I am Enraged

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This is further to a posting I made Here:

http://www.wrongplanet.net/postt130814.html

This time it is Bruce who is at Fault. Tara acquits herself fairly well.

I am just so angry that these kind of conversations are going on while I am at Work.

In the Morning, it will be Ultimatum time: Lose the Internet Loser or Lose Me. For Good.



B (18/07/2010 10:57:03 PM): whatever they were to be
T (18/07/2010 10:57:47 PM): could you explain that last part I don't understand your point
B (18/07/2010 10:58:07 PM): the different possibilities you are talking about
T (18/07/2010 11:00:03 PM): I'm just saying that when a man and woman have a difference of opinion if the man can't understand what the woman
is saying it's her fault when it is possible that the man just won't open up their mind enough to see the woman's side.
B (18/07/2010 11:00:21 PM): not saying its your fault
B (18/07/2010 11:00:29 PM): just saying it seemed like you wanted sex with me
T (18/07/2010 11:01:07 PM): we hadn't talked that way for months before I even met Paul
B(18/07/2010 11:01:27 PM): ya cause i turned you down
T (18/07/2010 11:01:56 PM): there's that ego again wow interesting
B (18/07/2010 11:02:08 PM): so you werent offering it
T (18/07/2010 11:03:09 PM): we were talking but it sure didn't seem like it would ever happen, and as I recall you did your fair share of talking as well
B (18/07/2010 11:03:24 PM): me
B (18/07/2010 11:03:25 PM): never
T (18/07/2010 11:03:41 PM): right!?!
B (18/07/2010 11:03:53 PM): cant deny it i liked seeing your breast
T (18/07/2010 11:05:26 PM): but that's as far as it would ever go since we both wanted different things. For a while you ran pretty hot and cold so I assumed it was all talk
B (18/07/2010 11:05:53 PM): i would've loved to go to bed with you but i could tell you wanted more
T (18/07/2010 11:06:17 PM): interesting
B (18/07/2010 11:06:32 PM): didnt think you wanted me for a lay
T (18/07/2010 11:07:13 PM): again interesting, besides you were always against meeting let alone anything else
B (18/07/2010 11:07:35 PM): cause i felt you wanted more and i didnt want to hurt you
B (18/07/2010 11:07:52 PM): you didnt speak plain english to me
T (18/07/2010 11:08:28 PM): actually I'm pretty sure I did but it's kind of irrelevant now isn't it
B (18/07/2010 11:08:41 PM): wow guess i missed the signs
T (18/07/2010 11:08:51 PM): guess so
B (18/07/2010 11:09:05 PM): i thought i was just a game
T (18/07/2010 11:09:15 PM): how so
B (18/07/2010 11:09:29 PM): someone safe you could flirt and play with
B (18/07/2010 11:09:34 PM): and not have to worry
T (18/07/2010 11:10:34 PM): I truly didn't think that you were at all interested and that it was a means to an end for you
B (18/07/2010 11:10:55 PM): guess i fooled you
T (18/07/2010 11:11:12 PM): could you explain that to me please
B (18/07/2010 11:11:29 PM): i would've done you if i knew you just wanted to get laid
B (18/07/2010 11:11:33 PM):
blushing' align=textTop src="file:///C:/Program%20Files/Yahoo!/Messenger/media/smileys/9.gif" sm="9">
T (18/07/2010 11:12:09 PM): and yet still you wouldn't meet, bizarre
B (18/07/2010 11:12:27 PM): ya cause i thought you wanted more then a lay
T (18/07/2010 11:14:12 PM): I probably would have, but maybe that's why things worked out as they did since I found a soul mate and I don't know if
that's something you would ever look for
B (18/07/2010 11:15:10 PM): darn
T (18/07/2010 11:15:16 PM): huh
B (18/07/2010 11:15:29 PM): would've been fun if we went to bed
T (18/07/2010 11:16:00 PM): quite entirely possible, I guess we'll never know
