Baby Boomers and how we/they are perceived in today's world

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Carbonhalo
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06 Oct 2024, 11:54 pm

At the gig last week I heard the phrase "Someone your age" from two different people.

And there goes yet another self termination trigger.



ASPartOfMe
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07 Oct 2024, 9:30 am

lostonearth35 wrote:
ASPartOfMe wrote:
lostonearth35 wrote:
Apparently we have a reputation for being cynical, apathetic slackers. But it looks like they way things are now, it's pretty well justified. :roll:

The stereotypes of Canadians down here are laid back, polite, and just plain nice.


No, actually I mean gen x people and not Canadians.

Sorry. :lol:

The term slacker was conflated with Generation X after the Richard Linklater film of the same name came out. In the early ‘90s the popularity of grunge fed into the stereotype. In the latter half of the 90s during the dot com boom the stereotype reversed. Now Generation X was creating a positive future by revolutionizing everything. The slacker stereotype came back in a different form with the popularity of the TV show Friends. Today Gen X is the generation nobody thinks about. It’s all about Gen Z, Boomers and Millennials.


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naturalplastic
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07 Oct 2024, 9:59 am

lostonearth35 wrote:
I was born in 1974. We had MuchMusic in Canada instead of MTV. And back then it actually had music.

Back then there was the cold war and plenty of movies, TV shows, video games and music that were anti-commie anti-soviet and plenty of terrifying stuff about the threat of nuclear war. I think in Canada many people didn't get why the USA and USSR had to be such enemies, though.

Apparently we have a reputation for being cynical, apathetic slackers. But it looks like they way things are now, it's pretty well justified. :roll:

There were no "video games" on any theme in "1974".



MaxE
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07 Oct 2024, 11:15 am

naturalplastic wrote:
lostonearth35 wrote:
I was born in 1974. We had MuchMusic in Canada instead of MTV. And back then it actually had music.

Back then there was the cold war and plenty of movies, TV shows, video games and music that were anti-commie anti-soviet and plenty of terrifying stuff about the threat of nuclear war. I think in Canada many people didn't get why the USA and USSR had to be such enemies, though.

Apparently we have a reputation for being cynical, apathetic slackers. But it looks like they way things are now, it's pretty well justified. :roll:

There were no "video games" on any theme in "1974".

There were s few arcade games.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_arcade_video_games


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bsickler
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09 Oct 2024, 12:43 am

Perspective of someone who is 33, but lives in an area where the median age is 60.

Boomers have vast institutional knowledge, but zero wisdom. None whatsoever.

When I was younger, I found this to be incredibly frustrating. I 100% could not depend on the advice of older people, which made life so much harder than it otherwise would’ve been.

I had no one to ask questions to, and I was forced to learn virtually everything the hard way, as older folks lack wisdom and tend to keep their knowledge proprietary.

Thankfully, Gen X seems to have gained some wisdom, and they’re significantly less likely to keep their knowledge proprietary, so hopefully this will not be an issue for future generations.



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18 Oct 2024, 1:06 pm

bsickler wrote:
Boomers have vast institutional knowledge, but zero wisdom.

What sort of thing do you mean by "wisdom," as distinct from "institutional knowledge"? Any specific examples of "wjsdom" that you think boomers lack but Gen Xers have?

By the way, I note that you say you live in "Cascadia," which is, culturally speaking, a highly unusual region on the North American continent. I suspect that this too -- not just age per se -- might make a big difference as to what kinds of "wisdom" people of a given age group may or may not tend to have, or be willing to share.


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18 Oct 2024, 4:47 pm

To MaxE:

Agreed that grouping people into "generations" that are 15 to 20 years in length is a vast oversimplifcation. Agreed, for example, that late baby-boomers came of age in a very different era than early baby-boomers did.

I also think there has been way too much a tendency to over-generalize about people based on age cohort. Even if the age cohorts are defined in a more fine-grained way than the popular 15-to-20-year "generations," there are many other factors besides age and a given decade's mass-culture fads that can affect a person's experiences growing up. For example, it can make a huge difference whether a person grew up in a city, a suburb, or a rural area. Also a person's racial/ethnic background, religious background (if any), economic class, and parents' level of education can make a huge difference.


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18 Oct 2024, 10:42 pm

To bsickler:

A P.S. to my post here:

I am under the impression that Cascadia (or at least parts of Oregon and Washington) has long been a magnet for hippies. So I wonder if many of the older folks you run into might be aging hippies, from well-to-do backgrounds, who live mainly off of trust funds and thus have had little need to acquire any practical "wisdom."

