The Married Aspie Cafe Thread (discussion of marriage, etc.)

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Postpaleo, I'm sorry you ended up on that end of things. I made sure that didn't happen to my ex and kids. But it is important for the woman not to bow down and lick the ex's boots when it comes to finances, property and business.

I don't take pity, I do take mastercard s**t, I'm a suvivor, might take me a while but I'll do it and don't mean to play troll and hijack this thread. Been thinking about this survivor thing and how we got to these ripe old ages. I'll do something with it that might shock a few and still bring out a little aspie dino pride. Lol, probably have to be riminded, a mind is a terrible thing to waste, but guess it too comes with age. You're doing great, I know it hurts and I hate the words, this too will pass, so I won't use them.

2 sides to everystory is all I'm saying. Yeah he has some serious problems of his own, but he should keep those and work through them and not direct that at you or the kids. So yeah from how I see it from this distance he's a jerk. But again not knowing him, that isn't fair either.

Some good advice floating around here, but a lawyer, while not pleasent and brings in the system, well sometimes the real word has to be delt with those that understand it better. Pleased and sad that you are going to do it. But a very good call as I see it.

Last edited by postpaleo on 10 May 2007, 12:45 pm, edited 1 time in total.

Couldn't agree more. I was raised by a mother that was a libber before the coined term existed, that in itself wasn't really to good. Domineering mother, well I've worked through that one. But see traces of it in my shyness, probably one of the reasons I have a bad habit I need to keep an eye on for control issues. But I did see her side to it. She learned it from her's. Now there was a woman. All to often woman become f*****g door mats and that will set up another rant of mine. I wonder if one can be a pro ranter, I think they do it with humor though. They generaly fall in to two types one baits you in to listen to the funny and lets you go because they want you to come back, like Twian, Will Rodgers. Then there is the type, like Swift, who invites you in a doesn't care if you come back for more. Swifts best work wasn't Gulivers Travels, he did one on the plight of the Irish and suggested they should eat there young, that was a master piece. Think it maybe one of the very best ever done.

Let's take all this emotion out and I'll tell you why I said get a good lawyer and make copies of everything. Here's the deal that went down with us ten years ago when my dh did what OCD people do after they hit every major life stressor in two years. He shut down. Literally. I flew in and it was like someone shut off the light and he was gone. Literally. There was obviously much more that happened because two years after that was when I finally left because he was in total denial and on his way down (and about to take me with him). That isn't a good position to be in, especially when you are as attached to someone as I am to him. I left to save me, as horrible as that sounds, but he wouldn't do anything and that was all that was left, so I did it. Then begins the nightmare and why I give the advice.


Forget the kids part and child support. We don't have any. You'd think it would be a piece of cake. Two people not fighting, split all their possessions together. He helps her move. They start dividing the finances (what little is together). Should be easy, but when one person is shut down, that can become the worst nightmare and they aren't even being mean. You have no idea how bad that can get.

Two years after she leaves, they have finally sold one house. That's after she moves a friend in to make sure it can be shown because no telling if he's even out of bed or what shape it's in. She's moved four hours away to get away because that's the only way she'll stay gone. She goes to closing, they do not fight and one is down. She tells him to remortgage the second because she knows much better than to quit deed a house she has a co-mortgage on. You end up with a mortgage on a house someone else owns if one day he dies in traffic and leaves it to the new wife. I work in banking and I've seen this happen more times than I can count (usually the wife, but it works both ways). Every one was told to quit deed by a lawyer. Lawyers are notorious for telling you to do that. Do not do it. Confront the lawyer and they will have to admit I am right. Quit deeding signs away all rights forever and they can leave it to who they want. They don't have to be mean to do that to you. Most won't even realize that's what will happen, but it will. NEVER quit deed a house until you are off the mortgage.

Even if that didn't happen, one day they could be driving along and die or simply stop paying the mortgage. Because you are no longer primary, you won't know until it's in foreclosure because they will be contacting him not you (or vice versa). Your credit will be ruined and you wouldn't even have had a chance to fix it. What's more, you can't even pay it current and sell it because you signed away all your rights. Think it can't get worse? You better think again.

It doesn't end there. Think it's better if he (or she) quit deeds it to you and stays on the mortgage? Think again. Legally, they can take out equity loans or second mortgages on their own without your knowledge in their name only. They can default on those for any number of reasons that have nothing to do with being mean to you. They could lose a job or become disabled. Life happens. Guess what? It's not your loan. You can't even find out any information on that loan legally. But one day they will show up and take your house. Just like that. There won't be one thing you can do.


Moral of the story is, sell the house. This is where the real nightmare begins when one person just has a breakdown and isn't even fighting with you.

