Close female friendships (not romantic) end in explosion

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It just happened again. This is about the sixth time a close (or otherwise important) female friendship exploded in terminal rage, hers, all poured revoltingly over me and my apparently intolerable character traits. I tend to apologise for what I can own, but my own distress follows quickly if my apology is met with escalation and a refusal to make any conciliatory moves in my direction. Why should it ALL always be me or just not happen? Am I just attracted to bullies or am I really despicable? The injustice of it all gradually burns out, but mainly I'm left with a residue of terrible, terrible sadness, feeling lost and abandoned and hopeless. This has happened at each stage of my life and at 50+ I'm losing strength and energy to pick myself up and try again. It's not often you meet a kindred spirit. It really hurts when they are laid waste, yet I am at a loss to fix (or avoid) this, short of stopping any developing friendship at all.

Sometimes, even worse, this has caused me to become cut off from other close relationships that are important, if these awful women end up partnering with men I have pre-existing connections with. Another 'what's that about?' for another day is how men cave in astonishingly quickly to ultimatums from these women. It never worked for me!

Does anyone else experience this sort of recurrent nightmare? Or have any ideas about what is going wrong here?

I'm not short of friends, and some of them are still female (!), but right now what is prominent is this terrible distress and feeling of complete powerlessness. I'm at a loss to identify the common elements, except (obvs) me, and the tirade always takes the form of objection to how I be in the world, or how I talk to them, or me 'holding myself above' or otherwise inappropriate motivations of mine that simply bear no relationship to the reasonably humble reality. And if I'm so awful, why did they want to hang out with me in the first place? Some of these people who seem unable to control their own processes and respond to everything with blame, manage to be rewarded in life, particularly with long-term partners, whereas I, who have studied and practised just about every form of conflict resolution in my professional and personal life, and (figuratively) seek to kiss and make up and sort things out and self-reflect and apologise where warranted, just end up with ringing ears.

Would love a chance to discuss this and try and figure out if there is a remedy I can bring to bear in my own life, or I need to pick better, or...? I have been told by an ex-boyfriend (who was also abusive at one stage but has become a good friend since we closed down the romance) that I am very easy to bully, and that is his explanation for at least one friendship where I consider the other person's behaviour to have been inexcusable towards me, but where I worked towards reconciliation anyway. That last female-friendship-gone-sour has sort of recovered as a result of my efforts, although we will never be truly close again, not in the old completely trusting way.

Any tips, or comparable experiences we can perhaps try and figure out together?

This sounds very tricky and difficult to deal with!

Have any of these friends had a diagnosed mental illness? Maybe you have just been unlucky with the type of people you happened to click with. Sometimes when we have personal struggles, we end up developing friendships with people who are also on the fringes in some way because we can relate to them more (for whatever reason), and this can sometimes make for toxic relationships.

Were the explosions regarding similar things? For smaller arguments, I’d say that maybe they were misinterpreting things that you said or the way that you said it, injecting meaning when you didn’t mean any. But it’s not normal to have an explosion. I’ve never done that or experienced it. I’m easy to bully, too.

You might just be really unlucky.

It might help if you could give us a little more information, if you don’t mind, about what exactly has been happening.

What reason did your former friend give for exploding and why is she warming back up to you now?

I have similar experiences with female friends. Just two recently that ended (of which one was semi-romantic).

I think in my case what happens is that I seem attractive to them (romantically or not) because I seem stable, maybe even come off as funny and happy-go-lucky.

When it continues, I want my own needs met too, like being able to discuss deeper issues or be able to express negativity if I am hurt by some of their actions (or inactions).

Then I'm usually discarded as being "too negative" or not supportive enough, no longer a happy influence in their lives.

It's especially difficult in text (online-only) I've noticed as I write more and may come off as more needy in some ways there. I'm more quiet in RL and listen to the other party more.

Thank you very much, Twilightprincess, for giving such a thoughtful response.

Some quite likely BPD and at least one suspected autist but none diagnosed

True that, never underestimate the intercession of luck.

I believe you're right on the money here. How to avoid making these choices is the thing. I simply find complex people more interesting, and there's the rub. Recently I realised if there's a strong visceral draw to a man romantically, it's a red flag not to go there. (This does not give me much hope of forming a successful sexual relationship in the future! But baby steps here.) Now I wonder if that sense of 'interesting' is something to avoid with female friendships until I get recalibration sorted. It still doesn't sound as though there's much future fun for me, though, does it?