B (18/07/2010 11:16:29 PM): true
T (18/07/2010 11:17:06 PM): but at least we can still be friends and have some pretty good chats on here
B (18/07/2010 11:17:25 PM): now you have me daydreaming
T (18/07/2010 11:17:38 PM): about
B (18/07/2010 11:17:50 PM): your breast
T (18/07/2010 11:18:09 PM): they haven't changed much
B (18/07/2010 11:18:21 PM): wonder how they would fee
B (18/07/2010 11:18:23 PM): feel
T (18/07/2010 11:19:06 PM): I'm sure they'd feel like any others out there
B (18/07/2010 11:19:18 PM): lol
B (18/07/2010 11:19:19 PM): guess
T (18/07/2010 11:19:53 PM): seeing as I haven't gone around feeling other women's breasts
B (18/07/2010 11:20:00 PM): maybe you should
T (18/07/2010 11:20:23 PM): no thanks, I don't swing that way
B (18/07/2010 11:20:45 PM): lol
T (18/07/2010 11:21:17 PM): I'll leave that job up to you, they're all yours
B (18/07/2010 11:21:26 PM): your breast ??
T (18/07/2010 11:21:39 PM): all the others out there
B (18/07/2010 11:21:44 PM): o hokay
T (18/07/2010 11:22:25 PM): see aren't I generous to allow you to do that, lol
B (18/07/2010 11:22:32 PM): you are
T (18/07/2010 11:23:17 PM): just the natural me showing my true colours, generous to a fault. lol
B (18/07/2010 11:23:31 PM): wanna tell the ladies this rule
T (18/07/2010 11:24:04 PM): you send them to me and I'll tell them for you, how's that
B (18/07/2010 11:24:29 PM): ok
T (18/07/2010 11:25:11 PM): just warn me as to when they'll start showing up at my door so I'm prepared
T (18/07/2010 11:28:41 PM): Well I'd best sign off for now, have a lot to do tomorrow and should get up at a half way decent hour for a change
B (18/07/2010 11:28:54 PM): sorry i froze up
T (18/07/2010 11:29:06 PM): You did or your computer
B (18/07/2010 11:29:15 PM): computer
T (18/07/2010 11:29:40 PM): I guess it's pretty much your bedtime soon too right?
B (18/07/2010 11:29:50 PM): nah i start late tomorrow
T (18/07/2010 11:30:02 PM): what is considered late
B (18/07/2010 11:30:07 PM): 945
T (18/07/2010 11:30:29 PM): that's not much later than when Paul gets home
B (18/07/2010 11:30:36 PM): oh okay
B (18/07/2010 11:30:42 PM): usually i start at 815
T (18/07/2010 11:31:05 PM): so if you start later do you finish later as well
B (18/07/2010 11:31:10 PM): nope
B (18/07/2010 11:31:15 PM): workshare hours
T (18/07/2010 11:31:31 PM): yeah!
B (18/07/2010 11:31:42 PM): yes
T (18/07/2010 11:32:26 PM): I hope things work out for you with all of this work crap
B (18/07/2010 11:32:33 PM): hopefully
B (18/07/2010 11:32:38 PM): i hate looking for a new job
T (18/07/2010 11:32:50 PM): tell me about it
B (18/07/2010 11:32:55 PM): lol
B (18/07/2010 11:33:02 PM): but i can do it again if i have to
T (18/07/2010 11:33:50 PM): that's the spirit. I swear I don't know anyone who took looking for a job more seriously than you did
B (18/07/2010 11:34:03 PM): lol
B (18/07/2010 11:34:08 PM): i am hardcore
T (18/07/2010 11:34:22 PM): you betcha
B (18/07/2010 11:34:33 PM): its how i work
T (18/07/2010 11:35:31 PM): something to be proud of. Anyway I really have to go literally and figuratively so hopefully we'll chat soon okay
B (18/07/2010 11:35:43 PM): maybe we can
T (18/07/2010 11:36:02 PM): why only maybe
B (18/07/2010 11:36:17 PM): it may be a week or more before we can do it
T (18/07/2010 11:36:26 PM): why's that
B (18/07/2010 11:36:34 PM): you may be busy
T (18/07/2010 11:37:19 PM): actually Paul is on holidays for the next two weeks but most of our time will be at home, too expensive to do much else
B (18/07/2010 11:37:29 PM): lol
B (18/07/2010 11:37:38 PM): home is perfect for a holiday
B (18/07/2010 11:37:42 PM):