If so, they are not typical of boomers in other parts of North America, nor even typical of the minority of boomers who are aging hippies (or at least the ones who are from non-well-to-do backgrounds and live in places other than Cascadia).

Of course, more generally, retirees and people near the end of their career might not be able to give you good up-to-date advice on things like the specifics of how today's job market works. But this doesn't necessarily mean they lack other kinds of "wisdom."


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18 Oct 2024, 10:55 pm

Mona Pereth wrote:
bsickler wrote:
Boomers have vast institutional knowledge, but zero wisdom.

What sort of thing do you mean by "wisdom," as distinct from "institutional knowledge"? Any specific examples of "wjsdom" that you think boomers lack but Gen Xers have?

By the way, I note that you say you live in "Cascadia," which is, culturally speaking, a highly unusual region on the North American continent. I suspect that this too -- not just age per se -- might make a big difference as to what kinds of "wisdom" people of a given age group may or may not tend to have, or be willing to share.

I'm also wondering what this means. I was born in 1964 so I'm technically the last of the boomers, but I don't consider myself one since the typical boomer experience is being a young person in the late 60s, not being a small child in that period.



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18 Oct 2024, 11:19 pm

I remember a story my father told me: There was a man going down to the river with a large sack on his back; he was asked by this person he passed on the road what he had in the sack; he replied "it's my father; he is old and useless and his ideas are so out of date, I'm going to throw him in the river. The person he passed told him to be sure and save the bag for his own son. I find it amusing that the people who hate on boomers now are going to be hated by the younger generation that follows them and they don't yet realize it.



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18 Oct 2024, 11:26 pm

The specific area I live in has a pretty high average age (as I mentioned in my post) and I interact with baby boomers regularly, so yes I likely do have more experience and interaction with that age group than the average person does because of the specific area I live in.

I can say pretty confidently that these people are not, and never have been hippies. I can’t really divulge further without doxing myself but needless to say, this ain’t Seattle. Or Portland for that matter.

That being said, I’ve lived in several other places before, and my job in my 20s involved extensive travel throughout the country, and my experience with this age group hasn’t really changed much.

Baby boomers have a tendency to conflate institutional knowledge with wisdom. These are not the same thing -
wisdom involves a certain amount of perspective and the ability to make sound judgments about a subject, while institutional knowledge is simply knowing a lot about said subject.

Boomers are extremely well versed in almost everything. They are extremely knowledgeable. But I’ve found that virtually all baby boomers I have interacted with IRL so far lack perspective, and either practice or promote bad judgement, even about things that they know about.

I realize I’m painting a huge brush here, and my interactions with boomers online are generally much better / more fruitful, but I feel like (and my personal experience says that) the boomers I meet online are largely self-selecting and not representative as the whole IRL

As for keeping stuff proprietary, I figure it’s because of competition- boomers spent their entire lives competing with other boomers, which encourages keeping information private to maintain an advantage. Gen X is smaller and doesn’t have that problem which explains why I’ve never had issues getting useful info/tips from them at work.



Last edited by bsickler on 19 Oct 2024, 12:24 am, edited 1 time in total.

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18 Oct 2024, 11:34 pm

Aspinator wrote:
I remember a story my father told me: There was a man going down to the river with a large sack on his back; he was asked by this person he passed on the road what he had in the sack; he replied "it's my father; he is old and useless and his ideas are so out of date, I'm going to throw him in the river. The person he passed told him to be sure and save the bag for his own son. I find it amusing that the people who hate on boomers now are going to be hated by the younger generation that follows them and they don't yet realize it.


This passive aggressive platitude masquerading as wisdom is exactly what I’m talking about in my post.

The topic is literally called “ Baby Boomers And How We/They Are Perceived In Today's World”.

Well, here I am with my opinion and perceptions, but because I’m a younger person who is critical, I end up with this nonsense that I’ve been hearing for nearly 20 years now already.

If you don’t want an honest assessment from younger people, then why even bother asking?



Last edited by bsickler on 18 Oct 2024, 11:53 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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18 Oct 2024, 11:52 pm

Mona Pereth wrote:
To bsickler:

A P.S. to my post here:

I am under the impression that Cascadia (or at least parts of Oregon and Washington) has long been a magnet for hippies. So I wonder if many of the older folks you run into might be aging hippies, from well-to-do backgrounds, who live mainly off of trust funds and thus have had little need to acquire any practical "wisdom."

