Have you ever been bullied on WP?

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I don't think it's terrible. I probably am overreaction or taking you too literally.

I get confused about what to let go of and what is bullying. The best examples were when I was a child. For instance, I still feel maybe it was an accident when a group of girls who had not previouy been friendly said they wanted to be friends and took me away from everyone and then I woke up unconscious not knowing what happened and they were never friendly to me again.

But logic tells me they didn't likely just get scared when I somehow lost consciousness and run off. Logic says, they lured me away and likely planned it ahead of time. It's just so hard to grasp this stuff, and I don't believe I'm unintelligent. But I can be very clueless. Not about everything, just sometimes.

Stuff that happens now is usually more grey, but even now, sometimes someone will tell me that someone else' behavior is bullying when I thought they were just temporarily upset. And there are times I feel I'm being bullied that probably others wouldn't agree are bullying. Not being able to reliably see what is going on clearly and understand means I have to try to be on guard, sometimes I over read sometimes under. It isn't fluid and intuitive, I do my best though.

But I don't think you're terrible. Just trying to sort out what to me is very confusing....that sometimes, for no other reason than because they can, people group together to torment others....and feel justified in it.

I get this isn't what you were talking about though. I like you....and you know, I think your out-there approach to saying what you think gives me courage to try the same. So I'm grateful to you for that

That's something pretty drastic. You woke up unconscious? Seems like these people drugged you.

Wouldn't exactly call it bullying, but, a certain user here is saying some less than pleasant things to me.

The thing to do in situations like that is to ask yourself "What are the chances that this person could actually carry their threat out?"
If, as in most cases, the answer is "Not a chance," the thing to do is to laugh at them for being an internet tough guy, then move on with your life.

I am both surprised (and a bit appalled) that the individual wasn’t permanently banned from the site. As this (threatening physical harm) is clearly a violation of site rules.

It makes me wonder what line someone has to cross, in order to get banned.

Members who engage in illegal acts (libel, defamation, threats) at WrongPlanet.net should be banned immediately without appeal, in my opinion.

As it is now, discussing banned members or why they were banned is violative of the terms of service.

What is legal in one country may be illegal in another. So which country's legal system should we use? Also, should we take into account the fact that someone from another country may be unaware of the laws of the country whose standards are enforced here?

And, I don't think libel or defamation are illegal all the time. It depends. You may be able to bring civil action about them but not always criminal. I seriously doubt that anybody could commit either of those on a scale here on WP that would be considered illegal, especially considering how many times the tabloids have been sued for the exact same things but rarely had criminal charges pressed. Just because something sounds like it should be illegal, doesn't mean it is.

Threats on the other hand may or may not be illegal. I have nothing against you so these are just examples. Lets say we were arguing about politics and I said I was going to kick your ass because of your opinion. Now, I don't know who you are or where you live and I have enough trouble trying to get a ride to the grocery store, let alone fly to wherever you live and do that, so that would just be ridiculous. In fact, even if I did know where you lived and you were on my FB so I had your info, that would still not be considered illegal really. If I said I was going to do something over the top involving firearms or explosives, or maybe if I threatened to do some kind of computer hacking thing to you then those things could get the attention of law enforcement if you brought it to them and they might be investigated, but overall, those things aren't illegal.

If I tried to sell you drugs or something like that, then that would be considered illegal, and depending on the drugs involved and my country of origin, that would probably be considered illegal everywhere so that would be an auto ban for illegal activity. So would conspiracy, such as us having a thread where we discuss banning together to overthrow something or someone or attack something or someone, but those things you stated really vary on whether or not they are illegal.

It's really ok to ban someone for not wanting to put up with their s**t any longer. Forums are usually privately owned and operated and aren't usually subject to things such as discrimination laws nor do they even really have to be fair.

As for banning people, why don't we just use common sense? There are never going to be a set of rules that will cover every example and all circumstances. Any set of rules can be overly enforced or unfairly enforced even if you are sticking to the rules 100%. Every situation is different and you have to use common sense and evaluate the circumstances. Just because we are aspies doesn't mean we can't do that. It may be harder for many of us to pick up on nuances of the situation, but that doesn't mean we can't talk to those involved and find out exactly what is going on before making a decision.

