AS and Egocentricity?

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I put this here because I want a more depth mature answer and some good concrete advice.

A good amount of my social problems come from the fact that i have not developed beyond the ego central thought process. Its like that saying, God is self = Autism.

I split everything naturally between what applies to me and what doesn't apply to me. What is me and what isn't me.

Before it gets categorized into anything further it is linked with, "this is me, this is not me."
I'm sure if you look at my posts you'll see I do a lot of self reference.
When I look at someone's post I automatically think, "this is like me, this is not like me." From there, I build my analysis, conclusion, ect.

This is both good and bad but it comes in to major play with my roommate, really the only human contact I have. She is a big feeler and while she is smart, it still gets to her.

Of course, when she brings up that she is upset with me I automatically crumble and it isn't because I upset her, they are because I FAILED. The emotional components never last long either they are weak and surface and I soon detach to deal with things again, rationally and logically. She can not stand this. (but has gotten better)

The situation was as follows,
She came to me with the idea that she might have skin cancer. First of all, because I will only talk to someone about something if it is a well thought out idea and has significant amount of proof behind its conclusion I automatically assume this is how others will work. I don't understand the idea of telling someone something for the sake of telling them. I went almost a year not telling her one of my personal opinions on something that happened between us because I did not see the need of it. It was an event that was done and over with and I was completely oblivious to how much damage it did and how it was eating away at her day after day after day. After that, it got a little better and than I went right back to how I have always been. Silent, in my own mind, my own world, egocentric. Logic logic logic, oblivious to emotion.

She just told me that she was phoning the doctor for a physical and that she might have skin cancer and nothing more, I could not for the life of me figure out why she thought it was important to bring this up if there was nothing else to it and so I reacted based on previous studies and judgments I have made about her. I know this is not a good idea because it never works out well. She is a feeler, she is irrational, I will never understand how she thinks end of story. I'd probably be able to write a book of analysis of her but because theres five million exceptions to all the rules it would take eons and be rather unreadable. You cannot logically analyze someone of pure heart impulse. Damn this reality. I MUST KNOW EVERYTHING THAT PERTAINS TO MY WORLD, because I am incredible and can do anything and I'm always right and all of that.

So what did I do.. Well I reacted with first thought analysis. Being that I'm a long range thinker I don't do well responding to a question right than and there but since I cannot understand why she said such a thing with no closure I act and fail.

I respond, "Well, technically everyone has cancer you know? You're not going to die this instant but it really doesn't matter because skin cancer or not we're all going to die eventually right?" as if this would ease her anxiety and obscene fear of death (something I also often lack because of my extreme detachment of emotions, even if they do reside in me they are never applied right. I'm so oblivious to the world and figure that No.. this car wont hit me it will stop and if it doesn't than its stupid and I'll sue the bastard.) Well it didn't, but she took it well and said nothing like "that didn't help, lets talk this through. I feel ______ about this situation, I'm telling you this situation because of ______, what should I do?"

So this got me thinking, I never wear sunscreen what if I have cancer? While I think constantly inside my head I do apply thinking out loud as well and because she was there and she brought up the topic I started thinking over the possibilities of me having skin cancer and what would I do about it. Because she had knowledge to exchange in this topic as I am poor and have not lived in this area as long as she did I expected she would be interested in verbal strategic. Because I'm poor, I have no family doctor and all of that it went in to a big huge spiral of the workings of the health system, the possibilities of what could be and how to counter them. The millions of ways to work around these complications. Ect, strategic brainstorming you could say. Of course because I am most definitely not a feeler I figure she too was utilizing these idea's or applying them to her own situation.. ect, ect instead of focusing on how I feel about the situation because, I didn't really feel about the situation at all.

I KNOW she doesn't work this way, why can I not grasp this?

The idea that she had not thought through it on her own before she came to me with this bout of information did not strike me as I never really say anything unless I have not thought it out before hand or as I stated above, if I do not have extensive proof.

Stupid? Well yes, at the time I figured it was appropriate. How? No idea, I feel like an incompetent buffoon. You would figure that being housed by irrational feelers all my life I would know more about this subject. Egocentricity says: NOT. Cannot connect.

So time moves on, a half hour comes by and she comes out with how she is pissed off at me. (which is an improvement, usually she would let it build and build until it exploded and than completely overload me with so much emotions I panic and almost stopped breathing once.) Of course, brain automatically concludes the following:

You are a natural scientist, a brilliant man and YOU CAN'T UNDERSTAND A WOMAN FEELER? YOU FAIL. Leading to, YOU ALWAYS DO THIS, YOU HAVE LEARNED NOTHING.

And the ultimate INTJ insult, You are incompetent, incapable of learning, incapable of understanding.

And shut down completely. I sat in the closet staring at the wall racking my brain over what I did wrong, how I am going to rationalize this. How can I logically fix and attack this problem? How do I understand her, how can I better enhance things? How can I battle emotions with logic? What is my problem, why do I always think like this? Why could I not see the outcome of this when I can see the outcome of things like this when I am not involved, when I am completely detached and just observing? This must mean I am stupid, I am missing something, I cannot work properly. I must be incapable and non functioning. It just went on and on and on forever.


Now that I've written an essay, I ask does anyone else have these problem? Is there anyone else that thinks like this?

Idea's, comments, feedback. Anything would be nice.

Its a problem that comes up and has come up with EVERYTHING having to do with NTs.

