Is behaviour therapy possible for someone like me?
My therapist (who specialises in behaviour therapy) saw me for four sessions, diagnosed me with aspergers and said that there was no point in me having therapy because I had no plans to change and so she didn't know what to do with me. So that was that. However she said that if I had reason to I could contact her for another session.
So now I am wondering whether there is anything to be gained from behaviour therapy. Maybe I should do it after all. My main doubt about it is that I am 58 years old and there isn't much to be gained in making huge changes to my way of being at this age. It's not as if I am of an age to be able to start a family or develop a huge social network or a great new career, whereas the effort to become more socially competent would be quite painful I think.
I do have a girlfriend, though we don't spend much time together (she accomodates me in that respect). I work very part-time and spend as much time as possible alone with my narrow repetitive interest (learning languages for no reason). I have no friends whatsoever and can't deal with group situations at all (I just sit there like an idiot after the initial pleasantries and have nothing at all to say the whole time despite a high IQ). Family gatherings are a problem and my girlfriend's grandson (aged nearly 4) won't say hello or goodbye to me because I am different to the others and can't expansively connect with him in the way normal people do with children.
Somehow I feel that behaviour therapy would involve turning oneself inside out and forcing oneself to do things which normal people do naturally but which one feels uncomfortable doing and so avoids. I don't know. Maybe I'm being too pessimistic. What do you think and have you had experience of behaviour therapy? Has it helped you? Is it just an attempt to become someone one isn't and to act a role? How can it improve one's quality of life?
You're basically right about behavioral therapy. The basic definition of behavioral therapy is "learning to act more normal."
Some of it doesn't hold up to the old cost-benefit analysis; some of it does. What is and isn't a lot of trouble to go to (and what is and isn't worth the trouble) is, for now, basically up to the individual to decide.
One way or the other, it's been my experience that there's no such thing as "too old to learn new tricks." Once you quit learning, you're pretty much dead. IMO.
Some small changes and new skills might open up a few doors-- a slightly expanded social life, the ability to make the connections you want or feel you should make. Trick is finding a therapist who's going to help you develop the skills YOU want to have for the changes YOU want to see in your life (as opposed to the changes THEY think are necessary for the life THEY think you should be living).
Or not.
_________________
"Alas, our dried voices when we whisper together are quiet and meaningless, as wind in dry grass, or rats' feet over broken glass in our dry cellar." --TS Eliot, "The Hollow Men"
In the years before I was diagnosed with AS on a number of occasions my GP sent me for therapy because of problems I had with depression and anxiety - mainly in the areas of work and social life.
I was a trained secretary and changing jobs was no problem but wherever I worked was always a stress to me. Each morning I felt I couldn't face the coming day and I lived for the evenings, weekends and holidays. I was told that what I needed was a job that really stretched me and held my interest and attention. That sounded good but the reality was that work like this - where hours were uncertain and the pressure could be great - only made my problem worse. I learned by trial and error that what was best for me was a office where the work was routine, the hours regular and the days held no surprises.
The same with social problems. The therapist encouraged me to join local organisations - even an amateur theatre company! - but after a month or two I realised that I dreaded the evenings when I had to go out and mix with people - especially after a day at the office.
Although the various therapists never said anything I think they felt they had been wasting their time with me. As I said, this was before AS had become recognised in adults so may be the OP will find behavioural therapy more effective now. What I DO feel would have been helpful, when I was younger, was learning social skills - something which in my case I again learned by trial and error.
I was a trained secretary and changing jobs was no problem but wherever I worked was always a stress to me. Each morning I felt I couldn't face the coming day and I lived for the evenings, weekends and holidays. I was told that what I needed was a job that really stretched me and held my interest and attention. That sounded good but the reality was that work like this - where hours were uncertain and the pressure could be great - only made my problem worse. I learned by trial and error that what was best for me was a office where the work was routine, the hours regular and the days held no surprises.
The same with social problems. The therapist encouraged me to join local organisations - even an amateur theatre company! - but after a month or two I realised that I dreaded the evenings when I had to go out and mix with people - especially after a day at the office.
Although the various therapists never said anything I think they felt they had been wasting their time with me. As I said, this was before AS had become recognised in adults so may be the OP will find behavioural therapy more effective now. What I DO feel would have been helpful, when I was younger, was learning social skills - something which in my case I again learned by trial and error.