So, you've sold one house after a year of nightmare. You tell him to get a mortgage for the rental house in yet another city and you'll quit deed it to him. You've already done it with your car (his was paid). You think this is no big deal. He knows everything I just told you and he has no issue with it. Unfortunately, he is no longer functional. He's in the pit of despair and can't even help himself. So you coax and you wait. He says he's doing things but it goes on and on and still you both own it and the renters have left because they can't get him to do even the simplest things. (I'm talking even hire someone to do it.) He's just shut down. But, he wanted to keep that house and you don't want it or the equity in it. You two have already split things how you want. All he has to do is remortgage the house. Easy, right? So one day his sister calls. He's gotten so bad he's lost his job (that's after his boss forces him to see a shrink) and now he can't remortgage. Now he can't pay the mortgage and you haven't known for over a month. You don't even know if the payments have been made. More stupid you.

It gets worse. You're still married and now he's in a private facility. So now you have a house you don't want in a city you don't live in that he has to sign off on to do anything with it. On top of that, you now are looking at a $30,000 bill for his care because he has no health insurance since he lost his job, it's past the 30 days to pay for his health care as private and he'd have to fill out the paperwork anyway and you don't have him on your health insurance because he had his own. Legally, you are responsible because you are married. Nice, huh? And you two haven't even been fighting.

So now you go to a lawyer. You know what you get told? Yes, legally you must pay the $30K if he doesn't find a way. No you can't find out his finances without hiring a private eye because you have no legal standing, you can try to force him to sell the house, but if he fights you or simply doesn't sign, you won't be able to complete the sale and you will have to keep going back to court over and over trying to force it, but since now he appears to be doing something about himself, no judge will sign that, since he's in a facility (you're now responsible to pay), you can't even get him declared incompetent so you can sell that damn house because this is Florida and those laws are tough to protect old people, but the lawyers will gladly take your $2,500 to file for you. What's more, any court worth its salt, so your lawyer tells you, will make you pay alimony since he can't work right now and this can go on forever because at this point you've been married 17 years.

At this point you lose it in the lawyer's office and scream at the lawyer, for $2,500 I can have his kneecaps broken and force him to sign whatever I want! (And you aren't even angry at him! You're frustrated by the LAW!) The lawyer says, I can't hear that. You say, I can't hear what you are telling me! You feel like you're suddenly insane because you aren't even angry with him. You aren't even fighting with him and it's all come down to this.

In the end, no lawyer can help you. Your own husband cashed out his company stock to pay that 30K and support himself. You send your friend, who is a realtor and sold the first house, with a power of a attorney over every last thing he has, and she gets him to sign it and notarizes it. She tells you he has lost it so bad he doesn't even know you are gone. You finally get a realtor, get the house ready and sell it. You give him all the proceeds, minus the money to get it ready.

You two eventually reconcile because after all, you are very attached to each other and this is all a nightmare to you both. But, the fear of what you've learned never goes away. Even the simplest break ups with no fights are not simple. It doesn't always take a mean spouse to cause a nightmare and all of us need to be aware of that. Just the law alone can make it ugly and impossible. If you think I'll ever trust it again, you're wrong. I didn't trust it much before, I completely distrust it now. We'd have been better off staying single and living together. The problem was never us, it was those stupid marriage laws that don't seem to help anyone and lawyers who actually couldn't do anything (remember this is civil court, not criminal so it's not so clear cut).


So when I tell you to get copies of everything and seek legal advice now, I'm not trying to screw the spouse. You need to know what you are doing financially because you can end up wiped out in a flash. It can end up costing both of you even if you do get back together. Best to learn from what I knew and what I learned. You would be very surprised just how many lawyers will not tell you what I just did. You want to know how many lawyers I've known who told either side what I just told you? Zero. That's how many. They will admit it if confronted. You want a good lawyer test? Tell them you don't want the house and he does. See what they tell you.


So SG, back up everything at the business. If you own the business, he's your employee unless he has legal paperwork saying he's a partner. You're the boss. Make him sign an employment contract now saying he cannot take any intellectual property or work for a competitor for two years. It's standard. I sign them everywhere I go. Any employment lawyer can get you one. It will give you standing if he tries to steal anything or open up a competitive business and steal your clients. You have to take steps to protect yourself IN CASE it gets ugly. You never have to use it, but protect yourself.

Same with the car and the mortgage. Get your own credit cards and start now to break those things up. Credit cards are easy to get and close AS LONG as you say it's not because you are separated. They are told not to close your account if you say that. I know. I wrote those rules into User Manuals they use at work. They'll close it down so you can't charge, but they won't close out the account. They leave that to the lawyers.

You can be fair and smart. Do it. You are in the numb mode now. That will pass so do what you can now. Don't put it off. Start methodically going through the house and recording everything you have. You'll need to eventually. List every single item. Miss nothing. Keep a journal of everything he does. The hotel, what he spends with the kids, everything. You need it. Names, dates, times, etc. Everything. Details.

Being smart is not being mean. It's not being careless with what you've both worked a lifetime to build. Take care of it and take care of you. You are going to need it. Even in what seems to be the best circumstances, you are going to need it.

