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TallBen
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18 Jun 2010, 11:08 am

Curiosity wrote:
I tend to have things pile up on top of one another and when there is finally one too many, I lose it. I guess I thought it was anger, but a therapist said perhaps it is really acute frustration. I think that may be true. When that one thing too many happens, it is like I go into a rage. I just can't handle anymore and do not know how to prevent the rage. In truth, I think that I stay anxious about having to deal with life - and life seems to be getting more and more difficult these days. Things often do not work correctly. Consumers are left having to get on the phone and punch a bunch of numbers to reach a human, etc.


Dear God - this sounds just like me!

I tend to be a 'soft touch' with people, and let them get away with things that I shouldn't; I don't say anything, but the frustation and resentment back up and then - boom! Off I go....

My present relationship is very difficult because of this. I let my girlfriend treat me in ways I don't like, as I hate the confrontation that is invariably involved with saying 'no', and I find the requirement to explain why I don't like it, don't agree or don't want to go along with whatever it is so, so difficult. Then after a while, the frustration builds up, and my anger takes over.

At least my anger expresses itself verbally, not in violence. The only times I have really been involved in any violence have been when I have drunk either Stella Artois (nasty fizzy lager for those that ain't familiar with it) or Absynthe...so now I don't.



alone
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22 Jun 2010, 3:36 pm

I do alot of fuming and walking around cussing. They are meltdowns but almost always because something has happened that makes no sense. There is no logical progression of behavior or facts for me to understand. Before the meltdown I am digging and examining something to find the logic in what has happened, all of which just gets me all going farther into the mess. I can't handle complicated, when it is naturally a simple thing. I can handle complicated if everyone is very careful to do their part, even if it is slow. I like when things are done slow and careful.

:?



hans66
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04 Jul 2010, 3:38 pm

I almost don't have anger problems. If there is a conflict, I want to talk with him and try to find a compromise that is acceptable by both parties. There are situations that make me angry. Then I could do things that aren't aggressive themselves but speed up losing my anger. That is playing a game, World of Warcraft for example, singing, playing on my synth, walking. Or I find distraction or I do nothing, just wait... and slowly my anger disappears. Yelling and screaming wouldn't help a thing and make things worse. The other party will be less willing to work on a solution to the conflict.

I often feel happy and I smile often and laugh at the smallest jokes as long as I get the clue. I might be approachable by people because of that reason.



violetchild
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07 Jul 2010, 11:02 am

Michhsta wrote:
Thanks everyone for your replies.......it is great to get this feedback and know that I am not alone......

16 years ago I was dx with Borderline Personality disorder, PTSD ad Schizoaffective.......I have been on Lithium, Thorazine, Zyprexa, Seroquel, anti depressants and sodium valproate.......I have also been hospitalised due to rage attacks. I have skirted very close to the law in my late adolescent years going in to my 20's. My psychologist and mental health team did their best to keep me safe, other people safe and me out of being incarcerated. I have done 10 years of anger management and all sorts of stuff. I have gone on a long journey of forgiveness.......forgiving myself, forgiving others and most importantly, asking for forgiveness. I have behaved in the most dishonourable ways in the past. Since the Aspergers dx which is quite recent, all my past dx are in question, although I cannot change the past and have no wish to do so.

I am no closer to liking my human brethren much (I am a terrible misanthropist) but am learning to love myself so that I may love others more.

I am also going through terrible hormone disfunction which does not help on the rage scale........I am much better at managing the rage.......but no closer to understanding it...... :cry:

Yep, I call it "my wolfie"........my massive canine friend that walks beside me.......he is a much my friend as he is my foe........my indelible alter ego......the picture of my rage.......

I like growing up.......at 36 I still feel like a 5 year old girl, with a werewolf for a best friend, and the attitude of an alpha male of my pack. Gosh, I am difficult sometimes......

Big thanks everyone.......I feel better.

Michhsta


Michhsta .. you sound so much like me. Im 39yrs but feel like im only 8 yrs old (sometimes even younger). I've been diagnosed with Borderline personality disorder and also thou i havent been diagnosed.. have been very close to getting a PTSD diagnoses (some people have thought im schizo). Ive got into trouble with the law due to my explosions and lack of ability to self regulate and control, i ended up in jail. I also have bad hormonal dysfunction which is making things all the worst.