Your reactions to work and social life sound exactly the same as mine. When I had a full-time job in an office years ago I couldn't face seeing anyone at all in the evenings and only to a limited degree at the weekends. Even though the job just involved working on a computer with no stress. At the same time I felt lonely because I didn't have the friends that I didn't have due to work taking too much out of me (not the work itself, but just being in an office with other people all day). If a therapist had told me I needed to get out and meet people more it would have been impossible to put into practice. In the days when I used to (briefly) work full-time and before I found out about AS I felt completely different to everyone else in this respect and completely misunderstood as regards these issues. I don't think an NT therapist can intuitively grasp what it is like for us trying to adapt to the way daily life is structured and how it feels to be unable to socialise on top of work. Years ago when I last had a therapist he thought I must be short on self-confidence and didn't value myself enough as a person. He also assumed that that was the reason I spent so much time obsessing on my repetitive special interest, so that all I needed to do was to realise I was a valuable person and go out and mix. He was completely wrong in his interpretation of my problems. It seems to me that there is no point in me having therapy from someone who doesn't understand AS because they won't even see what the challenges are.
I am in my early 50s, and was taken to many psych docs and therapists as a child and teen. Back then Autism spectrum disorders were not recognized. Instead, we were diagnosed with emotional/behavior problems, and as discipline problems. I really hated the sessions and never warmed up to the people trying to "fix" me. It was abundantly clear to even my child self that nobody liked me the way I was, so they were trying to make a new me that they would like better. Naturally, I resisted being "changed" into something else. I knew I wasn't perfect, but neither is anyone else, yet most other people aren't forced to be "changed" because of it. Because of my social issues, because I can't stand being around people who are uncomfortable around someone different, and because I refuse their attempts to make me conform to the NT herd pattern, I ended up turning into an introverted hermit. I am okay with that, as being with others too much is very unpleasant to me. Now that I am middle aged, I don't see any benefit to behavior therapy in my particular case, as I have no interest in becoming more social.
Whether you go through with it or not is up to your needs and desires in this matter. If you do have areas you wish to change, then it may be a good idea to work on those, but I do agree with other posters, that you should work with a therapist who will be willing to work on just those areas, and not try to force you into a complete make over. I don't see complete make over's being possible for us, but I do know we can temporarily modify some of our behaviors at times. I think what you are looking for is help in doing that with some of your problem areas. Perhaps therapy can help you with that.
P.S. Like you, I am fond of languages, but only took German in high school decades ago. I still can speak a little of it. I also picked up a few phrases from other languages over the years, and may take language courses in the future. However, I'd like to point out that there is a lot of irony in non social persons like us learning to speak foreign languages. Who are we going to talk to?
_________________
If a man does not keep pace with his companions, perhaps it is because he hears a different drummer.
Let him step to the music which he hears, however measured, or far away.--Henry David Thoreau
I suddenly got an idea, instead of conforming to the norm, why don't we just get a doctors note saying; "Sorry, the patient can't attend your wedding[insert other social events here] due to his disorder, please don't hold this against him in any way."
Wouldn't that be awesome?
_________________
AQ: 42/50 || SQ: 32/80 || IQ(RPM): 138 || IRI-empathytest(PT/EC/FS/PD): 10(-7)/16(-3)/19(+3)/19(+10) || Alexithymia: 148/185 || Aspie-quiz: AS 133/200, NT 56/200
Wouldn't that be awesome?

Something like that is sorely needed, or at least some kind of recognition at least that we don't CHOOSE to be unable to do these things.
Whether you go through with it or not is up to your needs and desires in this matter. If you do have areas you wish to change, then it may be a good idea to work on those, but I do agree with other posters, that you should work with a therapist who will be willing to work on just those areas, and not try to force you into a complete make over. I don't see complete make over's being possible for us, but I do know we can temporarily modify some of our behaviors at times. I think what you are looking for is help in doing that with some of your problem areas. Perhaps therapy can help you with that.
P.S. Like you, I am fond of languages, but only took German in high school decades ago. I still can speak a little of it. I also picked up a few phrases from other languages over the years, and may take language courses in the future. However, I'd like to point out that there is a lot of irony in non social persons like us learning to speak foreign languages. Who are we going to talk to?

I think the therapist was kind of shocked and disgusted that I just wanted to come to terms with how life had turned out for me without doing anything to become more social. I'm not very good at telling what people think of me but I got the feeling she wanted to get rid of me. She kept finding reasons why I might want to stop seeing her for therapy although I had only expressed my wish to continue and not to stop. There is probably something unappealing about a person who just spends his time engaging in repetitive behaviours on his own without engaging with others and who has given up on the idea of adjusting to society's expectations. Especially here in Germany where everybody is expected to be a well-adjusted contributor to society. So I think she decided I should be left to my fate, or something like that. But I would have liked more time to look at where I am and have been and how I got there rather than plunging into a behaviour modification program. It wasn't until last year that I realised that I was probably on the spectrum and began to look at my life from that perspective. Probably if I had realised this at 20 years old the motivation would have been there to develop in a more social direction rather than focussing on reading endless texts on my own to develop skills I can't use for anything (as you say, it's ironic for a non-social person to spend all his time learning languages). However, now it just seems that the costs of trying to be more normal are greater than any possible benefits. I don't think it would work anyway.