Much as it pains me to own up to this, there could be one common element here. People think I'm telling them what to do, putting myself somehow above, or simply 'arrogant'. I am tall, with good posture, don't smile just for the sake of it, and think or talk through my views in an open, intelligent (sometimes complex) way. I've always loathed that women are expected to simper and dissemble, and yes, as a feminist, I do compete with men argumentatively (not in a heated way, but in a give-as-good-as-I-get way) because I think it important for women to have a presence in forums where opinions and expertise are being put forward.

I am always ready to defer to greater knowledge, do that 'compliments first' thing where it's due, don't elevate my opinion over anyone's evidenced knowledge, am ready to change view if I learn more information, and have strong skills in text-based expression.

But this issue in my life predates by a country mile our cultural reliance on the interwebs for social interaction.

She uses her Italian heritage as an excuse for seething in silence then exploding without warning. I have explained to her what I can about my way of being in the world, and that setting things out in advance is the best way of me not making errors, and she agreed we'd do it that way. The problem there is people think things are obvious when they're not, and also I feel attacked when something comes as if out of the blue when it's obviously been either festering for a long time, or is presenting the tip of a different iceberg that is never plainly said out loud.

We made up because we had a good foundation, I suppose. We were former friends re-met. I lived part-time in her family's house for four years; my place (in the country) is still convenient for them to stay in once a year. So a friendship of convenience as well as actual affinity.

I am a big fan of negotiating ways of communicating, and with friends who share such skills I have not run into such troubles. They are rare, though.
__________

The more recent tragedy was with someone I have met only on the internet and phone, and she is a bit of a FBfriend-grabber, but lives mainly in isolation with her partner, dogs and small livestock. We were soon to meet in person. She has a history of falling out with important people in her life, and using avoidance to resolve those interpersonal issues. Note to self: avoid people who have that sort of history; they will do it to you as well. But I wonder if that's what makes people available to me, i.e. they need friends too?

I made a social error about which she challenged me and for which I apologised, and she then started the silent treatment. I did a couple of other wrong things too, and have no idea which was the real issue for her because the way she described it made no sense, i.e. that I was trying to tell her how to live her life, trying to get all sorts of information about her, etc. Logically they were incorrect so I'm guessing it was something else, deeper. She might have felt abandoned because I had needed temporarily to suspend our FB friendship while I worked this thing out.

When I telephoned I think I opened with something like 'Where to from here?' Meaning, of course, what's our best course to get past this. What I did not expect was opened floodgates and the tirade that followed. Near as I could make out she had decided I had set myself above her. This was based on her following me pretty well everywhere on the webs and signing up all my friends, near as I could make out. Most recently she had asked my advice on choosing a computer. I said I wasn't really the person to ask, that much would depend on what she wanted to use it for, and what sorts of things would they be, e.g. video editing or ... etc. Bear in mind that, over several years now, we've discussed in text and in voice everything from politics to personal aspirations to music (we're both singers), shared songs, even done a private songwriting challenge together. I've met other internet friends in person and they have converted just fine to real friendships. It's possible she had idealised our friendship a bit and couldn't handle herself when the first speed bump came. Anyway, the opportunity is now gone. It's up to her to make contact, which is available to her, if she chooses but I have given her all the opening she needs. I don't expect her to do it because it's not her MO. She's dropped family members for less.

So yes, I think I pick badly, on the basis of being fascinated by people who have made novel life choices (perhaps because I have as well). I guess that makes them [us] a bit of a mixed bag, by definition. Short of changing my height and convictions, there's not much I can do except change how I express them. Frankly, I've made all the adjustments there I intend to.

Sorry this turned out too long. It's so hard to be succinct about these things.

I definitely relate. I can think of 6 off-hand, and probably there were more I'm not thinking of now, which happened to me. It was horrible to feel the emotional fallout from these, their final vitriolic words and the sudden silence echoing questions into the void.