Rules aren't the be all and end all of everything. They are simply guidelines to use to try and keep things running smoothly.

Thats the thing about bullying. It's common sense usually to tell when it's bullying. What might be bullying in one situation isn't in another. Society seems to be very much against using common sense nowdays, and that is what I'm ticked off about. It's everywhere. People want to stick to rules and follow this or that and not look at situations and apply what should be applied, when it needs to be.

That is my beef with things. Also, the fact that so many people now just want to call anything rude or unpleasant as bullying or harassment. Back in the day there used to be something called "as*holes". They were rude, they were mean sometimes, not many people liked them. But they were just as*holes, not criminals for their words nor were they ostracized and metaphorically strung up by being labeled as a bully nor did they get slapped with some harassment suit. Many do deserve that, but many who get that don't deserve it and many who do get off scot free because the rules and definitions don't apply to the situation. So common sense is something that has been systematically killed off by society at a time when we need it more than ever.

I would be surprised if a nation had no laws against libel, defamation and threats. So, most citizens of most nations would have a general understanding of the applicable laws. Besides, I suspect strongly that most WrongPlanet.net users are U.S. residents and have an understanding of its laws.


In the world of international sales and trade (specifically software and Internet web sites), the laws of the nation from which the product or service originates (or is chosen by its producer) govern any controversies.

Since these two facts exist already within the Internet in vastly similar ways and applications, it would actually be unusual and a titch disruptive to introduce other nontraditional conditions.

Your other examples, as helpful as they are to your argument (and I agree with them), disappear within the provisions of the WrongPlanet.net terms of use ( http://www.wrongplanet.net/terms-of-use ). While Alex has agreed to be governed by the laws of "California, Virginia, Maryland, Washington, Minnesota, the District of Columbia, and any other states, countries, or localities in which, or through which, data from your machine travels or originates" (which is his choice), most Internet content and web-site providers limit their liability to the nation and state (or province) where their service is based to avoid being expected to defend or pursue a controversy under unfamiliar laws and distant courts. Moreover, Alex appears to provide WrongPlanet.net as an "as is" service meaning that users are taking a legal risk on the quality of the service. Users are free to inspect the service before using it; but if any hidden defects (such as certain terms) are discovered after use, the user has no recourse against the provider.

Finally, what is at stake when a WrongPlanet.net user is banned from continuing to use it is merely a free service offered and provided to all comers under the same conditions. Unless a banned user pursues a legal complaint which challenges the ban because the ban violated other laws provided by the jurisdictions named in the WrongPlanet.net Terms of Use (there would be no violations if done under the terms) or that the user has personally been harmed under a ban (almost no chance of that), there is little else that a banned user may do.

So, when I suggested that, because users are sometimes banned for cause, and sometimes not banned despite cause, it might make sense to use the potential "illegality" of an act to determine ban-ability. Of course, I amn't Alex. It is entirely up to him to decide. My suggestion was merely that.

I would say there is fairly explicit language, by and large, pertaining to "ban-able" offenses.

If one personally insults another user, that's grounds for banning, for example.

This is a private website, run by a private person. In essence, just like within a "real life" business establishment, the proprietors could ban somebody "at will."

As for "libelous"/"slanderous" language, I would say that the person doing the libel would be responsible, rather than the website.

Very true. But, in some egregious cases where a web site (which might be privately produced, but has the effect of broadcasting to the public) allows and continues to allow, while not endorsing, illegal acts (such as defamation and libel being published by users at the site), the site and its producers can expose itself to financial, civil and even criminal liability.

But, all this is a bunch of angels, pinheads and such. None of this is the case today. Alex does a fine job. We were discussing hypothetical possibilities, and nothing more.

Yep....Alex takes an excellent approach: Let the fools be fools.

I agree with that. To ignore a fool is to make a fool disappear.

This is encapsulated in this most concise request: "Don't feed the troll."