Have you tried to stock up on phrases along the lines of "Everything will be OK" and "Just don't worry about it"
I find people like to unload on me with emotional stuff, since I possibly don't react too much to it, and think rationally about it - are you sure she even wants you to react as you think she does.
I don't think I've been around many feelers though, so I wouldn't rely too much on me...

some people are so emotional about everthing you could call them drama queens. it's a form of egotism too. i have neighbours like that. i've had to tell them i don't want them telling me all their problems. so far it's working but if you let people, they'll be unloading all their problems and worries on you all the time, it's tedious.

aspies seem to attract that sort of thing, i've had complete strangers wanting to take up hours of my time telling me their worries and woes, ugh.

the skin cancer thing sounds like a bid for sympathy, sure. my sister had a small skin cancer on the side of her nose, there's a cream you rub on, i don't think she's had any further problems. some skin cancers aren't too bad. in my sister's case, she's always talking about illness, it's a 'lets talk about me' thing, an ego thing.

aspies egocentrity can be annoying yeah, i have to keep mine on a short leash, but nt egocentrcity is just as bad but it's presented in a more socially acceptable form. they're cleverer about it than we are. genuinely humble people, whether AS or NT are in short supply. i think my egocentricity is a problem and it's a personal goal of mine to try and acquire humility, that way i figure i can't be offending too many people.

here's an interesting quote from another thread here:

I have this same problem and my husband has been trying to point it out, "it's not all about yoooooou!"
The best solution is to throw back a question, "how do you feel about that?" and if she has already told you, just agree. Because really, there's nothing to argue over, if she is explaining her feelings. It feels dishonest, yes. But that's because our perspective of the discussion [why someone would bring up cancer in casual conversation] is different than their perspective [I'm sharing a thought in my head and want some feedback, consolation, support].

Emotional people need really sympathetic people around them. The problem with that is that support system can wear down. I had a friend that could rely on me "to be there" when she was upset. I didn't gush, hug or say anything appropriate. But I was there to lessen the loneliness, to entertain family members or let her vent. She had other friends to hug, help, send cards, etc but they weren't always available to her.

So, if your roommate shares with you, she needs that. Don't try to help and don't try to second guess. Just keep a stockpile of "sympathetic" phrases and "how do you feel about it?". She may really subconciously want someone to be flat and less reactive.

Thank you everyone who posted here

William, your analysis is great, thank you for this.
Brought me back to ground.

I find that when someone is confiding a fear the best thing to do is echo what they say back to them and then wait to see if they agree with what you said. If they don't further clarify it, then you say something to the effect that you understand how they feel and that you will be there for them.

This is standard marriage counseling 101, but it will work in any situation. If you do this, you will NEVER again have this problem.

oops, double post


Merle

The crux of it is the same for me too...I detest it when someone plops their comment out and then EXPECT YOU to provide all the support and emotional backup for them when they haven't even taken the time to explore their own thoughts about it.

They want to talk through it!

The emotions aren't something to be battled, they're something to be channeled... both to help the person and to gather data for your own ends.

Next time someone comes to you with "I think I have skin cancer.", try this. First, don't get all wound up over your health... you're not the one with the strange mole that's growing on your arm, or whatnot. She's the one who has some spot that's acting weird, so stop obsessing over yourself. Be there for her emotionally while gathering her data. What sort of a logical, scientific person doesn't gather data when the opportunity presents itself, anyway?

In the following, the typical reactions to what you're doing and saying and the practical applications thereof are in brackets.

"Oh my god, are you serious?" (emotional validation, reinforcement that you care, helps her open up to you about the problem so that you may gather data)

"Where? What does it look like?" (makes it obvious you want to help her + aids in data collection)

*drag out biological and medical books* (You're going to the trouble to drag out the references. This is reassuring, and provides further emotional reinforcement that you do indeed give a damn. When you're gathering data, this greases the chute if you will. When people think you don't give a damn, they tend to either clam up or get pissed off. Neither is conducive to gathering your data.)

*looks at spot* "Has it been growing? How long have you had it?" (makes it obvious you want to help her + aids in data collection)

*compare spot to books* (helps categorize problematic spot, and again reinforces that you give a damn because you're putting forth obvious effort)

*discuss with her which one it might be* (helps gather further data, plus is emotionally comforting for her)

*ask if any relatives of hers have had any strange spots (benign or otherwise) or problems with cancer, and if so which ones and what kinds?* (data collection)

*give your opinion of what it might be, but admit you could easily be wrong* (reassurance)

*reassure that as small as the spot is, the doctor should be able to remove it* (reassurance)

*encourage her to go to a doctor pronto* (this is just basic ethics. people with a potentially life-threatening medical problem need to be encouraged to get help for it. It also reinforces the notion that you care about her, thereby aiding in further data collection.)

If she wants to talk about her fear of death, any other people she knows who have had strange spots or cancer, etc. give her your full attention. (She's probably going through some mortality-related issues right now, and the psychological data on such things is fascinating anyhow.)

*when she goes to the doctor later, make it a point to ask how it all went* (satisfies your intellectual curiousity as to whether or not your idea was correct, and also reinforces the notion that you give a damn about her, making her even more apt to come to you with her data in the future.)

WARNING!

all this expenditure of energy will stimulate a connection between her and you, and she will exhibit a strong connection towards you. This is called bonding. She can't help it any more than you can help being how you are. You might also have a latent residue of it too. Remember it will be stronger in her than it is in you, so don't forget later when YOU find yourself in a pickle, SHE will respond with concern and solicitation.

Try not to resent it, ok? She is just being reciprocal.

Merle