I've only just been offically diagnosed with Asperger's .. so have doubts on the previous things ive been diagnosed with. Im sure i wouldnt have been diagnosed with the BPD if it had been noticed i had Asperger's earlier.



violetchild
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07 Jul 2010, 11:17 am

Robin_Hood wrote:
I can go from mildly irritated to fuming mad in a second. I think I wanted to rip her head off at the time. Needless to say that relationship went sour very quickly. :oops:

The weirdest thing is that I'm pretty laid back for the most part except when I get irritated, lied to or mistreated then the little black thing inside me surfaces.

Has anyone blacked out in a rage? I have once or twice.. Couldn't remember what happened afterwards and all I can remember beforehand is seeing red.


Same here..situations can make me go from calm to fuming mad in just seconds. I too black out during a rage or when im very distressed and cant remember then what happened afterwards :( .. i hear then from others what i did but may only remember like half of it and some of it not at all



Dithra
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07 Jul 2010, 5:49 pm

Have had a read of the stuff you guys experience with your rage. I think I err on the side of those who repress, until the 'final straw' sets me off. As it did today. Here is a paraphrase of an exchange between me and a boss this afternoon:

Me: So, this thing?
Her: Yes, the thing. Explain, explain, justify, blatantly obvious unfair bit...
Me: (leaping on the unfairness) GRaaaaaahhhhh!! !!
Her: If you would just let me finish
Me (meekly, small voice): Yes, sorry (Internally: Graaaaaaaahhhhh)
Her: Explain, justify, unfair unfair
Me: (Calmly, very controlled) Please notice this is unfair
Her: I do, but explain justify unfair
Me (apologetically but firmly): It is still unfair, please take seriously.
Her: Blah blah blah (I've tuned out now cos internal stuff is doing my head in. Feel tearful shaky and ashamed)

Thankfully this happened at the end of the day. I was able to hide and cry after that. Does it sound familiar? (I'm kinda new to this?)



gollymolly
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15 Aug 2010, 7:42 am

I came looking on the net tonight especially to find out about how others experience this anger thing. I am better these days, what with my medication, with understanding my aspergers, a lot of work, and being off dairy products, oddly. But I still struggle on a daily basis, more of a high level irritability I guess, with outbursts. They do come from frustration mainly I think, but unfortunately, frustration over every day things that cannot change, which makes it difficult to avoid!

I used to be so eaten up with guilt over my behaviour, though it wasn't physical, but still, behaviour can be bad without being violent. And I would repress with everyone outside the family, where I feel "safe", so I'd feel guilty that the very ones I loved were copping it worst. But it was overwhelming, seeing-red anger. I don't feel I'm so bad anymore, but still, I could definitely improve.

I also experienced the whole 0-60 thing. I think now that it was mostly because I don't seem to recognise the stress I'm feeling until it's overwhelming; I don't feel the symptoms coming on until it's all over, rover. Now I am alert to recognise my daily circumstances, and when I can expect that I must be stressed, even if I don't feel it, and sometimes seeing my behaviour change, like, the housework piling up more than usual, or being more snappy (than usual). When I'm not stressed, I can be such a lovely, patient, kind person - but then there's the alterego.

And then there's the anger and rudeness that come from not being able to express feelings or objections in a more subtle, or adult, way. I further eroded my relationship with my mother just today in this way, by being brutally "honest". And of course, this reads as unforgivably rude. I probably am, I just don't intend to be.

In fact, I think the reason I so carefully avoid conflict generally, is because 1) the other person's mouth always works better than mine, and 2) I have no idea how to handle conflict reasonably - I will either give in, or get pissed off and be rude, probably childishly. Because I am afraid of this, I swing too far the other way, and practice avoidance.

I very much appreciate this topic, and the honesty of the posters; I think openness helps other people, as yours has helped me. It really sucks to think you're just a bad person. I think I'll go take my vit D supplements now...



marshall
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16 Aug 2010, 12:18 am

Wow. This hits close to home. This is a really hard topic. Often I don't even have the heart to share this stuff even with therapists for fear that they won't understand, or worse they might try to shame me or tell me how I'm a horrible person. Whenever that happens it only makes the anger WORSE. It's that bad. HUGE issue for me. Even worse is the fact that I'm male, over 6 feet, tall and well over 200 lbs.

