The anti-aspie

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I would like to propose the existence of what I deem to be the anti-aspie.

No, these are not people that hate aspies, yet individuals that posess an abnormally effective empathy, to such an extent that their own personal thought processes are largely dominated by the mental state of those around them, almost to their own detriment. They are consequently susceptible to display a wide range of emotions and be more often than not emotionally active. I hypothesise that these people are especially prevalent in domains such as nursing and social work and most likely female. They may possibly have less aptitude in logical problem solving in the same way aspies may possibly be more apt.

Of course, the anti-aspie has escaped the scientific attention reserved for aspies because they fit in with society exceptionally well. Yet I find it curious that people can possibly lie on the extreme opposite end of the so-called autism spectrum.

I believe I know one or two people that may fit this description. One is a nurse and appears to have exceptional instinctive empathy qualities. It is almost as if she knows what I am feeling before I do.

Have you come across an anti-aspie?

Yes, I have come across them.

Simon Baron-Cohen referred to them as having the extreme female brain, or extreme empathisers, as opposed to autistic people who have the extreme male brain, or extreme systemisers. Whether you agree with that way of putting it or not, the way he describes such people is very similar to your description.

i like that type of people, they are the inclusive kind who are friends of almost everyone. I think they are similar to enneatype 2 from enneagram of personality.

You don´t have to be not-aspie to be able to empathise. That is a clichee!
Aspies can be very good, loving caregivers, like NT´s - or cold monster. like some (luckily few) NT´s.
It is all up to personality type - and upbringing/social-emotional bacground.

Another example that might fit the bill is magician Derren Brown.

I'm not 100% convinced his stuff is genuine so to speak, but if it is I think he may qualify as an anti-aspie.

This sort of thing for example:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QI5-NDiY7IM
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fs2_qU6pZfQ
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ziOJjvKRe9U

surely demands acute empathy.

I'm a diagnosed aspie, yet my ex-girlfriend described me once as the most empathic person she has ever met. Even though I can be a very logical and rational person. I also always was very good at mathematics, even studying it on university level.

Really this logic-robot description of aspies needs to die a quick death. You ever heard of the Intense World Syndrome theory of Asperger's?

According to the Intense World Syndrome, aspies feel emotions so intensely that often it causes almost a shutdown kind of state. Since emotions are felt intensely, and the individual cannot really handle it, he/she voluntarily tries to avoid feeling and situations or people that make him/her feel strongly. Therefore an aspie has a hard time showing empathy, since he/she is so overwhelmed by the emotions.

To outside observers, an aspie's behaviour might seem unempathic even though internally there is a chaos of emotions.

Only recently I have learned to tolerate these empathic responses I have. Hard to say how exactly. I guess some kind of desenzitation process has happened, by voluntarily exposing myself to extreme emotions. As a result I have started to be able to use it to my advantage finally in forming interpersonal relationships.

I can't say I agree with that theory at all. I do agree that aspies can be overwhealmed by intense emotions, but it is only these intense emotions that get through whereas most of the time the less intense emotions are ignored by the rhs of the brain. In any case when talking of emotions in aspergers I believe it is more correct to speak in the context of alexithymia rather than autism.

Aspies can absolutely be empathetic, but the distinction I would make is that it is not spontaneous or instinctive, rather logic based and takes time.

Do you mean if you assume he is actually able to predict what people will do/think? If so, sure, but Derren Brown mostly deals in trickery and deception.

They are called empaths and some people with ASD can have it.

A cold monster? That seems rather harsh. It is no fault of my own, or any other, to be unable to see another's emotional point of view. I am no monster, I just don't get why, when or where people need empathy much of the time. The ability to empathize naturally does not make one a better person, either. I would like to point out that AS persons are quick to point out that they can, in fact, empathize, even if it is LEARNED empathy or not proper empathy, yet are quick to claim no social skills, even if they have LEARNED quite a few. How are the two any different? I can't subscribe to the notion that many with high function ASD have no trouble understanding empathy - that would seem to contradict much of what makes one autistic.

