Thanks

Post Reply New Topic

Natesmom, I know my post sounded psychotic and a little immature, but I'm in a similar boat as you. My husband doesn't do much around the house and he's very selfish. For the first 3 years we were together, he bought himself something for my birthday and nothing, not even a card, for me. I'm not talking something little. I'm talking $300 gifts for himself. You just don't notice this kind of stuff when you are dating someone, ya know! Anyway, we have a 1 year old, a 2 year old, and one on the way. If I left him because he's useless, then I would still be in the same boat doing all the work by myself. So this is what I do to keep him in check (stuff mentioned in previous post). You can sit here and psychoanalyze him all you want, justify his behaviors, understand where he's coming from, or you get into his face and tell him what to do like his parents should have. You just have to tear him down and rebuild him the way you want him. To be honest, no man comes perfect. They all come with flaws. Some flaws you could live with easily until that moment you brought children in this world, and now they are no longer acceptable. Nothing wrong with that. His fear of lonliness can be used in your favor. My husband puts up with me because as bad as I am, his parents are worse, and he'd end up back at his parents if I left him. His parents hate that I tell him what to do (because that's their job). But they raised him to choose not to step up to the man plate, so that's what happens. If he wants to act like a teenager, then I will treat him as one. He's still far from perfect, but he's improved a lot since I stopped playing understanding psychologist and started playing the parental role (equally nurturing and critical). I will warn you though, once you see your man as a child, it's hard to have an intimate life with him, and it does get worse when you have to treat him like a child. I'd much rather tuck him in and read him a bedtime story than make out at this point. But obviously it doesn't take much as I am pregnant again, and it's a sacrifice I make for the better of the family. This house functions better now than ever. Maybe someday, he'll start making wiser decisions on his own and man up, and then things will be even better.

Ah, okay. That didn't even occur to me.

Sorry, I deal with open source software quite a bit, and the notion that it threatens any sorts of tech jobs is just plain ridiculous. It does threaten some of the bigger software vendors into a new business model, but it's for the betterment of software as a whole. Where one vendor may lay off people a professional open source software support company will hire.

Based on your description your husband sounds a lot like me. If he's a narcissist then perhaps I'm a narcissist. I also have trouble making myself do chores and absolutely need my uninterrupted free time to be happy. The folding clothes thing also makes sense. I'd rather not spend any time folding clothes and would find it difficult not to do the bare minimum when folding someone else's clothes. I also have trouble doing other people's dishes if it means I have to touch other people's food / dirty plates.

Thanks to everyone who has attempted to understand. I seriously appreciate it. This is only a forum so sometimes what we write doesn't

When you are too close to the situation, you often times lack insight. that is the reason why doctors can't treat their own children.

Yes, I am ADHD - to answer another person question.

I have been able to evaluate everything with a clearer mind - stepping back. I do think it has more to do with his hypomania state and a little with AS. IT is just magnified with AS.

His mom just hinted to me that her husband (my husband's father) has AS - she has been hinting to me for a while now. I didn't even bring it up. By her actions, she is showing me what has made their relationship work. He doesn't really have the Bipolar traits, though. It will be a bit difficult because she is much better and maintaining a structured household than me. I will take some of your suggestions.

I can only focus on my side of the relationship which includes conversing in a more direct manner. I will just attempt to do everything I can to make the household as organized as possible. It will be extremely difficult in a lot of ways to attempt to do everything but I will just look at everything in a good way. There are some positives in the relationship. He is now willing to seek help.

It has nothing to do with my career field. When talking about everyday living and trying to make it work - that is so different. I will do my best. That is all I can do. You all are so wonderful here so I appreciate your help. Again, I am so sorry to come across the way that is not really me. I was stressed out.

Honestly, I feel horrible at my lack of ability to do be organized. I want so badly to be able to do everything but it's so very hard. My family desperately needs extreme organization and predictability. I will set up a daily schedule if that helps. If my husband doesn't want it, I will just create one for my self and my children to assist me in doing all I can.

Everyone has strengths and weaknesses - I will focus on my weaknesses - just to get better in what I need to.