The absolute worst incident that's ever happened to me was getting into a fight with a random road-rager at a gas station off the interstate. My father was following me and I had just passed a semi (we were driving together but in two separate cars). My father was trying to keep up with me and when he passed the semi he accidentally pulled in front of this guy, who was probably speeding at 85 mph or more, forcing him to slow to 65 or so. The guy drove right up to my dads bumper. I saw none of this since I was well ahead at the time. Anyways, 5 minutes later we both stopped at a gas station mini-mart to use the restroom and buy water and on the way out this random guy walks up to my dad and starts yelling profanities, seemingly out of the blue.

My dad just brushed him off and walked away but as I walked past I looked at the guy. He scowled and remarked "what are you looking at". At that instant the image of childhood bullies flashed into my mind and I lunged at the guy, grabbed him by the throat and tried to force him to the ground. I don't remember clearly but he was a bit heavier than me and managed to throw his weight at me, pinning my arm against the door for a few seconds. I don't recall any pain at all but he clearly hit me quite hard in the nose once or twice before I managed to break free.

The next thing I remember is him running from me and my father and the gas station clerk grabbing at me and holding me back. At that point I noticed the blood running down my chin and I felt a second flash of rage even stronger than the first. At that point I was so blind with rage that I was ready to start swinging at my father and the clerk for holding me back and letting the guy get away but it did dawn on me that it was a no win situation for me. If I injured anyone they would be more likely press charges against me and the other guy would get off scot free for bloodying my nose since he could claim self defense. I managed to hold myself back from attacking any more people and instead dashed to my own car and slammed my fist down on the hood as hard as I could multiple times until there was a large dent and my hand was severely bruised. At one point I was thinking about getting in my car and committing suicide by driving into something as fast as I could.

Anyways, neither my nose nor my wrist were broken, the guy drove off and nothing was reported to the police. All that happened was I had to spend the night at the Holiday Inn since I was in no shape to drive anymore that day. It took several days for the recurring feelings of rage and violent fantasies to go away but I eventually got better.

These days I have a prescription of fast absorbing tranquilizer medication that I can use in case I ever get that angry again. Other than that I'm really not sure how to cope. I'm not sure if anger management will work for me as in the moments where I rage I honestly don't want to control myself. I don't have the will. It's hard to describe but it's like anger and hatred is my only way out of feeling like my "self" will be completely annihilated. In the moment even the idea of "self control" seems like something thats being imposed on my by others for others sake and it only increases my level of desperation. The only emotion stronger than anger is fear and fear is really the only thing that stops me from something truly horrible when I'm feeling that bad.

Anyways, this feels rather incomplete but I don't have the energy to write any more at the moment. :(



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16 Aug 2010, 1:27 am

marshall wrote:
The absolute worst incident

(chop)


is that different than a massive meltdown? i'm still confused by all this .. where the lines are between irritability / meltdown / rage, as to me they seem quite intertwined. i don't know what can be managed vs. what needs to run its course.

i've had a few similar incidents, to a smaller degree. once i pinned a guy against a wall by the throat for sticking his hand up a girl's skirt. i'm not a very big person (and female), but i imagine i scared the daylights out of him.


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Michhsta
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16 Aug 2010, 3:00 am

marshall wrote:
Wow. This hits close to home. This is a really hard topic. Often I don't even have the heart to share this stuff even with therapists for fear that they won't understand, or worse they might try to shame me or tell me how I'm a horrible person. Whenever that happens it only makes the anger WORSE. It's that bad. HUGE issue for me. Even worse is the fact that I'm male, over 6 feet, tall and well over 200 lbs.

The absolute worst incident that's ever happened to me was getting into a fight with a random road-rager at a gas station off the interstate. My father was following me and I had just passed a semi (we were driving together but in two separate cars). My father was trying to keep up with me and when he passed the semi he accidentally pulled in front of this guy, who was probably speeding at 85 mph or more, forcing him to slow to 65 or so. The guy drove right up to my dads bumper. I saw none of this since I was well ahead at the time. Anyways, 5 minutes later we both stopped at a gas station mini-mart to use the restroom and buy water and on the way out this random guy walks up to my dad and starts yelling profanities, seemingly out of the blue.

