NT/AS Relationships

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I have been married for 24+ years. My NT wife has suspected that I was AS for some time and I am recently self diagnosed. Previously I had been in total denial. I now find myself shocked at the pain I have caused my wife for many years, mainly because of my inability to read her emotions and reciprocate instinctively (I would know what she needs if I really loved her). Since I accepted my AS she has reacted badly. In my reasoning, we can start to deal with the issues, now that we have an understanding of them. In my wife's reasoning, there is no longer any hope as she knows I will never get better. She has been reading a number of very negative websites, with posts mainly from suicidal NT spouses, which is not helping at the moment, particularly as she has not found a single positive outcome.

Are there any successful, happy, AS/NT long term relationships out there? If so are there any hints ant tips to help us both come to terms with and overcome my limitations? (There is a good guy in here trying to get out.)

Wait a minute. Your wife has believed for some time that you have AS. And, presumably for that "some time," things were OK between you. But, you were "in denial." Now that you're entertaining the possibility that you have AS, reassessing past behavior, coming to an understanding of how you may have hurt your wife in the past, and looking for ways to improve your relationship, your wife now believes that there is no hope?!? Either I'm reading this completely wrong, or this is the most back-asswards reasoning on your wife's part I think I've ever encountered. She's married to the same guy she's always been married to. The only change is that she is now also married to someone willing to deal with marital issues in a new and more positive way. Yes, AS/NT relationships can work. They require the same "stuff" that other successful relationships require -- like mutual understanding and some rationality for starters.

Yup! That about sums up the situation. I can't see the logic in the reasoning myself but then it is me that is mixed up.

She thinks that she is suffering from Cassandra Affective Deprivation Disorder, all caused by many years of having to cope with me and my AS. For most of our married life, she thought that I was just cold and uncaring (while I may appear like this on the outside, it is far from how I am inside). I was totally oblivious to there being anything wrong. She realised I was AS after she discovered our youngest daughter was AS.

The material she is now reading on the Cassandra subject is very negative but there are so many analogies with our relationship. I am totally devastated about the pain that I have inadvertently caused and, now that I know, I want to deal with this as best as I can. Hence, my plea for some positive cases and advice. It is tough enough already, without having to break through this new barrier. I feel so guilty of a crime I never knew I committed.

You should point out to your wife that the internet, in generally, has a negative bent, because who is going to take the time to post how wonderful their life is going? Most of the posts you see on here in the love and dating forum are from bitter, depressed men who are venting.

You do not hear from the men and women with AS who are happily married very often because they are offline being happy together.

Your wife married you over 24 years ago for some reason, and stayed with you for over 24 years for some reason, and you had AS or some social problems when she married you, and for the past 24+ years, so that she is so discontent at the moment probably has little to do with your AS.

However, being aware you may have AS can be very beneficial in relationships.

Maybe you can show her somehow that you are not so cold and uncaring. Write her a heart felt letter or something about all the moments in your life/relationship that moved you, how you felt when you first met her, how you felt when you proposed and she said yes, how you felt when she married you, how you felt when your children were born. How you felt when good things happened, how you felt when bad things happened....

Appearing to be cold can be a big problem for people with AS. I used to get accused of being uncaring or inconsiderate because I didn't have much in the way of facial expressions as a child (and look younger than my younger siblings because of it), but it was very devastating and hurtful when people made these claims because I feel I was actually more caring than most people, and went out of my way more often to be considerate and do the right thing...or what I thought was the right thing.

now wait a minute. the cassandra subject is very negative. it implies that when two people communicate differently the less conventional one is to blame. or if a woman is in a relationship and does not feel emotionally satisfied her partner is to blame. it takes two to tango.

you haven't committed a crime. all you've done is be yourself.

you are obviously a caring person or you would not be so upset by the idea you had inadvertently hurt others. but some of it has obviously gotten lost in translation. perhaps your wife could try to understand this partly as a translation problem and recognize that it is difficult for you as well. her well being matters of course but so does yours.

i think someone above suggested you try to write how you feel and i think this is a good way to begin.

Thank you Chronos and Katzefrau (oder sol Ich danke schreiben) for your kind words of support. Perhaps there is some hope. I'm trying to be positive about this.

I've tried the notes. On realising that I had AS I suggested that we start keeping a log where, perhaps, we could express ourselves a little better in the written rather than spoken word. My wife lost interest very quickly. She says she needs something spontaneous. I don't do spontaneous very well. If I try, my timing is inevitably wrong and my good intentions tend to be totally out of context. Before we realised I had AS, to try to help my wife feel a little more cherished, we tried following the Men from Mars, Women from Venus stuff. That didn't work well. I could go through the actions but my wife felt I was following a list. Unfortunately, this was the case. The intent was there but I couldn't fulfil my wife's need for me to instinctively know what she wanted. I can follow the book and do the right things but I fail at spontaneity and timing.

