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ColHamilton
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30 Dec 2019, 5:18 pm

I don't know how normal this is, but I have a big problem in terms of my susceptibility to religion and religious arguments. This might not sound dangerous, but in my case it has led to a lot of anxiety.

By the way: I felt this belongs in this section more than the religious one, because it's not religion per se that I want to talk about, but what to do about a situation with a religious colleague.

I was raised Christian (Christian parents and Christian education meant I grew up believing Christianity was obviously the truth). This fell apart when I was in my teens and encountered the videos of the so-called New Atheists (Dawkins and co). But then, when I went to university at 19, I was introduced to strong evangelical Christianity (the kind that insists on you being born again and being moved by the Holy Spirit) etc. I recommitted myself, but the fear of eternal damnation in Hell meant I hated my new found religion. After several mental health issues, I abandoned Christianity and became a lot better for it.

But now, in my work place, a new colleague whom I'm training is trying to convert my to his form of Christianity, insisting I need to be saved or I will perish. To my annoyance, his arguments are starting to get through but I suspect I'm returning to the start of a cycle like before.

I don't really know what to do about this colleague. I've told him I'm not religious anymore, and told him about it affected me in the past, but he insists I was with the wrong 'type of Christians'.

Sorry about the long rambly post, and I hope this issue isn't too sensitive. I really just want some advice on dealing with this guy and this issue.



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30 Dec 2019, 5:21 pm

ColHamilton wrote:
... in my work place, a new colleague whom I'm training is trying to convert my to his form of Christianity, insisting I need to be saved or I will perish. To my annoyance, his arguments are starting to get through but I suspect I'm returning to the start of a cycle like before. I don't really know what to do about this colleague...
Report him to your Human Resources Department for religious harassment.


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30 Dec 2019, 5:51 pm

That is NOT okay.

Definitely report it.

Those people are good at being persuasive. They spend a lot of time coming up with seemingly good arguments that most people aren’t prepared to fight against, learning how to overcome specific objections or doubts, and how to play on a person’s emotions. It’s all very manipulative.

I know because I used to be one of these people myself although I was never dumb enough to preach in the workplace.



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30 Dec 2019, 5:53 pm

Report him before you get sucked in and ripped off ... again!

Since cults often present themselves as religions, they appeal to the spiritually disillusioned in search of some kind of salvation or purpose. And because they offer instant acceptance, support and community, someone going through a life crisis or feeling isolated and lonely is particularly vulnerable.

Kevin Crawley, author of Reintegration of Exiting Cult Members with Their Families: A Brief Intervention Model, describes three typical essential elements of a cult:

• An “us” vs. “them” mentality.

• Subtle but intense indoctrination techniques, including one or more of the following: subjection to stress and fatigue; social disruption, isolation and pressure; criticism and humiliation; fear, anxiety and paranoia; control of information; escalating commitment; use of autohypnosis to induce peak experiences.

• A charismatic leader or group of leaders teaching that the cult is a special path to safety and salvation.

Link:
How Cults Prey on the Vulnerable.


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Last edited by Fnord on 30 Dec 2019, 5:59 pm, edited 1 time in total.

ColHamilton
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30 Dec 2019, 5:57 pm

Thank you both for your replies. I also feel a little relieved, on two points:

1) I thought I was perhaps being unreasonably annoyed at a person for trying, in their view, to help me.
2) I'm glad you mentioned their being good at arguments. His arguments, combined with his certainty, are very hard for me to refute because I'm not an especially talented debater. Doubting is my natural position, so I find it easy to doubt my own views when confronted with his certainty.



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30 Dec 2019, 6:02 pm

ColHamilton wrote:
Thank you both for your replies. I also feel a little relieved, on two points:

1) I thought I was perhaps being unreasonably annoyed at a person for trying, in their view, to help me.
2) I'm glad you mentioned their being good at arguments. His arguments, combined with his certainty, are very hard for me to refute because I'm not an especially talented debater. Doubting is my natural position, so I find it easy to doubt my own views when confronted with his certainty.


He’s probably picking up on your uncertainty and is intentionally becoming firmer. He probably thinks that he has a good shot with you whereas with a more outspoken and obstinate person he might not even bother.

I’m not sure what his religious persuasion is, but if he’s something like a Jehovah’s Witness (like I was), he spends a lot of time being taught how to preach, what to say, and he’s definitely practiced a lot.



ColHamilton
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30 Dec 2019, 6:05 pm

He is a Baptist of some sort, and apparently his church practices 'lay preaching', which he has participated in. He also reads a lot of books on apologetics that he is trying to get me to read. I feel like an idiot typing this, but when it's just the two of us getting lunch or whatever, he can really make it sounds very convincing. As I say though, Christianity really screwed me up in the past.



TwilightPrincess
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30 Dec 2019, 6:12 pm

ColHamilton wrote:
He is a Baptist of some sort, and apparently his church practices 'lay preaching', which he has participated in. He also reads a lot of books on apologetics that he is trying to get me to read. I feel like an idiot typing this, but when it's just the two of us getting lunch or whatever, he can really make it sounds very convincing. As I say though, Christianity really screwed me up in the past.


I have a Baptist church near me that’s like that. Nutty!

I’d firmly say that you aren’t interested and no longer wish to discuss it. If he asks why, you can say that you don’t wish to discuss that either. If he persists, I’d report it.

Definitely, don’t let yourself get sucked back into it.