My dad just brushed him off and walked away but as I walked past I looked at the guy. He scowled and remarked "what are you looking at". At that instant the image of childhood bullies flashed into my mind and I lunged at the guy, grabbed him by the throat and tried to force him to the ground. I don't remember clearly but he was a bit heavier than me and managed to throw his weight at me, pinning my arm against the door for a few seconds. I don't recall any pain at all but he clearly hit me quite hard in the nose once or twice before I managed to break free.

The next thing I remember is him running from me and my father and the gas station clerk grabbing at me and holding me back. At that point I noticed the blood running down my chin and I felt a second flash of rage even stronger than the first. At that point I was so blind with rage that I was ready to start swinging at my father and the clerk for holding me back and letting the guy get away but it did dawn on me that it was a no win situation for me. If I injured anyone they would be more likely press charges against me and the other guy would get off scot free for bloodying my nose since he could claim self defense. I managed to hold myself back from attacking any more people and instead dashed to my own car and slammed my fist down on the hood as hard as I could multiple times until there was a large dent and my hand was severely bruised. At one point I was thinking about getting in my car and committing suicide by driving into something as fast as I could.

Anyways, neither my nose nor my wrist were broken, the guy drove off and nothing was reported to the police. All that happened was I had to spend the night at the Holiday Inn since I was in no shape to drive anymore that day. It took several days for the recurring feelings of rage and violent fantasies to go away but I eventually got better.

These days I have a prescription of fast absorbing tranquilizer medication that I can use in case I ever get that angry again. Other than that I'm really not sure how to cope. I'm not sure if anger management will work for me as in the moments where I rage I honestly don't want to control myself. I don't have the will. It's hard to describe but it's like anger and hatred is my only way out of feeling like my "self" will be completely annihilated. In the moment even the idea of "self control" seems like something thats being imposed on my by others for others sake and it only increases my level of desperation. The only emotion stronger than anger is fear and fear is really the only thing that stops me from something truly horrible when I'm feeling that bad.

Anyways, this feels rather incomplete but I don't have the energy to write any more at the moment. :(


Marshall,

That is me. It is exactly the same blood red void I face in times of rage. Nothing else exists in those times. I was labelled a psychopath for these reasons. I cannot explain why it happens, only that it does.

Take good care of yourself.....

Mics


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marshall
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16 Aug 2010, 3:07 am

katzefrau wrote:
marshall wrote:
The absolute worst incident

(chop)


is that different than a massive meltdown? i'm still confused by all this .. where the lines are between irritability / meltdown / rage, as to me they seem quite intertwined. i don't know what can be managed vs. what needs to run its course.

i've had a few similar incidents, to a smaller degree. once i pinned a guy against a wall by the throat for sticking his hand up a girl's skirt. i'm not a very big person (and female), but i imagine i scared the daylights out of him.


I don't know either. My experience is that once a rage/meltdown starts I really don't have control. I can control the method in which I take it out but I can't control the degree of violence. Personally I can't imagine how any of the "appropriate" methods of expressing anger discussed in an anger management class would ever be sufficient. I simply cannot attain any relief through those things as my anger is in an entirely different realm from what "normal" people seem to experience. I can choose to break an object rather than another person and I can choose to break something that's my own property rather than something that belongs to someone else but I can't choose to "calmly express my disapproval" or "go for a jog". That will NEVER work, and even the suggestion that it could is insulting.

I think the issue with me is that 1.) I'm male and 2.) I'm not small. If law enforcement gets involved I'm screwed. They won't hesitate to arrest me and make my life even more miserable.



zena4
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16 Aug 2010, 3:15 am

I've known people who loved the rush of adrenalin.
And I've known some who even longed for it, searched fight on purpose for instance.

They also used some other drugs to get other rushes.

In some circumstances, I could understand but it's true that it can be quite frightening and devastating - for everybody.



marshall
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16 Aug 2010, 3:40 am

Michhsta wrote:
Marshall,

That is me. It is exactly the same blood red void I face in times of rage. Nothing else exists in those times. I was labelled a psychopath for these reasons. I cannot explain why it happens, only that it does.

Take good care of yourself.....