Here is the current issue: my wife knows that I love her and that I have always loved her. She tells me that she loves me but that I have systematically damaged her over the years because of my AS and she doesn't think I can do enough to change things for the better. I hope she is not right. In the meantime I must not expect any effort from her to help me recognise where I do or don't get things right. She says she has nothing left to give.

Since realising I have AS, I have lost all self confidence. Now that I know that I cannot rely on my own reasoning, I have suddenly become overly passive. It's a shame that I didn't know about my AS a few years ago. Perhaps my wife would have been a little more supportive before she was so badly damaged and I would not be in this position now. I can't turn the clock back though, even if I could, I still don’t really know what I have done wrong.

The Cassandra thing is real, just as real as AS. There are plenty of damaged women in the same state as my wife. Unfortunately, while I recognise that I have been the cause of her hurt, I am not yet capable of understanding what it is that I have done and my wife can’t explain. I am very frustrated as I would never intentionally hurt or damage my wife. I am also in danger of going over the top in trying to make things right. Finding out about my AS and trying to find a work around is my latest obsession. I have to tread carefully otherwise I may go over the top and make things worse. Anyway, enough said. It sounds like I’m crying into my tea so I’ll say no more and look on the bright side. At least we are still talking.

Sorry BassMan for your situation. She has been with you for so long so I would not despair. I think she has been hit hard by the diagnosis, she may need time to cope with it. Unfortunately, she cannot expect you to become something you are not. Asperger is a developmental disorder not something that you can snap out of. It seems that you are putting a lot of effort in trying to cherish and please her and I think that this is huge. You are doing your best to give her what she needs. I hope she realizes that. Is there an area of your marriage that has been always strong? Perhaps you can capitalize on that. Perhaps she can try to focus on yhe qualities that she appreciates in you and that attracted her in the first place (dependable? good provider? loyal?) Also, she may need to learn new ways to be happy with herself by getting involved with new hobbies, new friends or volunteer work so she does not fully rely on you to get that warm feeling that she needs. Some therapy may also help your marriage, but make sure the therapist knows a great deal about Asperger or even better is an expert. Good luck.

Thanks AndreaLuna for the kind advice.

I keep going over things but I still don't really know what has gone wrong with our marriage so it's a bit difficult to know what is strong about it. There must have been something right once, we produced two wonderful daughters. I appear to have been in a different marriage to my wife for all of these years.

Yes! She was attracted to me because she thought I would be dependable, good provider, loyal, etc., and she reckons I have done as good a job as I can at all of these things. Interesting though, she said the other day that a woman would rather be with a disloyal liar as long as she felt loved sometimes. I was shocked and gutted. I don't think she realised how much that hurt (Oh yes! I have no feelings to hurt). I doubt if I could be disloyal: nobody else would have me and, at my time in life, I wouldn't know where to start. I could try telling her the odd lie though; I think I could manage that if I tried but I don't think that would help.

Seriously though; we have both been looking for a therapist who deals with AS issues. We are not having much luck in Hong Kong. Recommendations are welcome.

Maybe I can help you with spontaneous. Women like to be thrilled on occasion.

Here are a few things that she might consider spontaneous.

1. Go on to yelp.com and find a restaurant you've never been to before within your general area, which has an atmosphere or cuisine you haven't experience before. Then tell her at a time that seems appropriate to discuss dinner plans, that there's this restaurant you want to try and say "Why don't we go there tonight?"

2. Suggest an activity or hobby to do on your days off that you two usually don't do.
Here are some suggestions. Hiking, ATV'ing, bicycling, rock climbing, surfing, sailing, museums, art galleries. Don't say "I was wondering if you wanted to maybe..." Say "Hey, let's try (whatever)" or "Let's go (whatevering)!" If she says no, then say "Come on, it will be fun!" And if she still says no, then suggest another activity.

3. Take up a new hobby yourself, and choose something not related to anything you already have an interest in, and choose something your wife could do with you. This could be something as simple as going to the gym to get in shape, if you are not.

4. Suggest going on vacation somewhere, and vacation differently than you normally do. If you are usually a resort of convenience type vacation person, do an off the beaten path vacation. Why not visit Iceland? Get some broshures of the place you want to go, plop them on the table in front of her, look her in the eye and say "I want to go here," while pointing your finger down on to them.

In other words, pretend you are the boyfriend she is cheating on you with (hopefully she isn't cheating on you of course), and thrill her to her toes. If you love her and she is going to leave you, you might as well have one last blast of fun as a couple, and it may turn things around. Show her that you can be fun and exciting and that she doesn't know everything about you yet. Of course still respect practicality. We'll see how spontaneous SHE really is. Probably no more than you.

quote="BassMan_720"]
I still don’t really know what I have done wrong.[/quote]

You may not have actually done anything "wrong". People grow apart and their needs and priorities change. You may have just not acted in a way that your wife wished you would act, and honestly, this isn't something a person should be blamed for, because at the end of the day, none of us are mind readers, your wife included.

