The Dino-Aspie Cafe (for Those 40+... or feeling creaky)

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Nanna,

I think this is possibly a reaction to you all shutting down his exuberance (what you are calling outburts) and probably telling him the teacher was being fair. Is that possible? One of the hardest things for an Aspie kid is when NT adults do not understand what we think and why we act like we do. I said all the answers in class all the time (still do if I'm in training). I would automatically correct teachers. If I was told not to say answers and not to correct them, I also thought they were unfair. I knew the answer first. The teacher was wrong so I corrected her or him. I wasn't doing it to show off or be mean and when that was implied, I got worse. I remember getting mad and going through a stage where I refused to talk to them at all because they were "mean" to me. If they were mean, I wasn't going to talk to them because they didn't deserve it.

I don't know how the unstructured will go. Here's what they did with me to solve everyone's problems (mine, the other kids and the teachers). In six grade, this older teacher got with the other teachers. They built a curriculum for me where I did all that the other kids did and whatever I was interested in learning. Then, they took me to the library and that was my class until we graduated. That worked for me. Unstructured might work for him. On the other hand, some people seem to do better with almost 50's style teaching structure where it's very rote and straight forward. An instance of that for me would have been new math. I didn't get new math at all. My dad sat me down and taught me math the old fashioned way and I was fine. Drove the teachers crazy but my mom talked to them and it was fine.

I wouldn't get him anxiety drugs yet. He was happy before. Something set this off. Find out what it is. Many Aspies get depressed when they start to have it shoved in their face how different they are and how they need to act like everyone else. To you it doesn't seem like shoving it in his face, but to him it does. If you didn't figure out why his perception of the teachers was the way it was or why he spoke out in class AND validate him, he's going to feel depressed. He is not going to understand it. Remember what I told you about trying to understand him in terms of you. That's how you and Smelena understood that, but that is not how he understands things. He's vastly different than you. What you need to somehow figure out how to get across to him is that different is not better or worse, it's just different. It's like red hair and brown hair. It's all hair, just different.

Talk to him without emotion and be silent until he talks. Don't fill in the blanks for him. He can tell you why he's sad. You have to be prepared to wait for him to tell you and hear only what he tells you no matter how bizarre it seems.

I was a bizarre kid myself. Ubby and I could probably swap stories.

And yes, stroking does help with meltdowns. Dh pets my hair. I've done the brush or my fingernails on my arms.

Tell Smelena she really should consider martial arts. I know she was thinking about it. It will teach him concentration, control and muscle coordination. Most of that is about mental as much as physical exercise. It's a good idea.

And you have to tell her that no matter how hard it is, she has got to keep it together and not get emotional over this or she'll make it worse. He will go into overload because of her emotions which will just make her more depressed. She may be the one who needs something for anxiety right now so she doesn't escalate him. That is probably one of the big reasons you see this escalating.

Wishing you all the best from the whole family,

Zanne

Zanne:

Couple of things on the pet food. I noticed a wide variety of responses on the recall. In an article in the news, it said that some places still had the recalled food on the shelves. Dangerous.

Other places removed ONLY the specific items that were recalled, like my local Pet Club. And my local Safeway grocery store removed ANYTHING with a brand name that was recalled.

In those last two cases, it wasn't the STORE that did it, it was their corporate decision, on what to pull or not. People that were not following the recall closely, were stupid. LOL! Like the guy who looks at my cat food and says "That was RECALLED!" and I look at him and say, "No, this brand and kind was never in question, so far".

Varying degrees of knowledge mixed with varying degrees of concern/safety. My local Safeway didn't care that the shelves were bare, they pulled everything that was vaguely related to the recall. Other stores, like the one you mention, may have had the brilliant idea of "Wow, we can't have bare shelves, stick something else in there".

Which brings me to my next point. Stores are getting lazy, in that they expect the consumer to know more than the actual staff. WE are supposed to read the labels and match up the UPC and all other details with the can in our hand and the shelf tag.

