understanding the NT mind

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I'm going to preface this by saying that I've spent a lot of time trying to understand the people around me. After all, I'm surrounded by people who are not like me, but have the power to affect my life.

I've noticed a consistent problem as I've studied people, and it's one that NT people usually complain about us over: I do not understand why, when asked a blunt question, they cannot just answer you. I can guess, and given the right conditions, I'll probably guess right, but I don't know. I'm willing to fish until I figure out the right question, but I find it very frustrating when I ask someone a question and they hem, haw, dissimulate, try to change the subject and refuse, even when asked a 'yes' or 'no' question, to actually answer it.

I had a very frustrating conversation last night with a male friend. It could have been a five minute or less conversation, but thanks to his refusal to answer questions, it turned into three hours of me being progressively more annoyed and him making comments designed to sting because he didn't want to answer the question I asked (over something he agreed to do--I was trying to find a specific time to do it in.)

My best guess on why they don't say so, even when asked outright, is because sometimes they don't know. I'd accept "I don't know" as an answer. Sometimes it seems like they don't feel like they can say so, which I would also accept as an answer, even if I might want to know why. Sometimes it seems like they don't want to tell me, which I would also accept as an answer, though I might want to know why.

I want to know why because I need to know if I need to avoid a subject or discuss something differently with them. I don't necessarily want all the details, but merely a 'hey, can we avoid this subject' or 'if we're talking about this, please phrase it this way' from them.

It has to be something about the way their minds work--some sort of process of ellision which is native to NT minds. Does anyone have any insight into this process, or maybe a way to work around it which is less 'head-on-fire' frustrating?

Fear of something, whether it's revealing something that makes them uncomfortable, hurting someone, giving out information that could be used against them, admitting something they don't want to admit, or losing public face.

cubedemon: We had agreed to go to the movies in the next week. I messaged him to ask when we would go/if he was feeling up to going that evening.

We had an argument last Saturday, but we talked it out and I thought we were fine (as evidenced by the conversation we had afterward, in which we were both able to laugh and joke.) I even asked him the next day if we were okay, and he was a little weird, but no more than normal. As far as I could tell from his conversation, we were cool.

We aren't dating, we aren't anything more than friends, and we talk regularly (generally about coding or work.) We've gone to the movies before, which was not in the least awkward. We have similar taste in movies: awful. It's not unusual for us to talk sporadically on messenger all day, and then not talk for four days, then talk again. I am not always the first person to initiate conversation, and sometimes the conversation is as short as one of us sending the other a link, and the other making a single comment on it.

In general, the friendship has been low maintenance.

I know I've made him uncomfortable somehow. I asked, last night, if I had made things weird between us and what to do about it. The argument was over a particularly.... insensitive.... remark he made during game night about what he thinks I'm capable of doing. He talked about someone incompetent at his job who was being paid to learn Javascript, and I jokingly offered to do the job and said I could do better than just copy-pasting someone else's code, which he accused the person at work of doing. He said he didn't think it was possible for me to do that job. (For reference, I just passed another coding class with an A. Not an A-, a full A. They don't give A+ grades at my university.)

I told him, while we were arguing, that I didn't appreciate the categorical statement and that I felt insulted. This occurred after telling him to GTFO of my house. He offered and I told him to stay if he wanted to, but left the room to avoid doing something stupid. He tracked me down. I was planning on talking to him, but I wanted to go cool off because I was angry enough to want to slap him. I did not get the chance to cool off. He was in there before I had time to boot up my normal cooling off mechanism, TF2.

Not the best response, but it was game night and my house was full of our friends. If he could continue to socialize with them, I was willing to retire until I could get my emotions under control so as not to disrupt the rest of the conversations. Plus most of the people there were not fit to drive at that point, and I didn't think he was, either. The men I am friends with tend to drink heavily on game night, and a few spend the night on the couch or spare bed. It's a Saturday night, so it works out fine.

Nevertheless, I feel like we talked and got some closure on the issue. I said don't say that s**t. He said don't ask me to get out if you don't mean it, because it made him feel like he was being asked to do things I didn't want him to do, which made him feel creepy. I agreed that next time, instead of telling him to GTFO, I'd just start swearing at him. By our short conversation the next day, I felt like we had covered the bases adequately and I was done with the issue.

All the sudden he kept trying to invite people to the movies with us and started to behave.... squirrely... when we talked (avoiding the point, saying insulting things but refusing to let me back out of going to the movies.) I asked him point blank about this and what he would like me to do to make him feel more comfortable and he refused to answer that question, except for to say that it wasn't honestly true that he didn't want to go to the movies. I offered to leave him alone repeatedly, but he made inflammatory comments that I was stupid enough to respond to.

I'm asking how to better view that refusal to answer directly, since it is very out of character for both of us. My male friends are my friends because they tend to be very forthright with their responses (if sh***y on occasion). I know I was astounded that he would make that comment, and part of my poor reaction was shock. He usually just tells me what he's thinking and I tell him whether or not I think he's being an as*hole. Usually, we're both laughing at each other.

