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I guess if you were more or less equally attracted towards both of them, that could be a problem. But as long as the second lady is also the second choice, there should be no awkwardly strong feelings to have to deflect.


I think that must be a NT thing. In my world, the moment anybody indicates they find me uninteresting, I start to lose interest in them. Even women who played "hard to get" with me, mostly it just put me off.

I'm exactly the same, as soon as I find out there is another guy in her life and she can't pick between us, interest and motivation to persue drops to 0. I see it as an immediate defeat and discontinue
the persuit. Everytime I've hung around I've been right. Or like I said before, I can't be friends. If I'm attracted strongly and she say's nope she isn't, then I run for the hills to lick my wounds. I don't know
where people get the bs that if you hang around eventually they will see the light, I've heard those stories and I just think they are a crock. Anyways once the wounds are stiched up (though they never heal)
Then begins the crawl out of the abyss to rinse and repeat, fking bs I hate it !

Its wearing me out, I'm getting to the stage where I'm convincing myself that this is my fate. My reasoning is, who in their right mind would want to get to learn about aspergers and how to deal with it and
understand it and make adjustments for it, when there are 20 NT guys out there waiting to take my place?

Mostly it's like that with me, though I've mellowed a little with experience. As long as there's no heavy petting going on, then continuing the "pursuit" (not a good word to describe what I do, but I don't know what else to call it) isn't out of the question, but my motivation would still take a knock and I'd be unlikely to compete directly.....I'd tend to ignore the other guy's existence and just do my best on my own terms.

I did try to compete more directly a few times, but one time I got K.O'd, another time I "won" but I just ended up with a woman who couldn't make up her mind about who she wanted.

Another time I met a lady through music, we were doing quite well, but then she started doing music with another guy after suddenly disappearing out of my life for a few days......it was all supposedly platonic so I couldn't really object - I was nowhere near being ready to make a claim on her....it was a tricky situation because she'd said she didn't want a relationship but just a close friend, though I was pretty sure that wasn't true......I wanted to challenge her about that but didn't want to spoil anything (it always seems to spoil a budding romance if anybody mentions what's really going on ), so I felt furious but had to comply. I think the competition galvanised me into playing better music with her. I won the "contest" and she dropped the other guy (whose voice wasn't in my league ), but it was no different after we'd become partners.....she got another male musician, without a word about the obvious problems that would bring me. I never challenged that either - didn't want to seem possessive - but the relationship went downhill pretty quickly after that, and I ended it because she was just playing on my insecurities and I didn't want to be scared for the rest of my life.

Another one panicked me into comsummating our association much earlier than I felt was wise, because she'd had a crush on a guy just before she noticed me, and he first said he didn't want her but then started contacting her. So I figured I'd best get her into bed before he did. Bad mistake - I got my relationship and he never went near her again, but she kept playing weird jealousy games, and eventually I dumped her for it. She was so subtle that I spent years wondering if I was pathologically jealous.

So in my experience, the ones who play guys against each other before it's a relationship will probably continue to do so afterwards.

Yes it's depressing. But some Aspie guys do end up with good partners who don't want to swap them for the nearest NT. We must have got something going for us if that happens at all.

What are your thoughts on women who appear as though they are always "busy" or a lot of the time. Make and then cancel plans constantly ?
I've chatted with this girl on facebook and on the phone who is a friend of a friend, and 3 times we have made plans 3 times I've called her up a day or 2 before to confirm we are still on
and "something" has come up. I tend to believe these scenario's are a typical case of "she's not into you" or she is interested in somebody else and I'm no longer a motivational thought for her.

Non the less, that stupid hope I spoke about in a previous msg it drives me on (yes its not dead yet) I wanna give her a second chance more like a forth, because I want to believe in the possibility
that maybe she is just busy and if I were to drop her based on the "3 strikes your out" theory it will plauge my mind about "what if" in the future, because like I said once I drop I run, I don't hang around
and try play the "friends" facade. So what do you think I should do? hang round or drop and run ?
Damn I just realised how excessively I use "quotation" marks haha.





I think you would literally have a better chance at finding a needle in a hay stack then one of those.

