AS-Wife wants to move out. NT Husband+2 Kids

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Hey guys. You helped me once immensely. Maybe you'll have some thoughts again.

I'm a NT husband and father of two boys, 15 and 20. The youngest boy is diagnosed with high functioning Asperger. My wife is a suspected never diagnosed high functioning Asperger as well. My wife and I are both 51, married for 22 years.
Anyway, back in 2019 my dear wife abruptly moved out of the house once. She rented her own apartment. The trigger was yet another tantrum of our Aspie-boy, but she was probably boiling for a long time. Back then this was a shock. I wasn't raised that way. I'm loyal to my family and to my wife. It shocked me that a mother can simply move out , abandon her kids (who were 12 and 17 at the time) and her family without explanation. On my insistence to tell us what was going on, she was only able to say things like "there was too much negative energy" and "she feels suffocated", "needs space"...

It just didn't make sense. As my wife moved out I started reading books and online resources than I ever imagined I would need to. It was around that time when I truly started to put together the puzzle. By comparing my journal notes to available literature and online resources I came to the conclusion that my wife was a never diagnosed Aspie.

Luckily, a new perspective and knowledge made it possible for me to be constructive and understanding even though I was deeply hurt. I also initiated a couple's therapy. 7 weeks later my wife moved back. I let our whole apartment be redecorated. Light colors, fresh, new, bright. It helped a lot. Things settled down. You guys in this forum helped me a lot too (viewtopic.php?f=32&t=376995).

My wife has all the usual symptoms of female Aspie (sensory issues, insomnia, social hangover, frequent depression....) so she needs a lot of time alone. Knowing how much this means to her, we were all extra careful around her, especially when we felt she needed space for herself. There were dozens of other small things we changed to give my wife more space, peace and calm. But I did politely explain to my wife about my findings regarding her possible Asperger syndrome. She felt insulted. I left it alone at the time.

But the emotional neglect I was subjected to throughout the years (without knowing the reason for it!), lack of feminine tenderness, my wife's tuning out of raising our kids as well as disrespect towards me when we had bigger disagreements (which I always fought as I'm not a puppet) took a toll.

Just a week ago I came to realize that my sorrow and emotional withdrawal was a consequence of the dynamics very frequent in a NT/AS marriage. You see, my wife's dominant strategy of coping with stress or conflict is avoidance. But when she's agitated she acts strikingly similarly to my younger boy who is diagnosed with Asperger. Aggressive, rude, with utter disrespect. Sometimes I can't even believe my ears. I would never ever imagine saying such nasty things to my wife. After a few days I usually addressed such incidents calmly with my wife. And sometimes she did apologize. But words remained in my head.

So from 2019 to 2023 we were drifting apart for some time. Slowly. Hardly noticeable. During summers, things were always better. During winters it always got much worse. Tiredness, frequent strange inflammatory issues, insomnia, signs of depression ....and a lot of blaming (even for things that were well intended). With time, there was less and less intimacy.

Then in September 2022, right after we came back from our "just-the-two-of us" little trip we like to do every 3-4 months, I learned that my mom was diagnosed with pancreatic cancer. Oh boy. It was a shock. It's still not easy to deal with the thought. On top of that, our younger aspie son (15) started high school really really badly. Just to illustrate, of 13 subjects, after a half of the year, he got an F (or 1 in Europe) for 11 of them.

As I was basically a primary caregiver for the last 10 years I was the one helping my son go through most of the primary school. My goal was to make it possible for him to get a higher education so he can be self-sufficient in life. Well, now I feel all the work I put in during his primary school was in vain. On top of that my Asperger son is 15. Which means he is in the midst of puberty. Which means when he gets angry, things aren't pretty. Throughout the years I learned how to handle those tantrums, but still my son did demolish the doors to his room, made holes in a plaster wall with bare hands. I'm describing this, to illustrate how stress in our family was slowly but surely building up. I am quite resistant to stress but even I had problems coping.

I could sense that we were now rapidly drifting apart. More and more frequently I caught myself thinking about really nasty and disrespectful things my wife said to me on several occasions. It felt that she was utterly ungrateful for everything I did for her and for my family (and I did A LOT, most men I know would long ago just abandon the whole situation. Not me). And during the past few months, I guess I was grieving. Probably by knowing I was going to lose my mother soon. But also grieving because a healthy and fulfilling marriage that I was striving for was increasingly becoming an illusion?