I have said that to many stores and it shuts them up fast. "Do you expect me to do more work than your own employees? You want me to do the job of your employees, by carefully matching the prices and ounces and UPCs?"

So, it was probably not the fault of the clerk to place those items in that spot. What could be done is to ask for the manager, take them to that spot, show them the discrepancy between the shelf tag and the product.

If there isn't a discrepancy, you can still ask for the manager, and point out the seriousness of certain products being in certain spots. Yes, some food was recalled, because it was dangerous to all cats. Now YOU (the store manager) have placed a food here (pointing at the spot where the cans are) that is dangerous to MY cat. And may well be dangerous to many other cats.

It is irresponsible and puts all cats with allergies at risk.

Then you can say that empty shelves are not a crime. It shows us, the consumer, that you cared enough to pull the affected products from the shelves, and we can be confident that when the shelves are refilled that it will be with untainted product (not that that is true, but that's what we hope and assume).

It may actually be refilled with the pulled products, IF the pulled products were tested and found not to be harmful (like different lot numbers). That's fine. We just want to know the food we are buying is safe. Right? Not spoiled, not tainted, not poisoned.

It would be good to share whatever tips we've accumulated over time to help cut back on those meltdowns. I've had them too.

Post,

I think all of those things for PTSD (another thing it took me forever to figure out!) are also AS things. It's like me being INTJ or AS or both. Chicken and egg thing. The bottom line is that if you do have PTSD, we have similar things so we can understand. I had my outburst today in real life. No one was hurt, but some cans were dented and the girl's feelings were hurt. If the owner had been there, it would have been fine because he always takes care of me himself. Probably knows how neurotic and weird I am and wants to prevent such an incident. He also likes my business.

So, you dropped your partner. I walked out on I don't know how many dates five minutes into them. They lived and so did I. We all learned. When people say Aspies will get along better together than AS/NT, I sometimes wonder if they are on acid. My best friend and I have some of the biggest blow outs I've had with anyone and we could never live together! I'll say anything about sex and she's a prude and thinks it's only for making babies and any idiot should know that. We couldn't have more different views. It used to cause big fights between us when I met dh. Aspies are going to fight. We are going to have misunderstandings. We're just humans.

And now for a word from our sponsors!

"He came in through the bathroom window..." </Beatles>

Hey, I got the "electrical appliances" reference - I just didn't get why CosmicCat blew up like that. <shrug> To quote another song, "You know, you can't please everyone, so you've got to please yourself."

Come back, CosmicCat - all I ask is that you lighten up a little!

True,

My irritation stemmed from them moving these other cans into that spot to fool the consumer into thinking that was the food they wanted. They could have spread the other cans out to hide the bare spot. And if the owner had been there, he would have gotten it instead. It's a mom and pop store so there's no corporate involved. If that girl had told me they pulled it all to be safe, I wouldn't have cared. It's their store and their right, but don't lie and say they were told to pull all because that's not so. She can get online right at the register. I've seen them do it to look things up before. What made me the most angry with this particular store is that they deal in specialty foods specifically for pets who have special needs. Where some Petco or Petsmart wouldn't know, they do know. If they advertise their store as supplying special food for allergies, they have to take responsibility for it. They know better than to put that food there now. They can put it back where they had it before. It makes me crazy when they try to slide something over on the customer deliberately like that and when it can cause vet bills, etc. Especially when they say they specialize in that particular thing.

Anyway, it's over now. Dh will deal with it. He'll chew the owner out. He doesn't do it like I do, but he'll get his point across.

One of the best things about dh is that when I blow a gasket like that, he never gets mad at me, he always gets mad at whoever caused it. Because I'm "baby" and "baby" doesn't do anything wrong. Poor dh! Oh well, he saw all of this before he ever married me.

And my meltdowns only happen once every two or three years now. When he met me, they were frequent.

Last edited by ZanneMarie on 28 Apr 2007, 8:08 pm, edited 1 time in total.