My first reaction always used to be to take them at their word, so I'd just feel that I wasn't wanted, and I'd give up. But I heard about the way some of them "play hard to get," and that little bit of doubt in taking them so literally caused me to take heart occasionally, and although I'd still have a lot of trouble if I were going through that kind of choice now, I think that the doubt helped me out a lot, and I was able to show that I was capable of chasing them just a little bit. Yet I still hate it....I angrily interrogated the musician lady about her early behaviour, and felt even worse when it became clear that she either didn't know what I was talking about, or just didn't want to admit what she'd been up to. Of course my hostile attitude didn't exactly put her at ease and make her feel like owning her innermost feelings. But really, it always felt like finding a friend to play chess with, and then watching them rip up the board, and then behave as if they have no idea it might make me unhappy.

Ironically, these days while I'm not looking for a relationship, if a female friend seems to go that way, I tend to suspect that it could be a sign of sexual interest. It feels a lot safer for me to chase them under those circumstances, probably because I don't want or need to become their partner......I'm easier about risking being pushed away by somebody I feel I can perfectly well live without. Though obviously there's not much for me to win, if I don't want a relationship. I sometimes feel tempted to do a bit of chasing just to show myself that I'm not really afraid of it, to get used to it in case I should need to do it for real one day, and to face up to those old fears that cost me so much love.

Well, quotes aren't offensive, and your message wouldn't be as clear without them.

Your female friend's antics could mean anything. Sometimes other stuff comes up that they prefer to do and they don't have much of an ethic about keeping promises. Others never really wanted to make the plan in the first place but hadn't dared to say no, so they'll give you a lame excuse and hope you don't probe too deeply. Others want you to show them that you're really interested or that you're strong and confident enough to risk the chase.

If it were me, I guess I'd be looking through the emails and conversations for signs......is there anything to show that she's getting anything out of it? Are you relating well? What do you find attractive about her, apart from her gender and the fact that she might be available? Have you told her what you like about her? Do you know what she likes? Have you been able to help her with that?

I think I'd also try chasing her a little, though it's much easier to say that from my ivory tower than it would be if were on the front line like you are. If you can make a small advance on her, and watch and listen to how she responds, you might be able to work out from that how she feels about you....if every advance you make just causes her to look uncomfortable, you're probably in the wrong shop. But even if she tells you to get lost, just retire with grace and tell her to let you know if she changes her mind. They do come back sometimes, so don't slam any doors if you can avoid it.


I think you would literally have a better chance at finding a needle in a hay stack then one of those.[/quote]
Yep....so pick up the fork and start sifting. Start with this current lady, meanwhile try to contact another one, so you've got something to do if she breaks when you test her.

And your "3-strikes-and-you're-out" isn't so bad, as long as you keep it open to review. I used something like that while I was doing agency dating some years ago. I'd give one x days to reply (wouldn't tell her that in case it came over as a threat), and I'd have the next one ready to explore, and ruthlessly fire off the next message at the said deadline.

As a fella who had many of the same problems for many years, and who got to the edge of giving up on more than one occasion, I've learned some lessons the hard way. My mate is very understanding of my Aspie tendencies, so I learned some of these lessons after-the-fact by asking what I did right. Now, this isn't intended to be a silver bullet that will get any girl you want. And any Aspie can shoot these down with armchair logic if they're feeling grumpy. But you would be surprised. (Girls, a lot of this works the other direction too, especially with Aspies.)

0. Be sure of your intentions. This is step zero for a reason. Don't start without this step. If you are approaching a girl because you are lonely and she is the nearest thing with breasts who might be persuaded to suffer your advances long enough for you to say 'hi'.... ABORT. You aren't ready. Even if you make 'progress', it's like an Eskimo winning a refrigerator. But if there is really something that makes you want to know more about this person, itemize these things in your head. Does she look studious and you like smart girls? Does she have red hair and that drives you crazy? This will come in handy 2 years down the road and she asks you 'so what made you come up and say hi to me?' No girl wants the answer to that question to be 'you had a pulse and low expectations.'

1. Widen the social net. This is the hardest one in the list, but a necessity. So get it out of the way first. You don't need to hop bars or go dancing to be social. Just do what you were gonna do anyway if you were doing it alone. You may need to go out and try new things in front of people on a regular basis. But before you panic, small gatherings of friends, a visit to an art center, the library, etc. count. Plus, that's a good way to find someone with similar interests, instead of just a pretty drunk.