Last edited by natesmom on 09 Jul 2009, 1:53 pm, edited 2 times in total.

Thank you so much for understanding rants.

I am so sorry everyone for coming across poorly. Things have been so difficult lately and I didn't state things in a clear manner.

OK, natesmom... this is your pixel dot therpist talking... breathe, baby, breathe. Nice, slow, deep relaxing breaths. In...... out....... do a body scan, head to toe, imaging warm scented water gently washing away all guilt, regret, inadequacy, tension. Breathing in the goodness of life, love, beauty. Breathing out fear, poverty, resentment. In.... out.... In..... out.....

Maybe part of your schedule should include some you-recharge time... hot tub, spa, walking, visiting friends, a movie.... something for you. [reminder]

Remember, we have to have a good relationship with ourself before we can have a good relationship with others.
Blessings,
DB

Oh my. Good grief. I think this thread gave me the vapors. DB on the spot with a little meditative breathing to calm it down a notch, I'm not personally invested in any of this and I needed the reminder to breathe, baby, breathe.

So, wow, not wanting to be alone and wanting somebody to take care of you is now grounds for a narcissistic personality diagnosis. Companionship and somebody to share the burdens of life with are probably the driving factor behind most relationships. How intimate the companionship is and just what types of burdens are being shared will define what type of relationship it is. Natesmom herself expresses throughout the thread dissatisfaction with the carrying out responsibilities, AKA not taking care of her needs, and a frustration with inadequate openness of communication AKA she feels alone inside her marriage.

It really should be as simple as you are in a relationship that is not satisfying you but you are not prepared to terminate. You should seek counseling. It need not be joint, getting a well trained objective party to talk things through with who can help you see where you might be misunderstanding things or being dishonest with yourself can help you decide whether you feel you can take steps to reach a point where you are satisfied with the relationship, or whether you feel joint counseling is necessary and you can convince him to participate in it, or whether it is time to dissolve the partnership.

Natesmom: You are somebody familiar with ASDs, I'm assuming you are familiar with executive dysfunction? It has all kinds of impacts that internally are like having dementia and externally appear like being an inconsiderate jerk.

Tantybi: An inconsiderate inadequate spouse by your judgment is not grounds to become a bully and enter into an abusive relationship in order to manipulate another human being into doing your bidding. Nothing ever is. It is grounds to seek counseling or to terminate the relationship. It is not a parent's job to tell their children what to do, it is a parent's job to provide love and support to foster the growth of a new member of the herd. They do this by setting an example for their children to follow and you are setting the example to teach your children to be abusive bullying parasites on other human beings. I suggest you stop and consider if that is really your intention.

No, an inconsiderate inadequate spouse is not grounds to become a "bully" as you put it. However, an irresponsible father is grounds for what I've been doing, which isn't bullying. I think you kinda misunderstand my approach. If what I do is a bullying type behavior, then all parents in the world are bullies for nagging and making their kids clean their rooms, do their homework, wear warm clothes in the winter, eat their vegetables, say no to drugs, etc. Me personally, with my children, because of their age, I approach them from my nurturing parent more often than not. With my husband, because of his age, I tend to approach him from my critical parent. I tried all the nurturing let's understand where's he's coming from and communicate bull, and it doesn't work on him because he's already a grown man (too bad he just doesn't always act like it) and his parents always approached him from their critical (trying to get me to "put my foot down" more so with my kids, but not theirs...a little bias aren't they?). It really goes against every grain in my body to be this tough love do this do that, but I do it only because of the children. When the house looks like King Kong came in and vomited everywhere, yeah, I'm a little concerned about someone coming over like the landlord, a Birth to 3 person, or someone like that who will, and are required by law, to call someone like child protection services if they saw my house in that state. I don't have much room for failures here, and I can't do it all by myself. Lord knows I've tried, but I can't. My relationship with my husband is secondary to our responsibilities as parents. We brought the children in this world, so we are therefore accountable to take care of them.