T (18/07/2010 11:38:40 PM): yep especially when he just bought us a 46'' flat screen TV
B (18/07/2010 11:38:47 PM): lol
B (18/07/2010 11:38:55 PM): that wasnt what i had in mind
T (18/07/2010 11:39:10 PM): I know but I'm being a good girl
T (18/07/2010 11:39:18 PM): for now
B (18/07/2010 11:39:31 PM): LOL
B (18/07/2010 11:39:37 PM): we do think alike at times
T (18/07/2010 11:39:51 PM): true very true
B (18/07/2010 11:40:01 PM): your lucky i am not paul
T (18/07/2010 11:40:09 PM): why's that
B (18/07/2010 11:40:21 PM): cause i would stuff you like a turkey
T (18/07/2010 11:40:38 PM): ya right!
B (18/07/2010 11:40:49 PM): oh i would
B (18/07/2010 11:40:52 PM): and i dont mean with bread
T (18/07/2010 11:41:04 PM): I would hope not
B (18/07/2010 11:41:10 PM):

T (18/07/2010 11:41:22 PM): naughty naughty
B (18/07/2010 11:41:32 PM): yes
B (18/07/2010 11:41:33 PM): yes
T (18/07/2010 11:41:56 PM): now who's the one playing it safe?
B (18/07/2010 11:42:07 PM): you are
T (18/07/2010 11:42:20 PM): ME??????????
B (18/07/2010 11:42:28 PM): sure
T (18/07/2010 11:42:35 PM): how so?
B (18/07/2010 11:42:50 PM): cause i cant figure it out how i am playing it sage
B (18/07/2010 11:42:53 PM): safe
T (18/07/2010 11:43:28 PM): saying things that you know there is not a chance that they'd be followed through on
B (18/07/2010 11:43:39 PM): ask paul then
T (18/07/2010 11:43:50 PM): ask him what?
B (18/07/2010 11:44:00 PM): if he needs a tag team partner
T (18/07/2010 11:44:11 PM): sick
B (18/07/2010 11:44:26 PM): LOL
T (18/07/2010 11:44:55 PM): you're something I'll tell you that much
B (18/07/2010 11:45:05 PM): you bet
T (18/07/2010 11:45:26 PM): don't worry I'm sure of that much
B (18/07/2010 11:45:41 PM): not worried at all
T (18/07/2010 11:46:06 PM): so we will chat later then right?
B (18/07/2010 11:46:20 PM): ya when paul is done stuffing you
T (18/07/2010 11:46:52 PM): get your mind out the gutter it is Sunday after all
B (18/07/2010 11:47:09 PM): not in cutter
B (18/07/2010 11:47:13 PM): gutter in a bed
T (18/07/2010 11:47:34 PM): yet again sick
B (18/07/2010 11:47:46 PM): you bet
T (18/07/2010 11:47:51 PM): gotta luv ya
B (18/07/2010 11:47:59 PM): no one else does
T (18/07/2010 11:48:18 PM): I never believed it and never will
B (18/07/2010 11:48:29 PM): okay
T (18/07/2010 11:49:05 PM): so until we chat again, night night and have sweet dreams
B is typing...
B (18/07/2010 11:49:11 PM): will try
T (18/07/2010 11:49:20 PM): chow

Honestly I don't think suspicion and rage is what a relationship should be built on.

I think you need to stop reading her chat logs and slow things down. I kind of get the impression she didn't want to flirt with Bruce and was trying to be civil about it.

No she doesn't encourage him, Good for Her! However I have my Fiancee chatting with "a friend" who tells her how much he wants to F*ck her half a Dozen times in the course of the Chat! The Hell with that!

I'd be enraged too, frankly. I do think you have to talk to her about it. I wouldn't know how to go about it, though.

I hope it goes as well as possible.

yeeuch....

Whilst I don't think reading chat logs is a good idea (can lead to misinterpretation), this guy is a bit creepy.

Your partner's replies are ok, and she is telling him off, but I think you are within your rights to be pissed off.

I can imagine this just being innocent crap that got out of hand. I had a friend who used to make comments like that too- I would do the same thing as your partner, try to deflect the subject as quickly as possible. Only thing is, in real life, it would be over in seconds; on MSN it's there in text forever more.

I dunno. Not really a lot you can do except either ignore it or demand she end the friendship (and risk her wrath for having snooped on her messages). You chould just sort of say that you think that he is interested in more than a platonic relationship and you're uncomfortable with him. From the sounds of it, he is a bit forward (come to think of it, so was my friend.. it's hard to see at the time). Hopefully she'll start to be creeped out soon enough too; she did sound a little uncomfortable herself from that segment.