If she's a behavior therapist, and you are not looking for any behavior therapy, then she is not the person to whom you need to be speaking. You need a general psychologist, preferably one who specializes in AS, but that's not necessary for what you're seeking. Someone who is good with ADHD, bi-polar, or PTSD would probably also do well, because they work with a lot of people that are also coming to terms with their own histories in light of new information. Be sure that you state that that's what you are looking for and query them to find out if they will be a good fit for you.
I don't think she's a very good therapist in general if she wasn't able to at least provide you with suggestions for referrals to other psychologists.
If she's a behavior therapist, and you are not looking for any behavior therapy, then she is not the person to whom you need to be speaking. You need a general psychologist, preferably one who specializes in AS, but that's not necessary for what you're seeking. Someone who is good with ADHD, bi-polar, or PTSD would probably also do well, because they work with a lot of people that are also coming to terms with their own histories in light of new information. Be sure that you state that that's what you are looking for and query them to find out if they will be a good fit for you.
I don't think she's a very good therapist in general if she wasn't able to at least provide you with suggestions for referrals to other psychologists.
She did mention that there were also depth or analytical psychologists, but I am against the idea of that because in the past (30 years ago) I had a therapist like that and he was always trying to find explanations for my behaviour, life and way of being in terms of how I felt about my parents and about myself and things like that, whereas looking back since getting the AS diagnosis I can see that he was on the wrong track and that the root of my problems in life at that time was my aspieness. I don't want to have to spend my time convincing an analytical therapist that my problems don't stem from bad parenting. On the other hand the kind of therapist you suggest would be great but I don't think the health insurance would pay for it. Luckily my (only theoretically non-platonic) girlfriend of ten years, who is also my one and only social contact (like in Max and Mary) has a qualification in psychological counselling and is pretty good about talking about aspergers with me so maybe I can get by without a therapist. She's normally willing to listen to the kind of thing I would say to a therapist and actually comes up with better responses

I recommend cognitive therapy if you wished to change a specific behavior or develope an improved set of social skills etc. For me, also, a certified social worker helped much more than a psych.
As others have noted, it may take time for you to assimilate the diagnoses and internalize it. I think there is nothing wrong with you for wishing to come to terms with it and who you are.
Kjas
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Joined: 26 Feb 2012
Age: 35
Gender: Female
Posts: 6,059
Location: the place I'm from doesn't exist anymore
If you choose to see a psychologist, you must see one who specializes in AS.
If you go to someone who does not specialize in AS, you will find the entire experience immensely uncomfortable and will also make little to no headway because they will not know how to deal with you or how to connect and relate to you. It will be the equivalent of banging your head against a brick wall.
If you see a normal therapist, no matter that you have been diagnosed with AS, they will still treat you like you simply don't want to do these things, rather than you don't know how to or are not capable of it.
Even if it is for your own peace of mind and to come to terms with your past and your diagnosis, please see someone who specializes in AS.
_________________
Diagnostic Tools and Resources for Women with AS: http://www.wrongplanet.net/postt211004.html
If you go to someone who does not specialize in AS, you will find the entire experience immensely uncomfortable and will also make little to no headway because they will not know how to deal with you or how to connect and relate to you. It will be the equivalent of banging your head against a brick wall.
If you see a normal therapist, no matter that you have been diagnosed with AS, they will still treat you like you simply don't want to do these things, rather than you don't know how to or are not capable of it.
Even if it is for your own peace of mind and to come to terms with your past and your diagnosis, please see someone who specializes in AS.
There is apparently no-one in the city who specialises in AS and the health insurance does not pay for pervasive developmental disorders (or personality disorders either, for that matter). I suppose because these things can't be cured. The basic premise behind therapy seems to be that you are committed to changing yourself as a result of the therapy, whereas just coming to terms with being different doesn't seem to count as a worthwhile thing. The idea seems to be one of getting people back to functioning normally as soon as possible. There probably are good therapists somewhere who would be willing to work with me in an accepting way but I don't think I would get funding for that. So I think therapy is out.
Check out therapists who practice Cognitive Therapy (CT) or Cognitive Behavioral Therapy (CBT), and who have clients who are on the autistic spectrum. Read up on CBT yourself. You can obtain books on this in many different languages! Hardy-har-har! I wish I was motivated and able to learn many different languages like you.
Best of luck always.
Pardon my joke. I guess the ugly American in me floated to the top.
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