Hi, new with question, need help, advice, etc

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I do not have Aspergers but suspect my husband does. I'm pushing 60 and he's 65. He would never go to a doctor to find out, not even to rule it out. He doesn't want to hear about it. This leaves me stuck with figuring it out, because life has gotten extremely stressful if I do nothing.

A basic summary: Things have gone oddly wrong in the marriage of 30 years, a gradually downhill slide. I had no idea why. The first 5 years were great. The next 5 a little less, but still good. By ten years he had relocated us every 2 or 3 years, job hopped, home hopped, for the children it meant school hopping.

I'm no doctor, had no idea why. Often he'd yell over nothing, or eventually to become aloof about where he lived. At first I thought he was just being mean and selfish.

Now I feel bad about that, but this all took time to reveal itself, since he seldom goes to a doctor for much of anything. I could not phone our local physician and ask him, because he did not have a steady physician. Around 20 years of marriage I took online tests, coupled with life experiences, figured out he has ADHD.

It made a world of difference to have some idea what was causing him to act out. From there, while he would never take allopathic medication, he has been willing to take natural herbs like green tea [stim] etc.

For a time things seemed to calm down. But recently he had an outburst that went on for a good 45 minutes or more. Even with green tea and tyrosine for ADHD, it only worked a little. Then something happened. A close relative's child was diagnosed with Aspergers, very light case. Learning there's a genetic link, I began wondering if my husband has it. Then started to read the symptoms. Many sound exactly like him!

The difficulty is, ADHD symptoms are very similar to some of Aspergers. I figured out a lot, but one has me stumped. Aspergers is very organized. He is not! He is messy, and I get exhausted trying to pick up after him. If I don't, he just leaves it there, for months or even years if I let it be.

My question, can someone have Aspergers yet be messy? NOT organized? Collect piles of envelopes to write on [to save the planet etc], which he only uses a small amount. Though eventually he will let go of them, that only happens 1 or 2 times year. The rest of the time he keeps them. He has admitted, he does not know where or how to begin.

These are typical ADHD symptoms. But here are what I think are Aspergers symptoms:

His motor functions are not good, he's clumsy and has fallen "up" stairs more times than I can count. Tho has improved with age, yet I read that is common for some with mild autism, to get better as they learn as they get older.

He's quite aloof. Tho comes out of what I jokingly have called his "man cave" or his head, when he feels like it. So he does come out and interact, but he has to be the one in control of that, or we have to be very insistent. However, if we are, he might get irritated.

Often appears to the rest of us who care about him, that he doesn't give a hoot about us - at times. Yet other times he shows affection. Its fine to touch him, he makes eye contact, though seems to have eye sensitivity to what he has called "glare" for 30 years. Always keeping the rooms dark with closed curtains. I always open them, he is behind me in minutes, closing them. It could be a physical eye problem, but he wont ask the eye doc, thinks I'm silly to suggest that.

These reasons, and more as I think of them, are why I am wondering about "mild" autism.

He very much wants friends, and has a few. When they get together, he starts with good social skills, then sometimes, after a while he does not know what to say. There are awkward blank spots in conversation, or he fills them in with topics they would not be interested in, unable to pick up clues they have no interest.

He doesn't have repetitive behaviors like drumming, yet I wondered if there can be psychological ones. For example, he will go on and on about conspiracy theories.

He has good intelligence, tho lost in his head too often. Have to call his name many times to get him out, sometimes not always. [Tho this one can be either ADHD or Aspergers, I have heard.]

When he gets into any subject, he wants to know everything about it, too often not wanting to talk of other things. He asks endless questions that really annoys the kids, tho they are adults now and live in their own homes. Anyway, we can get him to change the subject, until later when he returns to it. We just 'have' to get into it 'with' him or he wont let up.

The questions. I never read anything about either ADHD or Aspergers asking too many questions, and I really do mean too many, but I wonder about this.

He speaks very monotone.