Let's look at a different example. My parents. My father was a great dad. He helped my mom around the house and more than supported his family financially. His problem was that he was a work-a-holic and didn't spend much time with his family, especially quality time. My mother nagged and guilted him into it. It took her a couple of years, but he finally got her point. Now that I'm 30 and my dad is dead, if she didn't do that for me, I wouldn't be putting my dad on the pedestal I do only because I wouldn't know who he was. Instead, my mother's hard work afforded me quality memories with my father as far back as I can remember.

As for setting the example for my girls, I'm teaching them that a woman's role isn't solely housework and raising kids and that those duties are equally a man's duties and a woman's, and I'm teaching them to not take any bull from their men. Now, if I did allow their father to play video games all day long while I waited on him hand and foot, he'd be setting the example to be a parasite.

It's funny how once upon a time, in public, a man was accountable for his woman's actions, but still to this day, in the home, it is the woman who is accountable for her man's. Women's lib didn't work right there did it? Anyway, so if I'm held accountable for his actions, then it is my job to make certain he is doing his.

That is a quote from the post of yours I was responding to. You have just described bullying. You have just laid out a plan to take abusive control over another individual. Yes, there IS a whole lot of abuse in our world, yes some of that abuse is indeed in the form of parents nagging and making their kids do things. If the method by which they make them do things is via the exertion of authority and control over another beings will, that is coercion and by definition bullying. Siddartha Guatama Buddha and Lao Tzu opined of these abuses as did Zoroaster, Muhammad, Moses, Jesus the list goes on and on. Let us understand where we are coming from and communicate is the only option available, you either communicate using reason and by the power of your voice and example of action sway them to your course, or you seperate yourself from participation in activity with an individual. I undertake to observe the precept to abstain from taking that which is not freely given.

If he is causing the house to be in a state unsuitable for habitation by your children, it is your responsibility to communicate that fact to him, and the fact that if he does not immediately modify his behavior to be in line with what is required for the healthy fostering of his and your children, you are left with no other option but to seek separation to remove his negative influence from impacting your children. I do not doubt that you are teaching your girls those things you say, but you are also teaching them a dysfunctional model of human interaction as regards the utilization of coercion to manipulate the actions of another human.

Love is the acceptance of another beings flaws. If his flaws have become to malignant to continue being in your children's home, then he must be excised like a cancer, not tamed like a dog. You are accountable for your actions and he is accountable for his, his negative actions that he needs to be held accountable for do not offset your own negative actions.


You straight out made a declarative statement that you are using your husband's fear to control his actions. This. Is. Abuse.

Well said Cassus.

Yes, I have to say that I agree with Crassus on this one.

One of the reasons that I left my husband was that I didn't want my son to grow up thinking that the, frankly dysfunctional, relationship which my husband and I had was the norm. There were constant arguments between us about all manner of household and domestic tasks. Neither of us were perfect and there were faults on both sides. However, we had differing expectations and were unable to communicate effectively with each other.

My husband sometimes complained that I spoke to him as if he were a child, and I felt abused and bullied by him. By the time I decided I had no option but to leave I was in physical pain as a result of living constantly with stress and being afraid of his anger. Every so often he would threaten to leave, and normally I would be the one who would have to try and change to keep us together. The last time he threatened divorce I simply agreed with him that he was right.

I have found that I am much happier on my own, and I really don't think I want to be in a relationship ever again.

My husband, on the other hand, doesn't like being on his own at all. He would go to work when he was ill rather than be on his own in the house. After we agreed to separate, and before I had actually left, he joined an internet dating site. He met the woman he went out with for 18 months on the last night I spent under the same roof as him.

There is no guarantee that a fear of loneliness will keep a man with you, and if that is the only reason, then I don't think it is a relationship worth having.

A good relationship, to my mind, is one based on mutual understanding and the ability to communicate effectively and on the same level. My husband and I couldn't do that, and I certainly am much happier having given up the futile struggle to make it happen.

Our son spends time with both us every week, and during holidays we have family days out. The time we spend now together as a family is good time. There is less pressure and stress, and we all enjoy ourselves. I think it's better for my son to be with us happy apart and occasionally happy together, than to be with us the way we were.

