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Hi,

I'm new, I'm 30 and I just found out I have this crap. I know there are benefits to it, but I don't see how I can enjoy them until I get rid of the negatives; almost entirely related to social feedback and being self-assured. It's been a looooong time of thinking I'm just weak in some core way that overshadows all other talents and positive traits I do have, and I see it as the biggest obstacle to persevering in a life I see as largely wasted to this point (on paper, it seems I've kicked ass; experientially, I just don't feel like I have).

I wasted a lot of time in my teens on message boards and I'm sort of wary of doing it again so I don't mean it if I seem curt (I'm also pretty much furious at the idea of having a permanent social "glass ceiling"; pretty much seeing confirmation that yes, in fact I AM a "social minority").

Anyway, as far as I can see it, I have two options:

-I can spend my time trying to get the social fluency that I would trash the entire rest of my life for if it were possible....
-Or I can instead use that effort trying to make "peace" with it and accept social impotence.

Both appear impossible. If my thinking is inflexible... I'll take a third option.

I'd say try to find a balance between the two. Come to peace with what limitations you have, but keep challenging yourself to improve socially. I don't think anyone truly gets rid of the negatives that come with having an ASD, but a lot of people have found coping methods or workarounds for some. Does it suck? Absolutely. Instead of cradling that resentment though, you just have to brush yourself off and keep moving. It's very likely that the positive social feedback you seem to be craving is going to be sparse at times, so you have to find that confidence in yourself. This is a very good place to start.

I sometimes get down about how i am but i have adapted to find the best way for the condition and for me.
If you actually look at social interaction and what people get out if it, you may find that your not missing out on much if you can go out and have quality time with someone. It all depends on your ability or strength of condition with social interactions.
I prefer to organise a chat at a coffee shop with a friend. It is always nice as we talk about meaningful things (nt to non nt). Growing up i used to be in groups but i used to think why as i didnt like most of the banter and stupid things like lets all pick on one person to make the others laugh or discuss how many pints we could drink, who has the most girls and so on.....the time i get down the most is when my body is tired. I can go a whole week just working and sleeping, basically not doing the things i enjoy. But if i listen to my body i can reboot and get back on track. As you say there only 2 choices. I chose the second option as i believe the first isn't worth it. Your true friends will understand and have really nice conversations with you. Don't think you're missing out on the banter as yes you can try to do that but it's pointless (to me anyway). Hope you find inner peace soon.

Morph

Sounds good to me.

As I described to my closest confidant though... I believe I started not even knowing about confidence. As I got older and realized I wasn't going to get much comfort from peer interactions, "social confidence" has come to dominate my thoughts. I feel guilt for those times I resent my loved ones for being able to switch on "labrador retriever" mode because I feel left behind. Like a zombie resentful of the living; both wanting and coveting. It's not good.

I think you're right and I want nothing more than to 'believe in myself'. Where do you find that?? The more I look, the more I worry that I'm further entrenching negative beliefs. Should I fake confidence until it's a habit the way I fake wanting a job when I drop off ten resumes in a day? I could do that but I would probably crash (I become viciously anti-social as a result of trying to become pro-social).

How do you achieve that "self-certainty" that even the dumbest of the "others" seem to possess? Lock yourself away and master those talents that mean so much to aspies (the world below be damned)? Spend even more time tweaking those masks and acting skills (possible waste of time)? How about CBT? Will a stable career and future stop these self-doubts (for others, they slow them down; for me/us they make me want to jump into a black hole)?

Who here can claim to have a night and day transition? Am I just as shallow as a high school social-ladder climbing cheerleader for even wanting the damn thing (confidence)? Will I stop putting things in quotes and parentheses (not likely)?

I am convinced that there's some task I can do that would remove this. I don't care how difficult, if I could be sure it would work. The self-help to END any self-help.

I found it knowing I can be completely alone, and still be okay. I moved to a place where I had no family and no friends, and started fresh. I learned I can survive without approval, and if I do fall on my face I can pick myself back up (no one really pays attention anyway). I guess it was an all out test for myself of what I could be capable of even with a disability, and I made it okay.
I don't know if this could help or apply to you at all, but this gave me some peace. I learned I could manage my own life, and even excel in my own way so I didn't have to grasp at any/all possibilities of support or approval like a lifesaver. I just said screw it and learned to swim. I still feel resentful on occasion, and awkward or down on myself, but I understand it's just part of who I am and try not to fret over it.