He can say something that is disturbing our kids, and not even take notice of their face getting sad or hurt. He just keeps talking about it.

He does well when at home which is structured by nature, but soon as there's a guest, they can ask for the shirt off his back and he will give his, and mine too. He just can't say no to them in most cases, and can't seem to size people up. He trusts everyone.

He often does whatever he wants, assuming its fine when its risky, not caring or thinking about possible consequences his actions would bring the entire family. Always saying stuff would never happen, and then it did. Next time? Repeat.

While he doesn't use hand gestures regularly, when he gets the slightest bit agitated, he starts flinging his hands. Not sure if this applies or not.

If left to live in squalor, he's perfectly fine with that. This is where it seems to differ, and where I'm confused. He does not line up his pens or envelopes, tho maybe he has a system within the mess. That's a possibility, nonetheless, its not a main thing as he would not complain about you touching his stuff. It simply appears he doesn't care about his living conditions.

If I can get this figured out, to some degree, I may be able to do something, even if its just respond differently, tho more is needed. A lot has been on my shoulders for so long.

If there are any natural medications for this, he may agree to taking those.

Tho first things first. Does anyone know: Can someone have a mild form of Aspergers, yet be disorganized and messy?

Thanks!

Last edited by FlowerPower on 21 Feb 2012, 7:59 pm, edited 2 times in total.

Yes. I live with my parents my room is a mess but I know just about where everthing is in my room. But in the rest of the house I tend to organize every thing that is not someone elses personal proporty.

Thanks. Its a start.

My husband will go around the house to organize even things which are not his, but when I say organize, maybe I should not use the word. Unsure. What he does is, move things where it is "easier" for access, even if its an odd place. Like, instead of putting a single cup in the cupboard, he may put it in the middle of the table, with his theory that it will be easier to 'find' when needed. Not all cups, just one.

Tho he does put numbers of cups away, just randomly slaps them in the cupboard next to plates, on any shelf, etc. This part appears ADHD to me, but so much else appears Aspergers.

I have read a person can have both. Yet, don't understand how they meld together, since sometimes they contradict each other in symptoms.

Sometimes I wonder if his his messiness cancels out having any form of Aspergers.

Tho I think you make a good point, that you know just about where everything is in your room. I was like that as a teenager, but not after becoming an adult, raising kids, taking care of him. lol I have had to do a lot.

Before I present this idea to my kids, that their dad may have mild Aspergers, I want try to find out if someone with mild aspergers can simultaneously be fine with complete 100% messes surrounding them after age 60, with nothing symmetrical or lined up in the least -- all chaos. (If I don't clean it that is.) Yet in other ways still have symptoms specific to Aspergers?

I don't think I've ever heard of a case in which someone with Aspergers started out with 5 years of great marriage.

Because Asperger's is a developmental disability, it means that there are non-verbal communications we just don't get--sort of like how a blind person might not see a sign post and walk right into it, even though it is right in front of him. This is normally apparent very early on in a relationship.

Thank you for replying! I really am trying to figure this out and appreciate any input.

I don't think he has full blown Aspergers, I think he has it very mild. That would make a big difference. And often he does not get it. He says hurtful things and no idea he just hurt my feelings, or the kids feelings.

Since my husband is very good at hiding his feelings, I can't say for sure the first 5 years were great for him. Probably they were good years for him. Maybe not great. I remember him walking in the house scowling too often. But over nothing, or small things. It was not usually about me, but his job, etc. Tho sometimes me.

He had a lot going on, always active, yet it was as if he was tripping over his own 2 feet. Too often running in and out of the house, but took forever to achieve his goal.

It was the years after that though, that became worse. He'd get irritated over little things. I sure hope he does not have aspergers of any type, its just that, if he did not live so chaotically, then many other symptoms fit him - quite well. Monotone voice, physically clumsy, lives in his head and loves it, doesn't sufficiently pick up on social clues, etc.