I hope I didn't seem to criticize your handling that situation. I actually found your response delightful and effective. I guess I meant to say that when I get tired, sometimes I find it easier not to respond, because I might get nasty ( as if it mattered) because some people are clearly asking for it. I think that woman was being a b--h because there you were, in a totally stressful situation, and she decides to try and add some more. I remembered another thing; I was helping my daughter store her things in a storage unit, and we realized that we should have rented a bigger storage room. So there we were, frantically trying to stuff everything into the too small room, and the place was going to close in about 30 minutes. It was one of those secured places that you need a swipe a card to get in, during business hours. So this manager comes over and starts being a complete a--hole. Yelling and carrying on about how our presences would set off the alarms if we didn't clear out, etc. Suddenly overwhelmed, my daughter burst into tears, and I followed suit. You should have seen that guy! Falling all over himself apologizing, offering us assistance, etc. He even arranged for us to have the truck another two days free! I didn't get emotional on purpose, but it sure worked in our favor.

Last edited by hartzofspace on 29 Apr 2007, 12:54 am, edited 1 time in total.

Yeah Zanne, but here's the kicker as I see it, I have a trigger that will set it off, PTSD, everytime, it hits squarely on the miltitary thing. Sure it's had a spell over, and that's just the way it is. That I haven't delt with it long before this, is not good, not sure it really can be undone even a little, least my little resaerch doesn't see it, but..... I go to the VA (vets Admin) they have delt with this stuff for a long time, they are good at it. Time will tell, next meeting is already on the calender and he might be lurking here. He didn't know much if anything about AS and I gave him the sites addy if he cared to know a little more. In our last session (councilors, not doc) he was putting 2 and 2 together as we spoke to others that he see's, one of which had been there before me. You can bet I'm not the only aspie in the world that was given an M-16.

Last night I tried to write my self through it. Worked a little I think. But it still took 2 valium to go to sleep even though I was exhausted. Ever vigliant, ever on guard, ever with my back to the wall, watching the door or someone elses back. Hell of it is, I don't know what I'm guarding against. I already said when I got home i slept with a loaded chambered rifle and an unsheathed combat knife, that should have said to me something was wrong, it didn't. i did not before I went in, nothing even close to it.

Little add on to the VA thing, something I talked about a long time ago in here. There was no female concilor in my area, in the system. When I discovered that I can talk better to a female about this stuff then to a male. I was stuck, not enough money to go private. I raised holy hell. Guess what My VA hospital has a female councilor now.

Despite what you see in the news, on the ground level, the VA is fantasic, at least where I am. These people really give a damn. They smile at you and mean it and it's not just one of them, it's everyone of them. It's the higher ups where the problem is. This is just my area, might not hold true everywhere.

When they found out that there were a lot of us with Hep C, orders came down it was a manidtory check, you had to do it. My eras rate of it is huge compared to the national level, I'm not the only one that lived a destructive life style. There is now a specialist for Hep C here. Still no cure and mine isn't acting up. I leave it alone it leaves me alone. Some day it won't and some day I'll go after it with a vengance.

And PTSD was brought up before, they just flipped doctors, went without one for a while, so it never got looked at again. The system needs some serious help and we're mass producing more to come home. The system needs serious help it is not going to be pretty this time, it wasn't before, but this one is already bad. The suicide rate is way up and PTSD and all the other little goodies are even, already, putting my era to shame. We aren't begging for help, it was a promise and we'll hold them to the promise.

Zanne:

Remember one thing. That clerk could be another Aspie. Or someone with other challenges. And I have left jobs, on the spot, when a customer has taken out their frustrations on me. I wasn't the one who mis-marked something, it wasn't my fault. But you'd think from the reaction of the customer that I had planned this out all my life to make this one exchange into a nightmare.

I remember this pair of woman, already talking about ME being an IDIOT in long lines, before they were even at the counter. I was going faster than others, but I got stuck at a register that had no working phone, and one of the buttons on the register didn't work, the one to get assistance.

