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mitharatowen
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12 Feb 2009, 7:53 pm

Indeed "In the beginning, God created the heavens and the earth"

Do you see a timeline there? A simple statement: First God created heaven and earth. THEN he did this stuff.... continue.

You prove my point, sir.



digger1
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12 Feb 2009, 7:54 pm

contradicting part of what you said.

and the established doctrine at the time when modern geology was born stated that the Earth was a mere 6,000 years old. Sometime in October in the afternoon. Must've pissed of the Bronze-age people not having a history.



mitharatowen
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12 Feb 2009, 7:56 pm

Odd, you'd think they'd know better if their ancestors had passed down their millions of years of developmental knowledge.
It's a common misconception. I forgive you for buying into it.



graemephillips
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12 Feb 2009, 7:58 pm

digger1 wrote:
Think for yourself. Don't rely on some book supposedly written 2,000 years ago to tell you what to do and what not to do.

Did you know that according to doctrine, the Earth was the center of the universe?

Did you know that according to doctrine, the Earth was only 6,000 years old? Heh, try 4.5 BILLION years old.

Did you know that only 300 years ago, doctrine dictated that someone suffering from a mental illness had to go through trepanation (holes through the head and skull)?

And don't get me started on women, druids, pagans, Jews, blacks and homosexuals.


I am getting rather tired of people who go around quoting the actions of pseudo-Christians as being representative of the Christian scriptures. If you want to launch criticism of Christianity, please would you base your criticisms on the scriptures and not on the actions of people pretending to be Christians. I am not interested in what "doctrine" says, because "doctrine" is not the same as the scriptures.

On the earth being the centre of the universe, this was a nonsensical Roman Catholic doctrine and unfortunately, the Roman Catholic church still preaches things that are at odds with scriptural teaching.

As for the age-of-the-earth debate, there are scientific arguments supporting both positions, but unfortunately, only the "billions" position ever gets to have its arguments represented as being mainstream. I myself am on the fence, but I don't think it makes much difference anyway: - there are many parts of the scriptures that would generate nonsensical interpretations if you interpreted them literally and if science conclusively proved (which it hasn't done yet) the young-earth creation account to be wrong, it would not challenge my faith in the slightest.

I make no apology for Christianity's opposition to homosexuality: - it is extremely arrogant for us to think we are better able than God to know the difference between good and bad. I also make no apology for the fact that Christianity prescribes different roles for men and women, although it should be noted that whilst the roles are different, we are all equal in Jesus (see Galatians 3:28). Whilst I think the Holocaust was not the best course of action, I make no apology for Christianity's opposition to Jews who haven't recognised Jesus as their lord and saviour and I make no apology for Christianity's opposition to various practices that humans think are ok, but are not according to biblical teaching. However, there is no part of the Bible I know about that expresses any opposition to blacks, innit?

I will happily believe a 2,000-year-old book. For instance, an experiment was done with different dimensions of boats and their seaworthiness and the experiments found that the boat with proportions similar to Noah's Ark were by far the most seaworthy. Obviously, nobody in biblical times would have understood about marine engineering so well.



digger1
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12 Feb 2009, 7:58 pm

the what?

And just because something is written doesn't make it so. Heck, I could jot something down now. Would that make what I write gospel? I'd even go so far as to call myself an apostle. Mike, the fourteenth apostle.



mitharatowen
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12 Feb 2009, 8:00 pm

Trust me, I could argue with you until the cows come home. I could provide just as much evidence (yes, evidence) as you could and at the end neither of us would be any closer to changing our minds.

However, just because you don't understand the evidence or do not agree with it does not give you the right to go around insulting other people's intelligence. I have a tendency to jump to the defense of those being attacked. I apologise for engaging with you in argument.



digger1
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12 Feb 2009, 8:04 pm

graemephillips wrote:
digger1 wrote:
Think for yourself. Don't rely on some book supposedly written 2,000 years ago to tell you what to do and what not to do.

Did you know that according to doctrine, the Earth was the center of the universe?

Did you know that according to doctrine, the Earth was only 6,000 years old? Heh, try 4.5 BILLION years old.

Did you know that only 300 years ago, doctrine dictated that someone suffering from a mental illness had to go through trepanation (holes through the head and skull)?

And don't get me started on women, druids, pagans, Jews, blacks and homosexuals.