Guess figuring this out is a work in progress. I very much appreciated the feedback. Thank you.

Quick question. Why care if he has Asperger"s you still love him right? He will still be the same guy wheather or not he has Asperger's right. Asperger's is just a name for a set of symptoms a person can have.

Good question. Allow me to clarify.

I care if he has aspgers because I dont want to end up in divorce court, only later to find out he was reacting, too often, the ways he did to me and the kids, because of a disease that once recognized, could be treated.

I care if he has aspergers because I want to understand him, want to know how to help him avoid huge blow outs over mole hills.

I care if he has aspergers because I dont like ignorance. If I know, then I can see if there is anything specifically related to it which I can pitch in with, like special diets, herbs, etc.

Possibly other reasons, just thought of: I care if he has aspergers so I can stay sane, that is, if I am.

EDITED: I care if he has aspergers because I'd like to have a non-chaotic life. Though its not constant chaos, and we have long periods of peace, but suddenly "out of the blue," all heck will break loose. Its unpredictability, and its mere existence, makes me nervous. It has to stop. I need to find out its cause, or one of them.

Been here 30 years, not like I'm quick to leave just because someone has a disease, in a car accident, or anything else. But I do have a right to gain peace. I need to be educated on the medical aspects of Aspergers, as this is new to me.

With rereading, it appeared to me you were making two points. I'll answer this one too, then back to medical.

I was not wondering if he has aspergers right, or if he had aspergers wrong. That thought never crossed my mind. What I am trying to figure out if he has Aspergers at all.

Too early in this for me to get into the psychology of right vs wrong, or normal vs what's popularly considered not normal. I just need medical information.

Its very confusing to me, with adhd mixed in, to figure out if he is comorbid having any aspergers, when he has a trait so extremely not fitting aspergers.

There must be an answer to this, and I will patiently wait until the right person comes along and says something like "Hey, I am messy, do not keep things in order, yet also diagnosed aspergers." Another possibility: "I am a medical professional and can tell you this does occur, sufficiently." Possibly a caretaker might have knowledge to offer. Etc.

It needs to be clear in my mind, what is going on with his health.



Of which I am still in the process of learning what those symptoms are, or how they play out when they mix in with ADHD.

Thanks for trying.

Last edited by FlowerPower on 22 Feb 2012, 8:43 am, edited 1 time in total.

in my completely inexpert opinion he sounds like he has asperger's syndrome.

it is possible for an aspie to be disorganised. some aspies are partially-organised too, in that they will carefully file and arrange their collections or something, then leave everything else topsy-turvy.

i like to have stuff organised but my "executive function" doesn't allow me to arrange stuff properly so it gets neglected. sometimes i know i can't neaten or clean as well as i should so i just leave it altogether. or i will do something pointless like spending 3 hours super-organising the wrapping paper and gift tags yet will leave the rest of the room in a mess.

i suspect that early in your marriage your husband was simply functioning at a higher level. some aspies become less impaired with age, and others become more so. the newness of being married, the freshness of the jobs, the energy of youth, etc - all of that could haeve masked his difficulties. some aspies get kinda worn down with time. i definitely declined in my 30s in some ways and i am not improving as i get into my 40s.

Yes, as hyper pointed out aspies can be messy.

For me its not due to time constraints or general laziness. But in my mind I know where every stain, every mark, every cleanup, and every other task is in the house. But I can't seem to figure out where to start, I'm just overwhelmed and lacking the stability to start.... Ah, and yes... I fall up stairs but never down. I often upset people without realizing, and do most of what your husband does (my one cup is always on the counter).

But these are all just common traits which are reminiscent of a connection to a horoscope really.

Thank you for your opinion, which I find to be more expert than you may know. (I have little experience, and while some seems clear, some seems confusing. But I will learn.)



This is what I've been wondering. Its what's been driving me up a wall, and a relief to hear. I have read many articles, and not one said this. Yet here I am living with a person who appears to have a majority of aspie symptoms, but has no interest in being organized. That was always a big point in the articles I read, that aspies are very organized. This threw me.