Has she kept that promise so far? It looks like she may be trying hard to from the recent conversation which is a good sign, or else she simply isn't attracted to him anymore and he still thinks of himself as Mr gorgeous.


---------------------


edit: just read the other thread. Yeesh, if you're planning on marrying her I think it's a small favour to ask that she dumps the guy she met on a dating site and used to have a crush on. Just ask it as a huge favour and blame it on the male ego!

Or else think seriously about marrying her. People gave you some pretty good advice in your previous thread. You sound like a jealous guy (no offense intended) and she sounds like a flirt. That's a tricky combination, unless she hasn't acted similarily since.

Also, when do you plan to trust her enough to stop spying on her chats?

oops, i thought it said "engaged"

EPILOGUE:

Lene, you gave some Great Advice. On Monday morning, Tara admitted that Brian had gone over the top and reluctantly agreed to suspend the Relationship. We drafted and sent a "Dear Bruce" message:


T (19/07/2010 6:53:21 PM): Dear Bruce: How was work Today? OK, I hope. Paul read the Chat Log of our conversation last night and as you can well imagine, was pretty upset. He said that he had gone along with you and I remaining friends on the condition that our conversations were just Platonic, friendly chats. He said that me, "having a male friend who says how much he wants to have sex with you half-a-dozen-times in the course of one chat" was "not acceptable". I argued against this initially but when Paul said that, "I wouldn't be too happy if the shoe was on the other foot" I had to admit he had a point. How would I feel if he was chatting with a 35-year-old female who commented on the tightness of his tush and said how much she would like to mount him?
T (19/07/2010 6:54:21 PM): It wouldn't matter how correct and upright Paul was, such a conversation would make me feel very uncomfortable. Bruce, I'm very sorry if anything I said misled you into thinking that we had more than a Platonic relationship. Paul is always saying that, "Men don't do Platonic very well" and I'm starting to wonder if there might be some truth to that statement. I'd hate to think that something I said that was intended as harmless flirting was interpreted as a come-on or an invitation to something more.
T (19/07/2010 6:54:50 PM): Bruce, I hate to do this but I feel we need to suspend our conversations for an extended period of time. I am very serious about my relationship with Paul and I don't want to do anything that will harm that relationship. You know that I think the world of you and I believe that if you'd put forth a little more effort, you would find the Girl of your Dreams. Don't hide your light under a rock. I am hoping that when we resume talking again, you'll be in a better place in that regard. I wish only the best for you.
T (19/07/2010 6:55:27 PM): I need you to know how much I've enjoyed our friendship but my relationship with the man I know to be my soul mate has to take priority. Please don't hate me.

B (19/07/2010 6:56:37 PM): never hated you . but its good to see you are letting another guy control you
T (19/07/2010 6:57:48 PM): Actually I see it as my finally taking control of my own life. Please take care, you deserve the best.
B (19/07/2010 6:57:56 PM): LOL
B (19/07/2010 6:57:57 PM): okay
T (19/07/2010 6:59:30 PM): I'm sorry if I've hurt you, but I think this is probably the best for everyone. Good bye for a while.
B (19/07/2010 7:00:09 PM): hate to break your heart but i am not hurt at all
T (19/07/2010 7:00:43 PM): whatever makes you happy
B (19/07/2010 7:01:14 PM): ya okay
T (19/07/2010 7:01:41 PM): good bye
B (19/07/2010 7:01:46 PM): ya okay

This was very good but it didn't quite end there. The discussion (between Tara and I) went on for a couple more days culminating in a Huge argument on Wednesday night. Tara promised that she will be more cautious in the future in her relationships with men such that friendly chatting will not be misinterpreted as flirting.

As for the Trust issue, I need to find out whether the Bruce incident was just some leftover POF business, or if it was an indicator of a flaw in her character. Certainly if she tries to contact Bruce again or if another Bruce comes along, I will have my answer. Another affair of this sort would definitely end our relationship.

Your reading her personal chat log, that doesn't bode well for the relationship, but I can understand why you are pissed off, if it was me, I would have ended the relationship with her

I think if she can't stop talking to him you should end it. Happy in love women don't want to IM other men.

why would she even get into those conversations anyway. i get annoyed when male friends start talking like that to me online. unless it was someone i wanted to talk to me that way. but she has a bf:/.
& for some reason i actually feel abit sorry for bruce, if anyone.

Thank you People, I will keep this thread updated.