One thing I recommend is to take some space. Perhaps our brains as women with ASD tend to perseverate on these negative experiences more than most. Find the places you feel good about yourself. Spend time there. Wait for the feelings and perseverations to pass. For me, that might mean a year

One thing I've learned is that these friendships, when I look back on them from my own frame of mind, had the tensions brewing for a long time. Often, I was the one who needed to set boundaries and get clearer on my commitments. Because I was waffling and not getting what I needed or feeling over-burdened, I was subtly exuding annoyance, avoidance or outright anger. Someone once told me, "Boundaries are things you set up so you don't have to feel anger." For me, there was always a sense of being pressured to do things I didn't want to be doing. Maybe it was from being clueless about friendship when I was young, I picked up what was supposed to happen from other people. Now, I have more of a sense that a friendship is only two people, and what matters is that the friendship works for those two people. I choose my friends only when there is a real desire to be invested. And say yes when there is a real yes there. Also some people might have friendship needs I just can't meet because of time, money, mental resources, or capacities I just don't have.

I think it's also true that friendships, like anything, don't have to last to be worthwhile. Sometimes two people have a lot to share for a time, and then our lives diverge. I also notice that these friendship "breakups" seemed to happen when priorities in our lives were shifting, and maybe it just wasn't the time anymore to be friends.

Hope that helps!

Ugh...
I can very much relate to the explosiveness and loss of close, specifically female, relationships.

It’s hard. And sad. And Heartbreaking at times...

I have found a few trends in my life that seem to correlate to my struggling in specific ways more with females:

Oftentimes, I notice the “female code” is more exhausting to me because the female culture tends to be less direct and desire more time spent on shared activities that may not be specifically task, depth, or progress oriented.

There is oftentimes a game of comparison and false self-effacement that is subtlety encouraged and that too is diminishing to all involved. I also notice a tendency to seek agreement- but on stuff that feels pointless to me and in a manner that oftentimes feels superficial.

I have two lively and robust female friends, and what I’ve stated above about female culture isn’t in my opinion how women “are”—- it is just more of how they’ve adapted and navigate the world.

I’ve had three “best friends” in my life—- all of them attempted to take and consume significant things and parts of my life—- my boyfriend, my money, my business network, etc... and every single time, I was the last to know and beyond confused.

I adore and enjoy my female clients greatly, but they connect with me in a very targeted and specific way. The Intention of the exchange is clear. So, I know the problem isn’t “women”- it’s this whole premise of Friendship and how many people want to flow through that.

I am finding ways to more openly verbalize my subtle concerns and things that I expend energy managing around others- like stating ahead of time that I’m really excited about some new research or something and when it’s “my turn” to GO I’m just gonna go full speed and they can jump in and stop me if we fall out of step. So far, my friends find “full Aspie” mode very entertaining and informative and I can be relieved of the constant internal tension of wondering if I’m too much, or if they are “with” me, etc. I just have my little block of time and GO!, as long as I know it is a subject my friend really loves.

I do well with friends who enjoy my mind and perspective... while I love how they engage with information and their life in general—- they have these beautiful, stable, nurturing, connected lives...

Two different communication styles going on and if one or both don't understand that, then things tend to go awry. No, its not personal ie you. It's due to differences not properly acknowledged and understood. The NT world likes things their way and they don't do compromise well. Their way or the highway is - for the most part - how NTs operate. Have you experienced the same sort of rejection from AS women?

Thank you @jofiquartz for …

“I think it's also true that friendships, like anything, don't have to last to be worthwhile. Sometimes two people have a lot to share for a time, and then our lives diverge.”

That perspective resonates with me and brings on a breath of calm. Indeed, several of my female-friend blow-outs came at pivotal lifestyle changes (settling into married life, giving birth, career shifts, changed living circumstances).

And @BLegacy …. I feel you! When I read …

“I’ve had three “best friends” in my life—- all of them attempted to take and consume significant things and parts of my life”

Wow. Same.

And although I would initially expect only NT women to be “guilty” of this kind of predation, when I look back it has been both NT, ND and AS women who have tried to poach from my hard-earned networks and interpose themselves between me and my partner.

At 49 yo, I’m done. I’ve chosen to only pursue close friendships with men. I’ll have nice, warm, friendly, we’re-all-in-the-same-friend-group kind of relationships with women…. but nothing more. It’s been 7 years and it is working so far. My best friend, a HFA man is a treasure. I support him and love him and he doesn’t try to have sex with my husband. Win-win.