When the smack-talking women got to the counter, the insults really flew, and darned if the shoes they brought to buy didn't have two different prices. I didn't know which was right.

I had to use another register's phone (which got more insults from the women), and by the time the guy from shoes arrived, the women were furious. He then got mad at me, as if I was supposed to KNOW which price was right. See, he was too busy to make time to come up and work with lowly cashiers as he was management.

Getting insulted from both sides, I simply walked away from the register, let security know that "I quit" and never went back. This was at Nordstrom.

Nobody gets paid enough to put up with verbal abuse, unless that is specifically part of their job. It's not on the job description and I don't expect to have people take out their frustrations on me.

Instead, the customer and I could act as a team, and maybe something would get done. Like the correct prices on shoes or the correct product on shelves. Of course, I'd probably get fired, because managers don't like that kind of stand-up personality from their subordinates. Eh. I'd rather be fired and help someone than be attacked and quit.

Either way, I'm out of a job, but at least I leave feeling good about myself.

Postpaleo:

You are familiar with this site, no?:
http://www.ncptsd.va.gov/ncmain/index.jsp

Tons of PTSD info there. I ended up there because of looking for info on PTSD. And was surprised to see that Childhood Abuse is in the same category as Veterans for Complex PTSD.

I was abused as a child. The difference is that there are no countries or governments fighting for the release of a child or to end a war. If a POW escapes, they might make it to safety. If a child escapes, they are returned to their abuser(s). There are no videos shown on National television that will cause the citizens to call their local governmental representatives to demand that a child be freed.

But the kinds of mental pressures are similar. Being placed in situations in which we have NO CONTROL. Where there is no escape. I had a link that went right to the Complex PTSD page, but it's a "not found" page now.

Explore that site if you haven't already. I had felt it would be good for all the people who have suffered PTSD to group as one. Perhaps the voices would be heard then.

No child should be left in that situation, True. it's revolting to me when people turn a blind eye to it. Everyone has to speak out and fight for that child because how else will they be defended?

Postpaleo wrote:

Okay, but only if it's a waltz. Vienna woods or something.

Yeah! She came back. We've all been having meltdowns. I wonder if they are tied to moon cycles, although I used to get them so frequently the moon would have had to be cycling ever hour!

Post Paello I was not appalled by you but by your description of how to kill when you were helping Zm with Aspie Girl. I thought at the time that it was awful knowledge to have. I would hate to deal with killing.

Before everything else you are a man, and men find it very hard to deal with issues. Then you have other burdens to deal with, any one of which could break a human. I admire your courage, and the way you have been so open. It must have been hard for you. Many men I know would not get help, but keep pushing the problem under the carpet until BLAM!

I haven't learnt to go back to check the post without losing this reply, but my memory is that CC objected to what she understood as your advice to a 20 year old to use a vibrator. As a mother of daughters, she will be fiercely protective of them.

As for your sex romps and synapses and coffee dude I think that you are getting high. I think this is the place where you get some relief from RL. I love the way the conversation flows and ebbs, and takes a new turn. I have not laughed aloud so much for years. My husband would enjoy your posts on sex, but I'm inclined to roll my eyes and think 'men!'

If you haven't done so, could you please send your last posts privately to CC. Specially the one about dancing with you. Here' a great big hug.

No. We've read an excellent book by an Aspie (will get his name later) called All you need to know about your child With Aspergers or something. No pressure, no taking sides. His father used to yell at him in of his meltdowns and becomes stressed, but I think he's stopped that now.

But we do not let him get away with bad behaviour.

Anyway I feel better after airing all that. Will get Helen to read your advice. Thanks to our triad dude as well. Can't check on your name or I will lose this reply. You come across as a real Texan to me. Thanks for the spelling. I knew someone would get it.

You did mention coming to Australia because of the interesting plant and animal life. Tha's why I invited you to stay. You may have missed that. It's why I'm wearing a parper bag over my face so you won't have to see my eyes...but I can see yourrs he he he!. It also prevents ZM looking at my pink glistening gums.