I really don't want you to waste your time. Your happiness shouldn't be centered around "social fluency". While trying your best in anything is not a bad thing, you shouldn't sacrifice other things for it.

My own experience is that I wasted so much time wondering why I never fitted in anywhere because I didn't know about AS. If I had known it, I would've happily given that up and used my time and energy for something more useful. Well that's what I'm planning to do from now on.

Although my experience doesn't necessarily apply to you, I would like you to remember not to be carried away by your effort for social happiness. There are other things that can make you happy. If you are not socially very successful, that still doesn't mean that you are worse than other people. Your self-worth doesn't need to depend on how other people see you.

J1l exactly,, i spend 40 years trying to fit in a world ill never fit into,, now that I know I have aspergers,, its like being let out of prison,,, it is OKAY for me NOT to be a social whiz,,,it is okay for me to enjoy being alone,,Yes ill continue to work on my social skills but it is NOT now a determination of my self worth,,I can relax for the first time in my life,, I am adapting MY life to My aspergers,, I am much happier and calmer now that Ive stopped barking up wrong trees,,, stressing my self out for trying to be something Im not.. It is nice just to be myself.. even if that self isnt part of the NT world.

I'm pretty sure I can't really connect with that though. I used to come home from high school and do my thing and I made a lot (of music) as a result. I definitely had my "special interest" and my solitude fortified it and now I've become very good at it.

But the cost is having to look back on this past self and think "MILHOUSE !" I would trade any talent I can attribute to asperger to have been.... not "normal" that doesn't mean anything... but that kind of cocksure, self-certain way teens naturally are. I see myself getting LESS confident and LESS self-contained as time goes on.

So, you mention being happy in solitude... by now that solitude that used to mean "work on a project!" has become a reminder of time spent basically training myself to be weak. So even when I DO have time to play guitar for 6 hours straight or something, I don't even enjoy it.

Do you see where I'm at? I'm trying to rip open my psyche and leave nowhere to hide for my problems and shortcomings. I certainly found no satisfaction in my social role, but now I don't know if I even find satisfaction in my talents or solitude.

Is this making sense?? It's not just about "popularity" or some shallow thing.... that's just another symptom of the deeper problem that is, where is my goddamn certainty and assuredness???? Without it I can't enjoy company... or spring out of bed... or be content with the things I AM good at...

I feel I have a piece missing that sets me on "low" much of the time despite all the drive I clearly have, and reveals to even total strangers that "something's off..." I don't see confidence anywhere on the horizon, and seeing it in others makes me so resentful. I can't be glad for the success of others, I don't enjoy hearing people's "crrrrrazy" stories from when they were young, I feel a constant need to punish others, and basically it's as good as erasing any good trait I do have.

I'm convinced I can't surmount a single f*****g problem in my life until I learn what the HELL confidence is. Since learning about this, I've felt even MORE in a mental prison. When will this knowledge "empower me" to "accept myself" or some crap?

Hi again

Just so you know you're not alone. I'm a singer songwriter and DJ as well. I'm pretty good at both. I'm self taught in both and have had lots of nice comments when i did play out ( just around my local village). Problem is, i could never find the courage to venture outside of my little bubble. Am I happy? Yes i'm happy but everytime i watch someone playing in concert i feel down as i know i have the technical ability but not mentally.
There are famous people with asd conditions that are famous, sometimes you can do the things you want too but just have to respect how to deal with the anxiety before a gig (everyone gets nervous). I failed and i know how you feel by playing hours and not really liking the fact that its only you who can hear.
Try not to let aggression take control as that wont resolve the issue. Why not try to find a musician with an asd condition or speak with a specialist about the things you want to achieve but feel that mentally you cannot believe you can do. I failed as i gave up. Trust me when i say use the anger in finding results. My confidence has not got better.
What kind of guitar do you play? As i said im a singer songwriter (acoustic) although i love electric players like joe satriani and david gilmour

