were always being able to find a reasonable solution for our decisions. But, reading the post of @MrsPeel, I realize I "won" way too many times albeit not intentionally. Yes, when I thought here arguments were irrational, I felt a duty to expose that and say my opinion. That's because I simply wasn't aware of the suspected AS of my wife and the communication issues that come with it (alexythimia being one of them). Now, I'm aware and while I can' guarantee I will be okay with each and every wish of my wife, I will at least consciously try to be more accommodating.
11. I am super okay with my wife taking some time off, a couple of days or a weekend alone. As a matter of fact, in the past I often encouraged her to do exactly that. She rarely used that opportunity though. Not sure why.

I'm not sure if that's a complete list.

Last weekend I took my wife to a concert to Austria. It was a present for her birthday that I bought last August. And we used the day for idea generating stroll through furniture stores (new kitchen). She liked it and we had a good time. We are now on vacation, together with our youngest son. It's nice. Relaxing. My wife asked me today if I blame her for what has happened. She noticed my different behavior. Sometimes, sadness flushes over me and I can't help it. I guess I'm still traumatised by the whole experience. When I didn't know why. When I didn't have any answers. When I had to allow a thought that we might break up (not even knowing why - my wife wasn't particularly good at explaining what's going on). Nowadays, she frequently looks directly in my eyes, like she is seeking an answer. I think she notices my occasional sadness. It's usually when I think on the previous 8 weeks. They were traumatic for me. I was in a vacuum without answers. I know now that I shouldn't be, but I'm sad when I think about the possibility that my wife might want to keep her second home somewhere else. I'm sad because this is a deal breaker for me. And you know what that means. She frequently looks into my eyes as if she wanted to determine if I still love her. I do. I never stopped loving her, as weird as this sounds. Otherwise I wouldn't study so much, I wouldn't go extra mile to try to understand her. I really wanted to understand her because things just didn't make sense for me. I refused to believe that she was simply being selfish and mean even though it surely looked like that. I was hurt when she left, so abruptly, without explanation. I was even more hurt when she started a new life, a new home somewhere else without telling me about her plans. So today, when she asked me if I blame her I just said, "It wasn't easy". I'm glad I didn't say that I blame her because at that time I haven't yet read a post of @MrsPeel. Because in reality, I part of me was still blaming her. I was angry at her. But I am not angry any more. Not after reading a post of @MrsPeel.

I just wish my wife can feel safe at home again. I will make everything that I can to make it safe for her to live with us without having to support a fully functional flat somewhere else at the same time. It hurts me to the bones when I think that my wife wants to keep her safe heaven, her hideaway somewhere else. I don't think I can live with that long term. And I'm not sure if the points above (and I have missed some probably) will be enough for her. I hope so. But I would not be true to myself if I wouldn't say this: I don't want her to keep a fully functioned 3 bedroom home somewhere else. I'm not comfortable with that. It's a red line for me.

You guys in this forum are truly amazing. I'm so grateful for your insight. The therapists have been pretty much useless on this regard even though they did expose some trauma from childhood (of my wife) and they did some good. But, they are clueless about the inner world of my wife, especially in light of a suspected AS.

I'm glad that was helpful.
You sound like a fantastic husband and father, I hope it works out for you.

UPDATE:

All of you guys have been fantastic. With your help I managed to understand my wife better and that was invaluable. Alternative has been to let my ego prevail. That could have been catastrophic.

So, my wife came back home approx a month ago. We went to vacation twice during that time, we just came back from a week-long vacation without the kids, just the two of us. During that time we talked. It was easier to talk in a relaxed setting. On one occasion my wife told looked me straight into my eyes, and said that she was really sorry for the "suffering she caused". She apologized to me. She said that now she knows how great I have been during that difficult time and that she feels so happy to having me. She said that she started to appreciate me more. Among other things she also said that now she knows her leaving us was never about me or the kid but about her. Maybe she had a sort of a burnout. Anyway, I didn't expect her apology. If it's true that she is an AS, then there's nothing to apologize for. But it feels good to know that my wife knows that her action of moving away her family did have a negative impact. When she left us in anger and sorrow, it caused trauma. It WAS difficult. We (myself and the boys) were traumatised. I really don't want to go through this again. I just can't. So, last week she terminated the lease with the owner of the rented apartment. This was also my only "condition". Yesterday she asked me if I can help her collect the rest of her things from the rented apartment. I did. We put her things in the car and drove off - for good.

We also talked about my strong suspicion that my wife might be an undiagnosed AS. At first she didn't want to hear about it. I think she started to believe me after I read to her some of your replies and snippets of text out of this forum and your replies to me. Specifically, I read my wife a post of Mrs. Peel out loud. It's the post where Mrs. Peel describes how felt when she moved away from her husband. After hearing this my wife said that this was a pretty accurate description how she felt too. So now, I think part of her accepts a possibility that she might indeed be an AS, especially after I told her about other symptoms and the signs (which match perfectly). I don't care about a diagnosis. But I do care about both of us being aware of our neurological states (AS/NT) and the implications of that.

Anyway, things have calmed down now. For the fifth week we're living together under the same roof. Oddly enough, we are still connected. We have THAT connection. I never stopped loving her and she never stopped loving me (even though it seemed like it). But it has been a really really rough journey for me. And, it has been rough for our kids, especially our youngest son (12 y old, a diagnosed AS). I think he secretly blames his mother for abandoning him at the time. I think they need to talk too. I did talk with my son and tried to explain but I can never do that as good as she can.

Anyway, we're still going to be seeing a therapist. It turned out years of miscommunication (also due to lack of awareness about the NT/AS dynamics) did leave a mark. There's still quite some stuff that we need to talk about and a therapist has been great so far at discovering some of them, and we already addressed them. We will continue to do so for the foreseeable future.

Also, we're also going to renovate our home during the next months to come. We're going to make it more Aspie friendly. And my wife will get her own space within the apartment, that is going to be just hers. Also, we have already implemented some new "rules" with the kids, how do we engage with each other, taking into account what we have learned about each other. With that new knowledge I believe we can make it. I'm more aware of my wife's needs. They are not typical:) They are different to mine and I wasn't aware of that fact. She never told me, at least not calmly (she did tell me but in codes and always when she was angry or had a meltdown). With a new knowledge of my wife, it's easier for me to understand and respect her needs.

Thank you all. You helped me more than you think.

Last edited by MarkP on 22 Jul 2019, 6:55 am, edited 1 time in total.