.... I went off on a slight tangent, but it irks me that one might parade around on an autism forum calling those with emotional deficits "cold monsters"

As for the OP: I do believe I have a double edged sword of having too much empathy at times when I have experienced the situation myself, (or in the least am able to apply myself), but I am lost when it comes to something that has never affected me to a personal degree. I could see how the root of not being able to look at one's or other's emotions subjectively could be the cause of this.

In these clips he almost seems to be able to read peoples minds by closely watching their faces, gests, and to some extent put thoughts into their minds - that is if there is no other trickery involved. Hard to tell. Anyway, to do so in real time would require very sophisticated "mentalisation" of the mental state of those involved I would imagine.

Yes, this is an important point. If an anti-aspie also has good morals they could be a very nice person. The opposite is also true. I have read (Frifth I think) that on average psychopaths have above average empathy. An individual of anti-aspie empathetic levels and very corrupt morals could be a very nasty piece of work. The anti-aspie I know has shown dubious morals at times, nothing at all nasty though, just noteworthy that being super-empathetic does not garanty a Mother Teresa.



Agree, although I guess it is possible to be capable of mentalisation without experiencing the feeling associated with that state. In fact, I think this is probably the case when aspies "empathise" - they can put themselves in the shoes of another person, but the point of view is such that they are seeing the world as if that other person is an aspie. ie they don't experience the emotions of that person, just the logical context of their situation. With this information they can then react somewhat appropriately but perhaps not as well as with "real" empathy (here I define empathy as the ability to mentalise the state of another and, most importantly, experience their emotions).



Yes, I think you are correct here. Seeing only their context but not feeling their emotions. A certain context may provoke an intense reaction on behalf of the aspie, especially I think on a moral level - "morally I must act in this situation!! !" - whereas an NT may be able to sense something more fine grained, for example a homeless person that wants to be homeless and left alone, and as such feels it is more appropriate not to act.

Please don´t take my choise of words as an attack.
I wasn´t referring to anyone in particular. I was only speaking in general terms and chose to exemplify by use of the strongest opposites.
Having difficulty seeing things from others point of view is not being cold.
That wasn´t what I intended to say.
My point is, that empatic ability does not depend on whether you are AS or NT, but only on, what person you are.

I understand now that you meant it as an example of polar opposites, not absolutes.

The thought of people with empathy vs. no empathy and the level of morality is interesting. I like to think of myself as a morally sound person, and therefore am able to at least not hurt someone further with my lack of empathy, but could see how one who is a general an @$$ could damage the situation further whether they heavily empathize or not.
On a side, I am unsure of what empathy really is anyway I think it's too complex for what I believe language is even able to convey.

I´ve been wondering about the same questions. What I thought to be empathy, seems to be being overwhelmed, so I thought, I was a cold reptile.

Empathy, the man explained, is more or less an intellectual matter: You can see, that someone is sad and offer to listen, or try to find something comforting to say to make the person feel better/find a solution or whatever.

The empathy lies in recognition of the sad expression or words and knowledge of how that feels.
Acting on it can be trying to ease the pain for the other, help him/her to get past that point, or maybe just be there.
You empathise, but you maintain a distance.

Empathy is often described as an ability to "Feel the pain of others". That is impossible!! !
Those, who physically and mentally feel, they go through the pain of others, are, in fact, overwhelmed with their own emotions, that are being triggered, and we all have them.

In this context, being unable to read expressions or having difficulty imagining the reason for the expression is not being cold. Not a moral problem.
It´s merely a difficulty/handicap.

From that perspective, I'd imagine many with AS have a delayed empathetic reaction - possibly after they have taken the time to come to a step by step conclusion of what manifested these feelings for the other person. This makes me contemplate whether the anti-aspies "act before they think", including anyone who feels they are empaths, AS or not.

With that, if sympathy is the actual act of comforting once one has concluded that the other person is in need, then I wonder the difference of expression between those who are great sympathizers and those who are not. Though, I wonder more of what lies between the obvious poles. I will save the thought for a different thread, as to not get off the OPs topic!