Its possible he does this. He always has many papers lying all around, messy. But there will be a small pile or two, with notes on them, organized. Yet most anyone might do this, so its been hard for me to figure out. With thought, I suppose they would not collect so many papers, but that could be mild OCD, or the inability to get started cleaning more likely. ADHD.



This is making more sense, now that I know others are going thru it too.



This makes sense.



More and more is making sense now.



Interesting. It appears in some ways he has improved, but in others, declined. Although neither of us knew he needed a special diet or something else to help. Now that I do, I will try to see what I can cook up in my kitchen. He will never go to a doctor for diagnosis, and this bothers me, because what if I am wrong about something? Yet we can't keep living this way.

He has some serious boundary issues. Maybe there is a more medical word for it, I wish I knew what word that would be. But he trusts everyone, lets odd people visit, and they have caused our entire family and marriage some grave problems at times.

There have been other times he brought over wonderful persons. So its not always bad, its just that he can't "size up" people, then lets anyone come over. The things they have done, or tried to get away with, well you don't want to know. Simply I have been left as the one who must size up everyone, although he does not want me to do that. He wants me to pretend they are all perfectly fine.

Its not like I want this job, I don't. I get so nervous. Yet if I don't do it, he will let all kinds of strangers he barely knows but maybe has friended online, or met a few times for a few minutes, and so on, into our home. Its all up to luck.

This is one of our biggest arguments, that I don't feel safe when he does this, but he says he has faith in humanity and the goodness of people in general. He wants all these friends. Its not like he doesn't have friends, but he wants everyone as friend.

I wasn't going to get into all this, but now its out there. Felt I had to, because it has in the past, brought some danger around my children when they were younger, and he would either go into denial over what was going on, or make some excuse, but especially he never sees the danger "ahead of time" to prevent it. Even when everyone around him won't let that person into their home, he does.

This may be slightly different, but he can't say no to them either. (He can say it to me just fine. lol Its like he has to impress them, make the world his friend.)

Anyway, if I point out something negative to be wary of, he always says something like "They would never do that!" Then 80 percent of the time, they do.

Very much need information about boundary issues, or whatever is going on medically, and if there is diet or medication (natural as that's all he'd take) to help his brain connect and see the dots, or any other suggestions.

Last edited by FlowerPower on 22 Feb 2012, 8:15 am, edited 1 time in total.

It is a relief to read more than one say this. His adhd factor mixed in, has completely thrown me off. Not the hyperactivity or other adhd traits, but the utterly completely messiness that he has no interest in getting orderly about. Thirty years, I should know that much. lol When young I could pick up behind him, but with age am running out of energy, and he has not improved to pick up one thing. CD's and DVDs all over the floor, right next to piles of paper and junk mail. Even boxes of stuff from when we moved in here, which was at least 10 years ago! Thinking its adhd, I could not see aspie, yet so much else appears aspie!



Do you mind if I ask, are you adhd too, or just aspie?



I'll agree with that.

But I have to live with those traits/him. I need relief.

We have some good things going for us, its just this one is big and has been left in the dark so long. Never could figure out what to do about it. Not sure I have now either, but it opens a door, gives hope, once I'm more aware of what's going on. Thank you!

I was diagnosed adhd growing up but later on also asperger's. I have lots of problems concentrating, and I usually fold origami cranes if I'm in a class or sitting. Just something else to challenge my mind or I can't slow down to a level where I can understand a instructor without my mind wandering.

For reference my dad is similar to me but is a great socializer/but depressing to be around... (he's very odd). My step-mother put him on prozac which made him more hospitable, but he had the reaction your husband most likely did. "Crazy pills", so she put him on St. Johns Wart (herb) for a while and noticed improvements. He's depressing to people around him, has coordination issues, etc... Medication makes him less down on himself/others/the world, and less likely to start flying off the handle (anger and aggression).