If so, they are not typical of boomers in other parts of North America, nor even typical of the minority of boomers who are aging hippies (or at least the ones who are from non-well-to-do backgrounds and live in places other than Cascadia).


This IS a problem and a very good point, but no, the area I live in is definitely not full of hippies.

There are lots of older folks who are doing well financially though, and who - by your definition - have little “need” for wisdom. But well… that’s the problem. Virtually every boomer I’ve met IRL meets that definition.

They’re not hippies or trust fund babies - at least where I live, they got cheap property then when they got older created zoning laws that didn’t exist before to keep younger people out.

This resulted in a massive spike in property valuations which they’ve been sucking on for ~20 years through HELOCS and refinancing. Very few boomers here have their house paid off but it’s fine as a significant chunk here have reverse mortgages and social security and a pension and a 401k.

When they pass, there will be nothing to pass down. Not that their kids earned it anyway am I right?

Long term this is going to end up resulting in huge numbers of properties where I live being in corporate / private equity hands but the boomers here don’t care. Not their problem.

You know that parable about planting a tree that you will never enjoy the shade of? Doesn’t apply to these people. At all.

Quote:
Of course, more generally, retirees and people near the end of their career might not be able to give you good up-to-date advice on things like the specifics of how today's job market works. But this doesn't necessarily mean they lack other kinds of "wisdom."


Yeah this is fair, but I’m talking about boomer co-workers who don’t need to work but do anyway; boomer co-workers that have been around for decades and refuse to pass down useful information about the job; boomer co-workers who are real big on hazing or bullying; things like that.



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19 Oct 2024, 12:36 am

bsickler wrote:
The specific area I live in has a pretty high average age (as I mentioned in my post) and I interact with baby boomers regularly, so yes I likely do have more experience and interaction with that age group than the average person does because of the specific area I live in.

I can say pretty confidently that these people are not, and never have been hippies. I can’t really divulge further without doxing myself but needless to say, this ain’t Seattle. Or Portland for that matter.

That being said, I’ve lived in several other places before, and my job in my 20s involved extensive travel throughout the country, and my experience with this age group hasn’t really changed much.

Baby boomers have a tendency to conflate institutional knowledge with wisdom. These are not the same thing -
wisdom involves a certain amount of perspective and the ability to make sound judgments about a subject, while institutional knowledge is simply knowing a lot about said subject.

Boomers are extremely well versed in damn near everything. They are extremely knowledgeable. But I’ve found that virtually all baby boomers I have interacted with IRL so far lack perspective, and either practice or promote bad judgement, even about things that they know about.

I realize I’m painting a huge brush here, and my interactions with boomers online are generally much better / more fruitful, but I feel like (and my personal experience says that) the boomers I meet online are largely self-selecting and not representative as the whole IRL

When you speak of the boomers you meet IRL, do you mean primarily on the job?

If so, then your experiences could perhaps be due to changing fashions in management style. Back in the 1980's and early 1990's, when I worked as an electronic engineer, engineering managers tended to have the attitude that time spent on talking was time NOT spent on working; hence they valued engineers who could "work independently," with as little discussion as possible. On the other hand, these days, at least in computer programming, the fashionable management styles are methodologies like "Agile," with lots of meetings and lots of emphasis on communication and coordination. I don't know to what extent other professions have undergone similar changes in fashionable management style, but, if so, perhaps the larger amount of communication gives people more "perspective," at least about their job.

bsickler wrote:
As for keeping stuff proprietary, I figure it’s because of competition- boomers spent their entire lives competing with other boomers, which encourages keeping information private to maintain an advantage. Gen X is smaller and doesn’t have that problem which explains why I’ve never had issues getting useful info/tips from them at work.

This too could perhaps be explained in terms of changing fashions in management style, which I think would be a more likely explanation than sheer demographics.


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19 Oct 2024, 2:16 am

I consider myself "generation Jones" as some demographers term the latter part of the baby boomers who came late to the party.



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19 Oct 2024, 5:31 am

The authors of the Agile Manifesto seem to have been predominantly Boomers or Generation Jones. But software development (the target of the Agile Manifesto) is not really the same as engineering. Communication, apart from raw technical expertise, is arguably the key to success in any project (considering so many projects fail) — which is something anyone on the AS should seriously consider if contemplatng a career in that field.


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