Last edited by ZanneMarie on 10 May 2007, 1:29 pm, edited 2 times in total.

Who was that masked woman, I think I'd like to reach out and touch her. But I see this guy that would like to chase me with a baseball bat 2x4.

What she said.

LOL And he would. I'm already in trouble and locked in the gilded cage again. Don't push it. God knows I can't handle him flipping his lid again. I'll be in the nuthouse this time!

Because there are kids involved and the father moved out of the family home the courts will give the house and other property related to the maintenance of the children to the parent living with the children. It is fairly straight forward.

You may think that but it is not so in my state (or in most). It's no fault and they could care less. It's split evenly and the courts will do nothing but have him quit deed if she wants to keep it or tell him to sell it with her if she doesn't. And I've never seen a court in our state make them pay property related maintenance. Ever. That's with kids. Divorce laws vary by state and in every state, they are civil which means he could fight it for years and there would be squat you could do but take him back to court. Kids or not. Same with child support. You have to keep going back to court if he doesn't pay unless you live in a state where the state collects it and pays you whether he pays or not. It's all arbitrary.

He can even say he just wanted a two week break and she knew it was temporary. That's a he said she said and no way to prove either. A hotel is not a permanent residence. What she does have is emails and they (so far as we know) don't say he wants to leave permanently. He also has those.

I think you are in Canada, Blessed? It might be different there. I don't know Canadian divorce laws. I think that's where you said you lived though.

Thank goodness I live in Canada. They call it family abandonment. Child support is the same, though. We have maintenance enforcement that is supposed to take care of that for us, but my ex is behind 7 months and even though they have taken every possible action including federal and wage garnishees there is nothing they can do. I feel for Serious, I really do.

Chuck slips in quietly. Sees lots of support being given which is good. Sees lots of old wounds being revisited. Lots of past hurts and raw feelings bubbling to the surface of many.

Sets out a food tray of healthy finger foods: veggies, whole grain breads of various sorts, spinach dip, nuts, and fruit. Bottles of fresh, clear. cold water. A small tray of chunked dark chocolate.

Gently reminds everyone not to forget to eat. Pause, and breathe: deeply and slowly. Get up and stretch. Really reach for the sky!! ! UP on tiptoes!! !

Now, see if you have to use the bathroom. Wash your faces with clear clean cool water.

Set an alarm to go off in one hour. Lie down with eyes closed. See if your body needs sleep. If it does, go ahead and nap.

Me too. But, if she knows what to watch for she'll be better off and we all have advice to offer.

I'm glad you are in Canada as well. It does seem better even if he is behind. It's always something!

God almighty, this sounds complicated. The business is a legal partnership. I'm beginning to feel depressed again. I have all these emotions which seem to come from nowhere and suckerpunch me.

Just go one step at a time like you would with the business. It's complicated but less so if you start now to do these things. One step at a time. Breathe. Do some yoga. Look at these steps as controlling what you can control of your life. It is complicated, but I will tell you all that I know and so will most others. You are not alone in this.


Oh, another good thing for you to remember that I forgot, but you need to know. Banks by law do not have to recognize divorce settlements and do not. That paper is useless even though they tell you otherwise. It can't be enforced. So don't listen to that. It's right in banking rules that they don't have to recognize it. If they do at all, it's courtesy and can be thrown out if they are bought out.

Last edited by ZanneMarie on 10 May 2007, 2:30 pm, edited 1 time in total.

Good idea! Time for a time-out! You know I loves ya SeriousGirl! Time to take time for your body's needs for a few!

I know this isn't the type of music people here listen to, but this one is for you, Serious, from me!

You feel like a candle in a hurricane
Just like a picture with a broken frame
Alone and helpless,
Like you've lost your fight
But you'll be alright, you'll be alright.

Chorus:
'Cause when push comes to shove
you taste what you're made of
You might bend 'til you break
'Cause it's all you can take
On your knees you look up
Decide you've had enough
You get mad, you get strong
Wipe your hands, Shake it off
Then you stand, then you stand.

Life's like a novel with the end ripped out,
The edge of a canyon with only one way down,
Take what you're given before it's gone,
And start holdin' on, Keep holdin' on

'Cause when push comes to shove
you taste what you're made of
You might bend 'til you break
'Cause it's all you can take
On your knees you look up
Decide you've had enough
You get mad, you get strong
Wipe your hands, Shake it off
Then you stand, then you stand.

Every time you get up and get back in the race,
One more small piece of you starts to fall into place.

'Cause when push comes to shove
you taste what you're made of
You might bend 'til you break
'Cause it's all you can take
On your knees you look up
Decide you've had enough
You get mad, you get strong
Wipe your hands, Shake it off
Then you stand, then you stand.

Rascall Flatts "Stand"

Blessed, that was beautiful.