I am getting rather tired of people who go around quoting the actions of pseudo-Christians as being representative of the Christian scriptures. If you want to launch criticism of Christianity, please would you base your criticisms on the scriptures and not on the actions of people pretending to be Christians. I am not interested in what "doctrine" says, because "doctrine" is not the same as the scriptures.

On the earth being the centre of the universe, this was a nonsensical Roman Catholic doctrine and unfortunately, the Roman Catholic church still preaches things that are at odds with scriptural teaching.

As for the age-of-the-earth debate, there are scientific arguments supporting both positions, but unfortunately, only the "billions" position ever gets to have its arguments represented as being mainstream. I myself am on the fence, but I don't think it makes much difference anyway: - there are many parts of the scriptures that would generate nonsensical interpretations if you interpreted them literally and if science conclusively proved (which it hasn't done yet) the young-earth creation account to be wrong, it would not challenge my faith in the slightest.

I make no apology for Christianity's opposition to homosexuality: - it is extremely arrogant for us to think we are better able than God to know the difference between good and bad. I also make no apology for the fact that Christianity prescribes different roles for men and women, although it should be noted that whilst the roles are different, we are all equal in Jesus (see Galatians 3:28). Whilst I think the Holocaust was not the best course of action, I make no apology for Christianity's opposition to Jews who haven't recognised Jesus as their lord and saviour and I make no apology for Christianity's opposition to various practices that humans think are ok, but are not according to biblical teaching. However, there is no part of the Bible I know about that expresses any opposition to blacks, innit?

I will happily believe a 2,000-year-old book. For instance, an experiment was done with different dimensions of boats and their seaworthiness and the experiments found that the boat with proportions similar to Noah's Ark were by far the most seaworthy. Obviously, nobody in biblical times would have understood about marine engineering so well.


ok.

Since when is love bad?

There's a version of a bible that says something about blacks. The King James bible. That's another thing; why so many versions and translations?



graemephillips
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12 Feb 2009, 8:11 pm

digger1 wrote:
graemephillips wrote:
digger1 wrote:
Think for yourself. Don't rely on some book supposedly written 2,000 years ago to tell you what to do and what not to do.

Did you know that according to doctrine, the Earth was the center of the universe?

Did you know that according to doctrine, the Earth was only 6,000 years old? Heh, try 4.5 BILLION years old.

Did you know that only 300 years ago, doctrine dictated that someone suffering from a mental illness had to go through trepanation (holes through the head and skull)?

And don't get me started on women, druids, pagans, Jews, blacks and homosexuals.


I am getting rather tired of people who go around quoting the actions of pseudo-Christians as being representative of the Christian scriptures. If you want to launch criticism of Christianity, please would you base your criticisms on the scriptures and not on the actions of people pretending to be Christians. I am not interested in what "doctrine" says, because "doctrine" is not the same as the scriptures.

On the earth being the centre of the universe, this was a nonsensical Roman Catholic doctrine and unfortunately, the Roman Catholic church still preaches things that are at odds with scriptural teaching.

As for the age-of-the-earth debate, there are scientific arguments supporting both positions, but unfortunately, only the "billions" position ever gets to have its arguments represented as being mainstream. I myself am on the fence, but I don't think it makes much difference anyway: - there are many parts of the scriptures that would generate nonsensical interpretations if you interpreted them literally and if science conclusively proved (which it hasn't done yet) the young-earth creation account to be wrong, it would not challenge my faith in the slightest.

I make no apology for Christianity's opposition to homosexuality: - it is extremely arrogant for us to think we are better able than God to know the difference between good and bad. I also make no apology for the fact that Christianity prescribes different roles for men and women, although it should be noted that whilst the roles are different, we are all equal in Jesus (see Galatians 3:28). Whilst I think the Holocaust was not the best course of action, I make no apology for Christianity's opposition to Jews who haven't recognised Jesus as their lord and saviour and I make no apology for Christianity's opposition to various practices that humans think are ok, but are not according to biblical teaching. However, there is no part of the Bible I know about that expresses any opposition to blacks, innit?

I will happily believe a 2,000-year-old book. For instance, an experiment was done with different dimensions of boats and their seaworthiness and the experiments found that the boat with proportions similar to Noah's Ark were by far the most seaworthy. Obviously, nobody in biblical times would have understood about marine engineering so well.


ok.