But understanding myself was nice, because it helps me understand others/stress less about things I do which sour relationships. I've become a better person - but who I am has pretty much stayed the same.

Thanks Nim! My husband could never sit still long enough to fold orgami, but I sure have. Its fun. I wish I had more time for it though.



My husband is a little odd, tho think at first I've been having trouble admitting it. But I need to see if I am going to do anything beneficial. I suspect others think he'd odd, but he seems to pass for 'norm' but odd.



Two of my husbands relatives went on this for a while, and it made me wonder if it would help him too. But he would have none of it.



Yup, if I were to slightly suggest it, he'd say that, and a whole lot more.



Great idea. One I've been reconsidering. My husband tried for a while, liked it, but soon quit. Mostly just forgot to take them. Also didn't want to spend the extra cash on something he was not sure he needed. He should have asked me, or others around him, if he needed it. That was about 4 or 5 years ago.



Sounds very familiar. A year ago I read 5 htp was good for ADD and insomia. Since he's been having insomnia he was willing to take it. (He'd never take it for ADHD.) It worked! Not only for sleep but also he was a little nicer, a bit more tolerant, but it didn't work as much as needed. Still, I may reconsider getting this again for him, as its something he will do.



That is wonderful to hear! I believe so much that people can get better, as long as we have some understanding of what was going on. Then life and friends, all of it, can be even nicer.

Going to take a risk here and ask a pushing question in my mind.

I was wondering if anyone who uses herbs, has ever tried something called snake root for aspergers? Just read about it recently. There is a prescription drug made from it that has been used with good results for aspergers. Read that on wikipedia and other sites too. I dont want the drug form, just the basic info is good to know. Its an anti-psychotic that happens, for whatever reason, to work exceptionally well for aspergers. I have no interest in antipsychotic drugs. But the herb form is totally different, and I wonder if any, those who are not against, or afraid, etc, of herbs, have any experience with snake root, also called Rauvolfia serpentina?

Never really heard of snake root. But I was taking 5 htp/st johns/b12, for a while... didn't notice a real difference.

Looking into the snake root tho.

Hi Nim,

I just read more on the snake root and now feel it may not be for my husband. It may be for those who are 100 % aspie, or not comorbid, but he has trouble with his uptake of serotonin. And here is what I read about this herb: "Atypical antipsychotic agents, which block postsynaptic dopamine and serotonin receptors" Therefore, darn, its not for us. BUT it may be for others.

I don't know much about B12. Something I will look into. I have read B6 is very helpful for aspie. By the way, I may sound like a know-it-all, and I am not. I am intensely learning most of this stuff in the past 3 days! I have to, I want peace around here. Anyway that means I can be wrong and am still in the 'research' phase. I read here too for that same purpose I suppose. Thank you all for helping me!

Here is what I read about B6, only read it 2 days ago:

"Vitamin B6 has a remarkable record of providing positive results in treating autistic children. A German investigator, V. E. Bonisch, reported in 1968 that 12 of 16 autistic children had shown considerable behavioral improvement when given high dosage levels (100 mg to 600 mg per day) of vitamin B6. Three of Bonischs patients spoke for the first time after vitamin B6 was administered in this open clinical trial."

I have no experience with B6 yet.

Also read, somewhere, the herb Bacopa (not sure if that's the right spelling) grows brain cells or neurons or something. I still have to get the details on that. Anyway, it may not be specific to aspergers but can't hurt, might help. Will look into that further.

Always open to suggestions, both herbal and how to deal with someone with no boundaries, thinking he is being deprived of fun and friends, when in reality he's putting us in harms way. I have told him no problem meeting his friends at the park, at the mall, anyplace else, but he never seems open to those ideas. Just wants to bring them home. Sometimes I feel like I am living with a teenager. Other times he is a responsible adult. Its kinda of funny, but ultimately I need more of the adult.