Based on your first post, this guy Bruce seems like a wind-up merchant, who has been playing her all along, and it comes across that she is telling him that she recognises that.

It seems like this:

People who do this are seriously bad news, this is "Nice Guy" behaviour (ie not a nice guy at all). He is messing with her head, trying to imply that they didn't get together because she didn't realise he was serious. It's all BS.

(Leaving aside your monitoring of her private conversations)
If she had started talking to him after she met you, then you probably shouldn't trust her at all - but I think you said that he was around some months before you came along, in which case he already had his cat and mouse game well underway. She probably genuinely thought that they were friends, and that he just has a flirty nature - but he is not her friend at all. He will, however, have made her feel that she is a great support to him, eg over work issues, so dropping him as a friend will go against a kind nature. Guys like this know exactly what they are doing, it's a very complex form of attention-seeking trolling, since they do not have anything to offer anyone, except BS.

You might be hurt by this whole business, but she has been conned into a fake friendship, and he will not be the least bit bothered if his games have damaged your relationship.

This is classic mess-with-her head stuff. Making out he's a good guy, but getting another dig in anyway.


Many people on WP will understand when I say that I recognise posts by other aspies which I easily could have written myself, there is so much commonality.

The same thing applies to these guys - once you've come across one, you recognise another, because they write/talk as if they all learnt the BS from the same book. I had one in my past, and he excelled at playing the sympathy card, but since then I've learnt quite a lot, especially from other people's experiences of similar things. It's very hard to recognise what's happening until you are out of the situation.

You might find it a strange thing to say, but if she is happy with you, then she probably felt safe continuing to talk to Bruce, in order to support him to find good things for himself. But she really shouldn't have any more contact with him, even if he comes back begging.

Paul, I feel really bad for you because I have been in a similar situation. I used to date a female that needed constant validation and would get into predicaments that would make any boyfriend uncomfortable. She would have flirty conversations with ex-boyfriends, receive dildos from male friends, and ask about their cock length and such.

Instead of feeling like a lover to her, I gradually felt like I was being a parent watching over her actions. In the end I realized that she was getting tired of it, and I was getting too stressed out. She needed a boyfriend that was willing to share her emotions with other men, and I needed a girlfriend that was more emotionally self-sufficient. I'm not sure she would find any man as I described, so it would require change on her part. Change that only she could initiate because of a personal revelation -- an epiphany. These changes usually occur during a great loss; not the type of change that would result from an argument with me.

The sex was great and she would send me sexy pictures often -- we even made a video. The relationship was very physically satisfying, so I was in denial for a bit that the relationship would ever go the distance. It was also my first serious long-term relationship so I'd like to blame it on my naivete.

Anyway, Paul, you're just going to have to stop reading her personal conversations and accept her for who she is. It does not look like she will cheat on you physically. But your relationship happiness will constantly be on a thread if you can not be at ease, waiting for the next disaster to happen. I was unwilling to love my ex with all her issues so I had to get out after 2 years. I read the jealousy article you linked in the other thread and although I found it had good perspectives, it does not apply to your situation or mine. Our jealousy is not unfounded.

CJame and Lady Rain, thank you for your excellent insights.

I think the concept of getting validation by turning on other men is very valid. I mean, the other day she wore 4-inch heels and a push-up Bra to go see the Optometrist. Jesus Christ. Maybe this relationship is ultimately doomed. I don't want to spend the next 30 years in a state of Anxiety.

Paul

Paul, the DearBruce letter sounds good. It's well worded. He sounds a bit like an immature jerk, but I guess he's just hurt that his friend's chosen another guy over him.

I think you should trust your lady from now on though. Let her change her chat password and start trusting her; she's held up her side of the bargain by ditching Brucie, so now it's your turn to show that you appreciate the sacrifice she's made.

As for the clothes and bra... some women like dressing like that. It's not a big deal. It really isn't

Lene, thank you for your very balanced replies. I must say that other than the IM sessions, this relationship has gone quite well, I'm quite happy with my Lady and she has admitted that she appears to have a problem with setting boundaries with men, a problem she intends to work on.

I do appreciate the sacrifice of her giving up Bruce; however with the ambiguity of that relationship, I think it really HAD to end.

I Trust Her, but I'm not sure that I trust her Judgement.

It's nice to know that the clothing doesn't really mean anything, however if she tells me she's going berry-picking and wears that outfit, I'm going to get suspicious...