Hi again

Just so you know you're not alone. I'm a singer songwriter and DJ as well. I'm pretty good at both. I'm self taught in both and have had lots of nice comments when i did play out ( just around my local village). Problem is, i could never find the courage to venture outside of my little bubble. Am I happy? Yes i'm happy but everytime i watch someone playing in concert i feel down as i know i have the technical ability but not mentally.
There are famous people with asd conditions that are famous, sometimes you can do the things you want too but just have to respect how to deal with the anxiety before a gig (everyone gets nervous). I failed and i know how you feel by playing hours and not really liking the fact that its only you who can hear.
Try not to let aggression take control as that wont resolve the issue. Why not try to find a musician with an asd condition or speak with a specialist about the things you want to achieve but feel that mentally you cannot believe you can do. I failed as i gave up. Trust me when i say use the anger in finding results. My confidence has not got better.
What kind of guitar do you play? As i said im a singer songwriter (acoustic) although i love electric players like joe satriani and david gilmour

I mean famous people that are musicians

I would trade any talent I can attribute to asperger to have been.... not "normal" that doesn't mean anything... but that kind of cocksure, self-certain way teens naturally are. I see myself getting LESS confident and LESS self-contained as time goes on.

Teenagers grow out of this when they reach some maturity. They realize they don't have all the answers after all, and their experiences may not be as unique as they might have assumed. This could just be a period of growth for you, which means you could find more of that self containment, or confidence down the road.

So, you mention being happy in solitude... by now that solitude that used to mean "work on a project!" has become a reminder of time spent basically training myself to be weak.

How does solitude lead to weakness? Do you think trying to eradicate any and all social struggles you have is strength? Are you sure it's not denial?

Do you see where I'm at? I'm trying to rip open my psyche and leave nowhere to hide for my problems and shortcomings.

Bravo, but you aren't going to be able to fix them all, no matter how many books you read. As for lashing out at people, that's just vulnerability or even feeling terrorized about people getting close to you. That gives them the ablility to hurt you, to judge you, or realize you're not perfect...the horrors! Also, some jealousy which is understandable.
Don't worry about chasing down confidence, or even appearing so to everyone else. Keep trying to pinpoint what exactly is sapping it instead, imho.

Thanks for the responses.

Morph, I have a Fender Strat and an Ovation Applause. I've been getting some traction lately with it too; a little side money, some experience teaching students... not quite a career yet (now THAT would solve some relationship problems) but I'm proud of that much. The weirdest thing of my particular ASD is that I have had brief windows where I'm not wearing a "mask" but feel genuinely socially competent, so I can honestly claim to know the difference and "know what I'm missing". So, my therapist who diagnosed me was asking what times I feel least socially incapable, and I said "when I'm playing guitar for a crowd." So I know I need to do more of that.

Mr Major, I really hope that's true about this being a period of growth... I've never shied away from growing pains (to the extent that I sometimes go looking for "hardening experiences" and that's not been so fruitful; I know they need to be "natural", but it's too damn slow for me and I have a constant urge to play catch up).

As for the solutide = weakness thing... I equate the way I spent my youth with the way I turned out. Seems straightforward so far, right? Realize I'm talking only for myself not passing judgement btw... in fact in my endless well of envy, I've found myself wishing I were "more ASD in this or that way" and one way is to have said "f**k it" to the world a little better, accept my nature, lock away with my tasks and admit I feel better alone a lot of the time.

So, for me, my solitude is spent trying to master those inabilities with the real world and other people that make me gravitate to loneliness. Being alone by choice doesn't recharge me, it gives me more anxiety. I hope that explains it.

Sorry if I appear to be/actually am lashing out. Just let me thrash around a bit, I haven't felt this dejection and resentment since grade school....

What do you suggest as far as pinpointing what exactly is sapping my confidence?

So it's more a matter of a lonely extrovert, vs what you're focusing on when alone that is causing you this anxiety? I wouldn't equate being more introverted with being more "ASD". To paraphrase you, you're wrestling with the fact that everyone else around you can socialize so easily<perhaps even taking it for granted>, while it's such an uphill battle for you. Along with the resentment and jealousy that stems from this. The only thing I can think of is just to keep thrashing it out, until you find something that works for you. Don't let yourself dwell on your anger too much. Keep reaching out, and I do hope you find what you're looking for. Maybe you just haven't found the right group of people yet.