Mics


It's ironic that they would label rage as psychopathy. I usually think of myself as the anti-psychopath and can relate to bee33 in being outraged by unfairness and injustice and the fact that NTs seem to be so complacent about it. Also, my strong intuition is that people with Antisocial Personality Disorder actually ARE in control of thier rages. Their rages are an ACT, a deliberate behavior choice that draws out an adrenaline rush for which they crave and experience PLEASURE from. I experience no pleasure from my rage. I only want relief and protection from my worst fears, fears of being beaten down emotionally and having my inner ego destroyed. Actually sociopaths are the very people who are most likely to trigger my rage with their disregard for justice and fairness and belief in "might makes right".



Michhsta
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16 Aug 2010, 4:32 am

marshall wrote:
Michhsta wrote:
Marshall,

That is me. It is exactly the same blood red void I face in times of rage. Nothing else exists in those times. I was labelled a psychopath for these reasons. I cannot explain why it happens, only that it does.

Take good care of yourself.....

Mics


It's ironic that they would label rage as psychopathy. I usually think of myself as the anti-psychopath and can relate to bee33 in being outraged by unfairness and injustice and the fact that NTs seem to be so complacent about it. Also, my strong intuition is that people with Antisocial Personality Disorder actually ARE in control of thier rages. Their rages are an ACT, a deliberate behavior choice that draws out an adrenaline rush for which they crave and experience PLEASURE from. I experience no pleasure from my rage. I only want relief and protection from my worst fears, fears of being beaten down emotionally and having my inner ego destroyed. Actually sociopaths are the very people who are most likely to trigger my rage with their disregard for justice and fairness and belief in "might makes right".


To be specific, I was labelled with "anti-social psychopathic behavioural problems" with traits of "anti-social PD". It was only because my rage attacks SEEMED unpredictable, controllable and with great malice and intent. On the contrary, I am generally a very caring, gentle person. I used to feel very guilty and afraid that I could not control them and worked harder and harder to try and control them because I was scared of myself. It took a very shrewd and intelligent therapist to notice and correlate symptoms of AS in my 36th year. I do not like to use the term "psychopath" and "ASPD" synonymously. Someone can have one without the other. It was a very heavy mantle to carry around and I was isolated because of it. Now that I know my triggers and why there are such consequences, I am better able to manage the outcome. In other words, I am very mindful of my environment, I am mindful of people and if it "feels" bad, I just get right out of there.

Mics


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katzefrau
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16 Aug 2010, 7:15 pm

this might be helpful:

Zeno wrote:
The social aspects of autism is important, but the underlying neural processes must be understood if this condition is ever to be properly managed. Telling the rest of the world to accept diversity is not going to work when an autistic individual falls into autistic withdrawal or worse, autistic rage. What these studies indicate is that autistic rage may be a result of processes that are not entirely controllable by the autistic individual.


from this post:
http://www.wrongplanet.net/postt34256.html

(my mother is a reference librarian - i am a chronic cross-referencer 8) )


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gollymolly
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16 Aug 2010, 8:15 pm

marshall wrote:
I don't know either. My experience is that once a rage/meltdown starts I really don't have control. I can control the method in which I take it out but I can't control the degree of violence. Personally I can't imagine how any of the "appropriate" methods of expressing anger discussed in an anger management class would ever be sufficient. I simply cannot attain any relief through those things as my anger is in an entirely different realm from what "normal" people seem to experience. I can choose to break an object rather than another person and I can choose to break something that's my own property rather than something that belongs to someone else but I can't choose to "calmly express my disapproval" or "go for a jog". That will NEVER work, and even the suggestion that it could is insulting.


I understand this. Luckily for me, getting physical is not generally a problem, since I'm female and 5'2. Except the time I saw red and threw a bag of bread across the room at my ex - he came back and threw it with force from a foot away from my head - yeah, that was a problem :lol:

But what you were saying about anger management, and how that wouldn't work - I completely agree. I describe those moments to myself as being times when it seems in my head like I have a choice of what to do or how to act, but really, my emotions have already made the choice for me. I hate being like that, but can do nothing about it - if I bottle it up, it just ends up coming out even worse. I guess it's like putting a lid on a boiling pot without turning the temperature down - one way or the other, the steam will come out, if not the entire boiling mass.

Someone earlier did mention exercise to the point of exhaution, I think - I wonder if that might not be effective, that's if it happens to be convenient to run off and do a mile or two.