Lots of very good advice here. Bassman, I really feel for you because the situation you describe is quite similar to what mine was a few years ago. Unfortunately, my wife and I were not able to get through it. I sincerely hope you are better at working it out than we were.

On the positive side, you have 24 years of history together. Congratulations ... that in itself is an achievement. You must have been doing something right!

With the benefit of hindsight, I think the key to these kinds of crises, as it is with most any marital crisis, is to continue to treat each other with love and respect and recognize that you are in this together. Anything that "damages" one of you, damages both of you. Each of you has to be willing to give in and compromise on something, whatever it may be.

Your AS is not just your problem, it's hers too, and likewise her Cassandra reaction isn't just her problem, it's also yours. In my case, just recognizing and accepting that simple fact would have taken us a long way.

I wish you the best. There are no magic words that can solve these problems ... only love and making the effort to work it out can do that. Good luck.

If your wife is in despair because of the gloom-and-doom websites she's reading, give her something more positive to read.

The book Loving Mr. Spock has a more positive slant than whatever she is reading on the websites. It gives helpful directions for AS man/NT woman couples. All of that "divorce or suicide are the only possible outcomes" stuff is damaging but she's craving information. Buy Loving Mr. Spock for her. It can't hurt (those websites are hurting enough) and there is the chance it will help.

Wow, that does not sound fun.

I am a recently diagnosed (professionally, neuropsychologist) Asperger, and nearly 10 years as a paraplegic (T6 complete ASIA A). My situation may be considered a bit different, as I am also a lesbian, but I am married to an amazing wife (not a governmental marriage, just spiritual).

While she did know I was a paraplegic when we met, she had no idea about the Autism. She has stated that she wondered about many of my oddities, but she has said that while some can be trying for her at times, for the most part she simply finds me interesting, fun, and fascinating. She absolutely values my innate honesty, even when it is an honesty that some people may not care for. Knowing my honesty and forthrightness, she has security in my feelings for her. Though we may not have a "traditional" marriage, or even traditional lesbian relationship (in some ways, due to me), she has said she has never felt more cared for, loved, appreciated, secure, comfortable, and happy with anyone ever. She knows that she can be equally honest with me. Our interests overlap in many areas.. reading, music, movies, etc.

Life is not all days of happiness and thrills.

She gets to endure my tantrums, meltdowns, shutdowns, inappropriate behavior with friends and strangers, my child-like outbursts, my tics and stims (one stim is squeezing her), my inability to manage money, my dawdling, my need to smell everything, my commentary on smells, my preseverative smells, my sensory defensiveness (across all fo the 5 main ones, pretty severely in some areas), my prosopagnosia, and other bits of fun. Neither one of us had any idea about Autism until about 6 months ago. When I first started to investigate.. that first day, I spoke to her at work and mentioned Autism, specifically Asperger Syndrome. She laughed at me, and I nearly hung up on her, instead stopping myself, but becoming very stern and short with her. That night she asked me if she had offended me on the phone, and I replied, "Yes. Very much so." And then I showed her what I had found. She was convinced rather quickly... less than an hour of reading. Within weeks, she was more convinced than I was. She constantly kept me on course while going through the multi-visit diagnoses.

Discovering this has strengthened our relationship. She now understands the impetus behind so much of... me. I have even asked her if she realizes that this is me, that I will not undergo any drastic change.. ever. Incredible as always, she replied, "Well, I will not be changing either.. you are stuck with this me as well." In this, one of the things she spoke of is her seemingly inborn need to be around animals.. of which we have several, which will likely become many over the years. Luckily, I love animals just as much.

I am sorry if it is rude to post a "success story" (at least so far... over 6 years now, so not a marathon yet). I have experienced several failed relationships over the years, and even figured I would simply be a loner in my home and bed. It shocked me to find someone I could spend this amount of time with; we are rarely apart except for her time at work, though at home we each have our little "alone spots" in our small duplex home. Music is my special interest, which she finds amusing at times.

I posted this because.. well, I guess to provide a true story of how it can happen. I have seen/read of others, so I am not alone. To the OP.. yes, it sucks that you are going through this. I have seen/read of others who experienced bad times and thus wished they could be more NT just to have the supposed "dream family" type thing, or at least the coziness of the "traditional couple." Funny thing is, I have rarely seen ANY relationship last several decades, regardless of various aspects/contributors. Somehow I think I will remain just as baffled as I am today over how I ended up where I am.

Wow!

Thank you all for some very positive and good advice. I had been heading towards a very dark place but your messages have really picked me up.

Chronos: While I have tried spontaneous in the past, I have become reluctant and more than little afraid of getting things wrong (again and again). I ought to have another go. I'm not confident I can get it right but I can have fun trying; whether my wife appreciates it or not.

Janissy: Consider the book ordered. My wife often complains that she is living with Mr Spock so it is very appropriate. I know that there are lots of books out there on the subject. It is really good to get a positive recommendation.

Stone_Man: I'm really sorry that things didn't work out for you. I will be taking your advice very seriously.

aMuse: My heart goes out to you. You deserve your success story.