It's just an internet forum. It's a distraction. It's something to do. It's like playing a video game or watching tv or reading a book. In other words, while it's great to have and it's part of routines for many people and has been for myself before and probably will be again when my routine has more internet in it, it's not that important. Lets say I decided to start a thread saying "AspieUtah is a douchebag and lies about the gnomes he has in his yard". I don't know you or anything and that was crazy sounding and bs and you seem perfectly nice but say I did that. Then say I went into a long rant about how you called me one night from the dog track and told me you had all these gnomes in your yard that people put there and you needed some cash to have removed so I sent it to you and then I found out from your barber's cousin's neighbor's mailman's wife that you lied about the gnomes and actually went and got a nose job with it. Add more to this made up insane story and imagine me posting all sorts of assumptions about your character and such on here as fact. Lets say I called you something, or lots of things, and then said I was going to kick your ass next time I saw you. Besides the fact that it would obviously be all made up and most people here know me well enough to contact me and be concerned for my mental health rather than just ban me, but that's defamation and threats and all that. So what? It's just some thread on a forum and wouldn't effect your real life if I did do that.

Lets take another example. Lets say I got mad at some of the people I know here off the forum as well who I talk to and posted a lot of their personal stuff they told me and said mean things about them that weren't true. What isn't true would be libel but probably still not something anyone could sue about because while it would be a dick move on my part (I'd never really do that) and they would be mad at me and their feelings would be hurt, it wouldn't actually effect their lives. So, it wouldn't be exactly illegal. Good luck to somebody who calls the cops on somebody who just posts mean things about them online, unless it's in some place like FB where there is a probability that it will effect their lives.

See what I'm saying? The only impact something here has on a person is the impact they give it. Yes, your feelings can be hurt or you can be offended whether or not you intend to let someone do that to you, but with one click it's gone and over with. You go to a different site and it's not there. It's not happening there. It isn't in your house or with your family or friends or anything like that. Nobody knows except the few people who saw it here. It doesn't impact you like it would if it were on some place that everybody you knew saw it, and you didn't have anywhere else to go and couldn't get away etc. You can skip over a posting and just go on with your reading without it ruining your quality of enjoyment of the time spent here. Sure you get a little ticked but it's nothing like something happening with people you know, or face to face where you can't avoid it.

Celebs have sued tabloids for revealing personal info or for lying about them and while they have gotten money I don't think any of them has been able to have criminal action taken against them. It all depends on how something is done, as to whether or not it's legal. If I posted here "AspieUtah is a dope cook" that would be very different than sending emails or regular letters to people you know in real life trying to convince them you cook dope. The first wouldn't be illegal but the second would be, depending. It would at least be harassment.

So, I don't think it's that big a deal about what somebody posts on a forum, unless it's got potential to actually impact someone's life and not just detract from the enjoyment they may have from reading a website. Do you see what I mean? Don't get me wrong, when I'm in the routine of doing stuff on the internet I get VERY put out if something is messed up about it, but it's still ONLY that part of my life that is messed up. It would be like losing my favorite cable channel or something. Do you see what I'm saying?

I'm not talking about the kind of online bullying that causes kids to kill themselves or hurts their lives. That usually involves people they know and their school and such. That is very different than basically a stranger saying something about you because they dislike your political or religious or whatever opinions.

Do you see what I'm trying to get across here? I may not be doing a good job of getting it across, so if you don't get the point I'm trying to make, i'll try again. I'm tired as can be tonight and when I get really tired it's hard to string my thoughts together lol.

Could this thread be moved to the Haven forum?

I hope it doesn't move. As the OP, I purposely posted here, for adults. That does not mean I don't welcome anyone's comments.

I would like to say something in regards to bullying. When a person verbalizes that they feel they have been bullied, I do not think it is other people's place to say that they have not been bullied. How a person feels is subjective to that person and their feelings may very well have been hurt. One thing said to one person that is hurtful may not even phase another person. If someone tells me that I have said or did something that hurt their feelings, I apologize immediately whether I think I said or did anything wrong because it did hurt the other person for whatever reason. No other explanation is needed. If a person hurts my feelings and I say to them that I have been hurt by what they have said or did, then I do expect an apology whether they think it is warranted or not. No apology means that they really don't care about me or my feelings as a person. An apology is for hurting another person's feelings - not for whether the first person believes that what they said or did was wrong.

Yes.