Apologetics are filled with faulty logic and reasoning. I occasionally engage when I feel like a laugh, but for your personal situation, I’d stay far away. If there happens to be a loving God, he would understand your personal needs and wouldn’t penalize you for taking care of yourself.

I like Dawkins, too. Have you read The God Delusion?



kraftiekortie
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30 Dec 2019, 6:24 pm

Just tell him to stop with the preaching.

You don't want to be "saved."

You just want him to do his work to the best of his ability.

Proselytizing has no place at work.

I feel like anybody who does that when he/she is first employed has a screw loose somewhere....



ColHamilton
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30 Dec 2019, 6:26 pm

Twilightprincess wrote:
ColHamilton wrote:
He is a Baptist of some sort, and apparently his church practices 'lay preaching', which he has participated in. He also reads a lot of books on apologetics that he is trying to get me to read. I feel like an idiot typing this, but when it's just the two of us getting lunch or whatever, he can really make it sounds very convincing. As I say though, Christianity really screwed me up in the past.


I have a Baptist church near me that’s like that. Nutty!

I’d firmly say that you aren’t interested and no longer wish to discuss it. If he asks why, you can say that you don’t wish to discuss that either. If he persists, I’d report it.

Definitely, don’t let yourself get sucked back into it.

Apologetics are filled with faulty logic and reasoning. I occasionally engage when I feel like a laugh, but for your personal situation, I’d stay far away. If there happens to be a loving God, he would understand your personal needs and wouldn’t penalize you for taking care of yourself.

I like Dawkins, too. Have you read The God Delusion?



I have read the God Delusion, yes, and I enjoyed it (I read it way back on 2013, so my memory of it is a little faded). Not to get too off topic, but The Selfish Gene has been on my reading list for years. I must check it out, because I think RD is a fantastic writer.



Last edited by ColHamilton on 30 Dec 2019, 6:28 pm, edited 1 time in total.

ColHamilton
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30 Dec 2019, 6:28 pm

kraftiekortie wrote:
Just tell him to stop with the preaching.

You don't want to be "saved."

You just want him to do his work to the best of his ability.

Proselytizing has no place at work.

I feel like anybody who does that when he/she is first employed has a screw loose somewhere....


Thanks for the reply. It's the first time it has happened (somebody getting in-depth with religion in work), but he's a pretty peculiar guy (and coming from me, that's saying something.)



kraftiekortie
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30 Dec 2019, 6:31 pm

Sometimes, religion does get the best of people.....



Borromeo
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30 Dec 2019, 6:35 pm

ColHamilton wrote:
I don't know how normal this is, but I have a big problem in terms of my susceptibility to religion and religious arguments. This might not sound dangerous, but in my case it has led to a lot of anxiety.

By the way: I felt this belongs in this section more than the religious one, because it's not religion per se that I want to talk about, but what to do about a situation with a religious colleague.

I was raised Christian (Christian parents and Christian education meant I grew up believing Christianity was obviously the truth). This fell apart when I was in my teens and encountered the videos of the so-called New Atheists (Dawkins and co). But then, when I went to university at 19, I was introduced to strong evangelical Christianity (the kind that insists on you being born again and being moved by the Holy Spirit) etc. I recommitted myself, but the fear of eternal damnation in Hell meant I hated my new found religion. After several mental health issues, I abandoned Christianity and became a lot better for it.

But now, in my work place, a new colleague whom I'm training is trying to convert my to his form of Christianity, insisting I need to be saved or I will perish. To my annoyance, his arguments are starting to get through but I suspect I'm returning to the start of a cycle like before.

I don't really know what to do about this colleague. I've told him I'm not religious anymore, and told him about it affected me in the past, but he insists I was with the wrong 'type of Christians'.

Sorry about the long rambly post, and I hope this issue isn't too sensitive. I really just want some advice on dealing with this guy and this issue.


You're not rambling and it's not too sensitive of an issue. The guy is being a dick, and even if he is right, you can find better people to hear it from.

I've been told I worship the Virgin Mary too often by Baptists to give them any of my time or brain cells. (About Mariolatry: we don't.) While I don't share your atheism, you have my sympathy.

Ask him to stop giving you that view of religious people, if you think he can be reasoned with. Or if not, report him to H.R. and ask them to quit pestering you. I'd talk to him first, so you don't make him feel like a martyr. You don't want to make him feel like a heel either, but tell him to shoe, and quit trying to revamp your sole.


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kraftiekortie
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30 Dec 2019, 6:39 pm

Love those puns......



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30 Dec 2019, 6:41 pm

Fnord wrote:
ColHamilton wrote:
... in my work place, a new colleague whom I'm training is trying to convert my to his form of Christianity, insisting I need to be saved or I will perish. To my annoyance, his arguments are starting to get through but I suspect I'm returning to the start of a cycle like before. I don't really know what to do about this colleague...
Report him to your Human Resources Department for religious harassment.

^^^^
This.
Extremely unprofessional on his part.

I had to deal with something similar back in the 80’s. At least the guy was attempting more positive persuasion methods(good news) then your guy. The company was me, the owner and the guy was the owners son in law. It was my first real white collar job so I had to suck it up for a year to gain experience. It was my first extended experience with a saved Christian fundamentalist as they are rare in New York. I was very prejudiced against Christian fundamentalists for a long time after that, thought of them as demented freaks.


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Last edited by ASPartOfMe on 30 Dec 2019, 6:43 pm, edited 1 time in total.

kraftiekortie
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30 Dec 2019, 6:42 pm

What is the nature of the work?