In the more general case, I'm wondering if there isn't a way to view the refusal to answer by a close friend which frustrates me less. I have my suspicions about why things have been as weird as they have been between us in the last few days, but I'm not sure and I doubt that if I ask point blank, I'll get any questions answered.

And so the question becomes how to understand the situation as it stands now, and to try to figure out a way to deal with not getting my questions answered (and the potential damage to that friendship).

Sounds to me like he's into you. A lot of times NT dudes will start acting "womanly" in their behavior and communication when they have a crush on a girl. It's natural for them because they are unconsciously trying to communicate in a way they think a woman will understand and appreciate. It's really irritating if you're more direct (whether or not you're an aspie) because it seems like all of a sudden your friend has gone crazy.

I would lay out the circumstances under which you'll hang out with him, ahead of time, and if he acts up tell him you don't like it and you'll see him some other time. Then REFUSE to argue the point further.

For example, if you guys are going to the movies and you're afraid he's going to start up an emotional conversation, you can say, "Hey I need to have a calm day without complicated conversation." Then if he starts up with the emotion talk you can say, "Sorry I told you I'm not into that today let's do a movie another time." Then leave. He'll learn to stop acting like that soon enough.

BTW as a NT with many aspie friends and family members, I can tell you that when you know someone well enough, you can tell when their tolerance for social stuff/drama is low. If your friends aren't respecting you when you obviously are not into drama and social stuff, it's THEIR fault. You shouldn't put up with it.

VAGraduateStudent: He...what.....I don't even.... o.@ Excuse me while I find my marbles, they appear to have rolled away. I mean, he's made a few sorta flirty comments over the last two years, but he usually acts like a s**t right after and I tend to believe he's kidding/just being an as*hole. He likes to antagonize people for fun.

He's adorable, but we'd be a disaster if we dated. There might be actual homicide just based on the s**t that comes out of his mouth sometimes. I think about slapping him about twice a month based on what he says, when I don't just leave the room entirely because I don't like strong emotions and I am really not okay with provocation when it rises above a certain level (like stating that he thinks I'm incapable in front of a room full of our friends. Name calling is just amusing for me, usually.)

Why wouldn't he just... say something? Or at least answer my questions. It's hard for me to wrap my mind around his behavior.

I think I'm using your suggestion. I'm finding this very confusing.

I'm not saying that he has a well-thought out plan to seduce and marry you. Guys often find their female friends attractive in one way or another and sometimes they get a little confused. I think this is often completely unconscious on their part. Some women won't be friends with hetero guys at all because they're so sick of confusing behavior.

Girls totally do this too. And it happens with gay people. I have a gay male friend whose best friend is also a gay male. Whenever my friend is feeling a little lost with dating or having family problems he starts acting weird toward his best friend. They are NOT compatible in any way, which is why they're just friends. I guess he just gets confused with where friends end when he's having other problems in his life.

And obviously I could also be wrong. It's just what sprang to my mind. Don't let the idea stress you out!

And if this is what is going on, it may feel stressful to your friend. Trouble figuring out what you want and feel and trouble communicating it under stress is common to human beings and not restricted to people with ASD.

Here's what happened, OP: you thoroughly shamed him in front of your friends by telling him to get out of your house. He'd been treating you like one of the guys. The guy code says that if you're friends, you put up with and ignore each others' serious s**t, because loyalty comes first. Dude really pisses you off? Leave, hide out, discreetly tell a friend to handle him, whatever. You do not throw him out of your house, and you especially do not do it in front of your entire crew. 10000x worse if it's a woman doing it to him, not least because of the automatic assumption people will make that the offense was sexual in nature.

He doesn't feel all that safe around you now and is probably going to feel that way for a while. He'd been treating you like one of the guys; now he doesn't feel he can do that because you wigged on him, and the whole situation weirds him out, he'd rather avoid.

As for the way he'd offended you in the first place: I run into this all the time with my bf. He insists he'd be great at something I need done, but in fact there's a lot of stuff he's not thinking about when it comes to doing the job, and his self-assessments aren't always spot-on. So he'll demand a chance to do something, and because it's something I actually need done right the first time and I don't see evidence that he can do it, I'll say no. Then he's furious and takes my refusal as lack of faith, which he expects me to give blindly and loyally.

Getting a good grade in a class doesn't mean much when it comes to work in practice. It means you can do some canned exercises and maybe a carefully-controlled-and-delimited project, and you can do them okay. Ish. Depending. Schools are businesses, they don't want students getting bad grades, because bad grades means complaints and tuition money sprouting legs and walking away. A student of mine might get an A, but that alone doesn't mean I'd hire that student to do commercial work, particularly challenging work.

It's possible that your friend sorely underestimated you, but unless you have practical experience with the kind of project he wants done, I don't think it's unreasonable of him to have turned you down.