Disturbing comments on a poll I created...

Post Reply New Topic

I don't feel strongly about incest, I feel strongly and STRIDENTLY about civil intellectual debate.

People who vandalize intellectual forums must not be tolerated.

I was discussing incest with other people on one of the threads in the PPR section, and it got me curius to see what other people thought of it, hence why I created the poll.

Are you able to delete disturbing comments made on the poll?

When a poll speaks to a policy question, people often "read between the lines" to see the intention that lies behind the question.

Given that incest is a criminal offence in all US jurisdictions (as far as I am aware), then some person might take the view that the intention behind the poll is to destabilize the public consensus behind maintaining incest taboos. While I don't know that this was your intention, it is open for someone to draw that conclusion, and to react accordingly.

After all, we don't post poll questions saying, "Do you think that armed robbery should be illegal?"

I disagree, though, with my peers who think the question should be off limits. To my way of thinking, no question is off limits. I may not agree with your politics, but I will not agree to censoring your debate.

Incidentally, neither at Common Law nor at Canon Law has the marriage of first cousins (or cousins in lesser degrees of affinity) been prohibited. Currently the list of jurisdictions that ban first-cousin marriage is small: the PRC, Taiwan, the Philippines, North and South Korea, India (India has separate marriage laws for different religions, so this is not a universal ban), and about 30 US states.

I'd leave the poll up if I were you and delete any comments that don't actually provide some sort of true debate, like name calling - which is useless. Could you put a little informational bit of text with it? For example, could you explain on the poll that you mean incest between consenting adults? Maybe you could change the question to something like "Should incestuous relationships between consenting adults be legal?"

Immediately jumping to the assumption that you mean child molestation within the family structure is clearly reading things into what you said since the word incest does NOT imply sex with an underage relative. Many societies have been built on the incestuous relationships of the most powerful families. I'd urge those who had such responses to be sure they take into consideration the history, significance, and purpose of incest. It has often been reserved for the most elite and is a privilege meant to strengthen familial lines and power, not as an excuse to abuse children.

I guess I was thinking it wasn't an adult "autism" issue, but I can move it again if that is what posters feel is better.

As for moving in the first place ... this is a thread I was asked to look at by a member upset by it. I very rarely wander into these things on my own. By the time I'm evaluating, I'm pretty much already a second opinion of some sort. I do try to keep my thought process accessible to the members and am open to listening to differences of opinion on what should be done. It's about trying to serve the best interests of the membership as a whole, and not just making decisions based on my own opinions.

The problem is that it is really neither. This isn't an adult life issue either, unless you know, a lot of adults here have incestuous relations. I just think it might make more sense in "Adult autism issues" in that the problem is that this is more of a sexual issue than an issue about adult living. "Adult autism issues" is mostly a forum about sex from what I've seen.


Hmm.... yeah, I don't understand being upset by it that much, as it seems clear that Descartes is really asking a question about consensual incestual relations, rather than "is it ok to rape your own children?" or any permutation of the latter. As such, I don't think there is anything actually inappropriate about this thread itself.
Here is what I see though:
1) This kind of question, if individuals don't learn it needs to be suppressed, can be socially harmful to those who openly ask it, and thus a more mature mindset towards it might be important.
2) This kind of question if seen by younger viewers or adults can tarnish their view of WP as a good supportive place for people.
3) Suppressing this kind of question can be seen as a suppression of legitimate philosophical questioning, as I think a good number of people regard this as a legitimate question.
4) Suppressing this kind of question can be seen as a suppression of the unique perspectives held by some autistics on the matter, as this question is taboo, but not wrong, and the ability to see beyond taboos and conventional ideas is in some ways an ability.

I dunno, if nobody is offended, could you (without identifying the person) identify the specific problem with the thread and how it is actually inappropriate?

As I noted, someone was offended, feeling that the topic could greatly upset anyone involved in a childhood incident, and we do have that vague rule against posting offensive material. Which I call vague, because when we're discussing something that can be interpreted in numerous ways offense is in the eye of the beholder. So ... Instead of deciding to lock or squash, I moved it to a place where trickier issues do get discussed, hoping that those more likely to be offended would be less likely to wander in. My feeble attempt at compromise.

I thought this thread was about the reactions to a sensitive topic, not the topic itself.

Another issue DW_a_mom, is that the PPR forum can be read by guests on the site, in the adult forum, the discussion can only be seen by members.

well, can you always expect maturity from people on social networking sites such as facebook? Most people are stupid by nature, and their judgements are usually innacurate and very superficial, especially relating to these issues. But well, maybe that has to do with aspie traits or something else and I don't see the point of social networking anyway.

Anyway, as we didn't see your post in facebook, I cannot say if wether you did clarify that you meant consenting adults, as some people are 'brilliant' to assume that the definition of incest = child abuse. So I believe it is important to make that clarification before asking the question.

Here's a link to the poll question:

http://apps.facebook.com/yoursay/result.php?pid=49883&refer=tm42196

After looking it over I still don't see a problem with the poll at all. It's a valid question and those individuals are overreacting. The poll leaves the option for consenting adults. I don't think you should take down the poll unless it makes you uncomfortable.

I hope you now realize that you shouldn't have figured that.

Some people, when they hear "incest" what they think of is child sexual abuse within a family. Because that's when we tend to hear about it.

Additionally, some people, without thinking about it, they have an attitude that if it's wrong, it should be illegal. They assume that asking the question of if it should be illegal or not is asking the question of maybe it's okay (rather than a given that it's not). Combine that with thinking of incest as parent-child sex (as opposed to siblings or cousins or such), and, well, understandable that someone would (due to their assumptions) think of you as a "sick f***". Though, thinking that and posting it are two different things.

My opinion, yes, delete the poll.

P.S. After looking at the poll, I think, if you want a poll, recreating with clearer options would be better. I read "legal in all circumstances" as including child molestation. And you don't have an option that excludes that without saying all incest should be illegal.

Last edited by Mysty on 25 Jun 2010, 9:15 am, edited 1 time in total.

Well, in my view, abortion is wrong. So, "It's okay, because we can kill a defective baby" doesn't work for me.

I do see a questionable phrasing. "Legal in all circumstances" isn't a good way to put something that people associate with rape.

Mysty apparently saw the same issue as well.

It might be worth it to delete the poll and redo it.