Since when is love bad?

There's a version of a bible that says something about blacks. The King James bible. That's another thing; why so many versions and translations?


Love is not bad and is strongly advocated by Christianity. However, it is a different thing to homosexuality.

I am glad the KJV has been updated, because nobody talks like that any more. I don't see anything wrong with frequently releasing new translations as a method of continuous improvement.

Could you please give me a reference for the part about the KJV opposing blacks innit?



slowmutant
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12 Feb 2009, 8:39 pm

digger1 wrote:
BellaDonna wrote:
I am thinking of becoming a christian. Going to church, stop using drugs and living a healthy 'sin free' life.

I believe in God. I think there has to be more out there than just aliens or we comes from monkeys because if that was the case where did monkeys comes from?

I am seriously considering alternative of christian life style and exploring thier beliefs.


my sympathies. :roll:

Thought you were smarter and more enlightened that that. :(

Panspermia. It's the theory that everything the Earth has came from elsewhere in the cosmos like water, amino acids and such.

take any given meteorite. It will contain upwards of 10% water. Back 4 BILLION years ago, the earth was being pummeled by thousands of them every day. We still are to an extent but our atmosphere burns up the small ones. Anyway, the water laden ones land, release the water, the water evaporates, it eventually pools and eventually there's a torrent of rain for thousands and thousands of years creating the oceans. Eventually, something triggered amino acids to combine and multiply creating complex life dependent on light to survive - taking in carbon dioxide and giving off oxygen paving the way for others like it to thrive and multiply.

Over several million more years, the creatures become more and more adapted to their environment. Some begin to become mobile, some stay where they are but exhibit greater height, more branches or even toxins. The ones that become mobile eventually become fish and later amphibians and later land lizards and later dinosaurs and later mammals and later primates (yes, also mammals) and later humans.

No god involved. We did it on our own, thank you very much.


Don't evangelize, digger1. Nobody likes that.



Averick
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12 Feb 2009, 8:44 pm

graemephillips wrote:
Love is not bad and is strongly advocated by Christianity. However, it is a different thing to homosexuality.


How so?



mitharatowen
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12 Feb 2009, 8:49 pm

digger1 wrote:
Eventually, something triggered amino acids to combine and multiply creating complex life dependent on light to survive - taking in carbon dioxide and giving off oxygen paving the way for others like it to thrive and multiply.

Wow, something triggerd it! What wonderful evidence with no gaps at all! I'm totally convinced.
I can see why it requires more intelligence to believe in.

(more sarcasm)



digger1
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12 Feb 2009, 9:09 pm

I'm not a bio-chemist.



slowmutant
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12 Feb 2009, 9:20 pm

Quote:
something triggered amino acids to combine and multiply


What do you think it was that triggered the amino acids to combine and multiply? Can you admit that you have no idea?



ClosetAspy
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12 Feb 2009, 9:32 pm

One thing that you might want to keep in mind, is that there are some forms of "Christianity" that may not be healthy to those of us on the spectrum. What I mean is that there are churches and congregations that stress withdrawal from what they call "the world", and this can vary from group to group. I have seen people become so wrapped up in their religion (with the encouragement of their church) that they lose almost all interest in anything outside the church. They no longer participate in anything except church activities, they shut their minds down, lose their curiosity and creativity, and what may be even worse, insist that those around them do likewise. For those of us on the spectrum, who may already have a tendency to withdraw from social interaction, this could prove a disaster. Unfortunately, in my experience, it is precisely those individuals and those churches who are the most aggressive in recruiting, and it is not always easy to know just how to determine what is a good situation. I would say that if you are struggling to integrate yourself into society, don't just blindly follow a group's social do's and don'ts, but evaluate them in terms of what you want and what is best for you (not what others say is best for you). Ask yourself, if confronted with a restriction, is this going to help or hinder me?

With that in mind, I would say the older established mainline denominations are probably your best bet, as they do not seem to put very many restrictions upon their members.



digger1
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12 Feb 2009, 9:42 pm

slowmutant wrote:
Quote:
something triggered amino acids to combine and multiply


What do you think it was that triggered the amino acids to combine and multiply? Can you admit that you have no idea?


I have faith



slowmutant
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12 Feb 2009, 9:43 pm

On church-shopping:

Go with your gut. First impressions usually turn out to be correct.