I have to agree with you Crassus you are absolutely correct and after being bullied for about 17 years that is te absolute definition of bullying and you are correct with your advice and to tai there is only so much a person can take

I still don't see it as abuse. The only threat I make is the threat to leave, which is one of your options that you claim is better than what I am supposedly doing. That's how you use that fear of being alone to your favor. He doesn't want me to leave him, so I make that threat (as it is a very possible outcome if there is no change) as a motivational factor to get him to change. I also remind him of how CPS would feel in different scenarios using the possible outcome of losing his children as a threat too. If reality is abuse, then by all means substitute it with your own. But I can't let my children suffer over your principle. If you had read my earlier posts, I do make mention of methods such as Socratic Questioning, which doesn't always work. But no matter what method I use, my intent remains the same. Again, I have no room for failure, so therefore I use methods that work. The military is the only third party to be successful at turning boys into men when the parents failed to do so. Many of my techniques are derivatives of techniques used by the military and many parents who work out of their critical parent for that matter. Abuse would be if I left my house a disaster over a principle. Abuse would be if nobody changed a dirty diaper over a principle, or gave the children a bath, or spent all the money on stupid frivolous things to where we couldn't afford diapers or formula. Some of you men really have just got to quit making excuses for yourselves and grow up. Then us women wouldn't be in this position to turn you into men.

BTW, my husband and I don't argue. I'm sorry if all y'all aint used to seeing a woman man up to the situation, but don't confuse it for something it isn't. I'm just taking control of the situation rather than allowing the situation to control me. At all times, the job is open for my husband if he wants it.

No, bullying is a bunch of people being mean to you for no reason. Trying to motivate someone into taking responsibility for his actions is not bullying. Tell me who the real victim is here?

The man who is forced into laboring a job for 8 hours a day to come home to dinner, a clean house, and some beer so he can sit and play video games before he gets his nice 8-10 hours of consecutive sleep.

OR

The woman who wakes up with the children before dawn some mornings, cleans up the house, prepares 3 meals from scratch, balances the check book, handles all the bills and grocery shopping, mows the lawn, handles all the doctor appointments for the kids, cooks that stinking dinner and remember to buy the stupid beer off less money than she thought she'd have because we all just bought that video game, and then finally couldn't wait for everyone to fall asleep so she can handle somethings around the house she couldn't do with the kids awake like clean the bathroom so she can finally fall asleep waking up every hour or so for a crying kid. Let's add when the babies are newborns, they are to be fed every 2 hours (even when the men are sleeping), and usually the woman stays up with the baby while cleaning the house, cooking the meals, caring for the other kids, and bleeding beyond what one would think someone could live through as she did just squeeze a baby out of there.

No, in my situation, the victim is only standing up to the bully.

Your husband sounds like an as*hole. Not helping out around the house or help taking care of the kids. At least my dad did all that. He took care of us when my mom be sick or be at work. He took me to my appointments when my mom couldn't. My mom did most of the work but my dad also did it too when he be off from work. I know my own husband will help out when we have our first kid. After being in my first relationship with an lazy ass, I know how it feels to be with someone who doesn't help out. He hardly did some helpful things like giving my dog her medicine and feeding her when I be at work.

Yeah, but now he does help out. A lot of it was pushing passed the gender roles that was drilled into him by his family. In Puerto Rico, it's still common to see women at home handling all the housework by herself. I still compete with his family because they tell him that I'm not doing my job well enough if I need his help, and he needs to put his foot down with me. I tried the reasoning and the sweet conversations about it, and they usually ended in argument and wasting a lot of valuable time at that. The fact of the matter is I can't play that gender role. I want to finish my degree and have a career, and I don't want my life to be just dishes and laundry. And I want to smoke the cigar with the men after the meal instead of being cooped up inside cleaning up after them while chasing all the kids around. Now I can have that because my little Brawny Man Basic Training is working. It's very possible your father helped out around the house because your mother made him. It's possible he decided to do that on his own free will. Either way, you had a happy childhood because he did help out around the house.