2. Clean yourself up a bit. That doesn't mean put on designer clothes and a spiky haircut and prance about like a douche. It also doesn't mean schlubbing about in your ill-fitting jeans and t-shirt. In a perfect world, she would be able to see through all that to the sensitive soul beneath. But if she has to pick between two sensitive souls, and one is prettier than the other... she's going to pick the pretty one. A weird catch though... don't dress perfect. One way girls signal to other girls that a boy as 'taken' is by making sure they look well cared for. Dress in a way that shows you care about your appearance, but that you could use some 'input'.

3. Learn names. I suck at names myself. But if you want a girl to smile and greet you by name, she'll be hoping for the same from you. Make a point to remember her name. You would be surprised how big a deal it is for a guy to remember a girl's name; that alone spells out your interest!

4. Smile and laugh. None of us Aspies smile or laugh enough, especially in front of others, and I think most of us feel awkward when we DO. But a smile or laugh does more than communicate that we ourselves are happy; they signal to a conversation partner that (1) it is OK to approach you, (2) you are happy to see her, (3) that any anxiety she has will be met with understanding and an upbeat tone that will add to her day instead of crushing it, and (4) continued interaction with you promises a 'happy' future in turn. You might not feel like laughing or smiling if you're already nervous; but like any other linguistic symbol, if you want to communicate those 4 points to a girl, the smiling laugh is the signal that best invokes that meaning.

5. Have fall-back topics. There is a 90% chance the conversation will become stalled or a bit awkward in some regard and that the guy will be expected to save it. Sorry, that's the way it goes. So have a few safe topics prepared where you are in your element. (If you paid attention to #1, your resulting exposure to the outside world will supply you with some!) Do not pick items on which you are ignorant or easily derailed or that she will know nothing about. (This would be the second hard item.) If she starts talking about one of them, or it spurs a conversation she is comfortable with, let her talk; you succeeded. The ice is broken. Make steady eye contact if you can muster it. (Change your glance every 1-2 seconds so it isn't jarring.) SMILE. Nod. Laugh if she says something you would find humorous if your palms weren't sweating.

6. Have both a plan for dealing with success and failure. If you made a connection, and you think she's up for it, let her know you plan to do X this weekend, and ask if she'd like to come along. If she exhibits any signs of anxiety, or you have a supportive group of friends, tell her you're doing X with some friends. (This of course means you must already have plans to do something with friends, see #1.) Smile as you deliver the proposal so she knows it's OK to say no. If she says 'yes', phone numbers will need to be exchanged as a matter of course - never start off by asking for digits! Let her offer them! If she says 'no', or you didn't form a connection and want to consolidate your progress for next time, resort to your failure (escape) plan. Unless she gives you a 'big red flag' such as 'I have a boyfriend', consider a failure here as a lost battle, not a lost war. Your escape plan needs to include (you guessed it) a smile, and something along the lines of 'maybe another time?' Perhaps when she said she was busy that weekend, she really WAS busy that weekend. And maybe she'll track you down tomorrow when her plans change. The smile here lets her know that option is still available to her.

7. The hair excuse. "I'm washing my hair that night," or the equivalent, is a bogus rejection. Unless she has a long mane of luxurious hair that is always perfectly kept, and she might die if it were out of place, this is what girls tell boys when they don't have the guts to (or don't feel safe to) say 'no'. When in doubt, assume a "no" is an open-ended "no". But in a case like this, pretend it was open-ended and divert your efforts.

8. The double-standard. I remember this from Anna Karenina. You had the luxury of making up your mind about wanting to spend time with this girl before you talked to her. You may have had the luxury of DAYS or WEEKS to make up your mind! She's had, what, a few seconds to a few minutes to make up her mind? Always remember you're springing the whole affair on her quite suddenly. Be open-ended and smile to let her know that pressure need not be threatening. Not to reduce females to animal mentality (since if genders are changed, this logic simply applies to the surprised party), but imagine getting an animal to eat out of your hand. Allow an escape route, don't make fast motions, and signal with your body language that everything is cool. She may sprint back off into the woods, but she may be back. Who knows?

9. Get a fast motorcycle/car, spend a lot on clothes, find girls who are easily talked into making bad decisions, and treat her poorly so that she never has the self-esteem to go anywhere. OK, no, I don't suggest this. I'm just spelling this alternative out to make clear how bad an alternative it is. Stick with steps 0-8. Much better investment long-term.

I wrote this matter o' fact piece for a parent support group, so they can advice their teenage AS boys:

Rugby training is on Tuesdays and Thursdays hmm...

I like the disclosure part