In a recent week or so I again read a lot about the NT/AS marriage. This sentence struck me.
"The strategy most frequently used by the Asperger was avoidance. Emotional withdrawal was the strategy described as most commonly used by their partner."
Well, that's exactly what was going on!

And, then it happened again.

January 2023. Sunday. Lunch.

When we finished lunch, my wife suddenly said to all of us (me, and our two boys, all still sitting at the table). She said she's going to find an apartment and move out. She said to the boys that she's still going to their mother but that she's going to move out. I asked "why?" Well, because there's "so much negative energy."

I had to restrain myself from going ballistic.

I took a day or two to reflect and calmly see what to do. Again, I started reading and focused on the NT/AS relationships. It struck me when I came to finally realize we were such a couple. So I made a proposal to my wife. I said to her that obviously the "talking channel" between us is jammed and that I will write her a letter (an email). If she's okay with that. She said yes. So I did. I briefly reflected on the past. Again I suggested that we are actually a NT/AS couple. For the sake of argument I told her we may assume that I am an Asperger and she was a NT spouse. But we have to educate ourselves about it and accept the reality, and start doing certain things differently. Lastly, I gave her a little Operating manual. How to handle me. It was nothing major, really simple. 1. Be nice to me, here and there do something just for me. Small things. 2) When you're angry and feel bad, send me a message if you can't talk to me. Then, let's talk about it in a few days. 3. Try to apologize when you know you screwed up (she rarely does). 4. Take over some of the burden that I have with our youngest Asperger son. 5. Tell me what you need to feel loved.

After a few days, she said, she can't talk about it because she needs more time to reflect. That she has her own version of hww things went but she just can't talk about it yet. But she did again say that she finds my suggestion that she might be an Aspie "insulting".

One another thing also struck me. There was a question in the blog of an author Lorna Wing (The Autistic Spectrum. In Danish 1997.) which says: "Is there hope?
The answer: If the spouse with Asperger syndrome (autism) denies his/her condition, the answer is No."

She was very clear about this difficult dilemma for the NT (neurotypical) spouse of an Asperger autist:
“In reality, there are only two choices. One is to accept the partner as he or she is and get the best out of life; the other is to interrupt the marriage or relationship . ”

Sobering.

I love my wife dearly. Armed with new knowledge I'm ready to accept her as she is and get the best of our life. But this needs both of us.

Fast forward. Last week things were greatly improving. So much that my wife even told me that she is happy with that and that is how she wanted our life to be. And then yesterday, after she came home later than usual, I heard her saying casually: "Oh, you know, I was looking for apartments with my agent. But they were all crappy and expensive for the price".

It was like someone shot me right between my eyes.

I guess my wife indeed needs space, if she's an Aspie. We live in a bigger apartment but my wife doesn't have her own room. So she wants to rent a similar sized apartment, I assume because she'd like our boys to spend the night there. What do I feel? I feel this might just be the final nail in the coffin. I was and am ready to work on our marriage. But you can't do that if one is running away.

Lastly, not that this is a major concern, but all this is going to cost us dearly (in real money). We CAN afford paying for another apartment (for now). But it's not so much about the money.

It's about values. One reason for our solid financial success was exactly the way we handled our finances. We always acted prudently, especially about bigger perpetual costs (which renting the apartment certainly is). And yet, it seems, my wife just doesn't care about that anymore. In that way, she's like another person to me.

I can feel my trust is evaporating. Hence, I'm seeking some insight and help from you guys. I want to understand. I'd hate to think that at age 51 all my efforts (as well as mistakes) were in vain and all was flushed down the toilet.

Thanks for any advice or insight.

Mark

P.S. One thing my wife did say. She said she doesn't want a divorce. She doesn't want to go through the nasty financial stuff and all bad things that happen when people divorce. She said she would be using her future apartment 2-3 days in a week. Well. I know she needs space. But I also know I am a normal human being. I deserve love, affection and someone who will not be running away whenever she feels like it.

P.S. 2 I'm aware that our "combination", a husband being NT and wife being AS, is rare. Most of the time it's the other way around. And so, there aren't many stories of others that I can relate to. All thoughts are welcome but I will especially appreciate your thoughts if you're a female Asperger or NT male spouse as this will help me relate.

i cant say why she does those things but i would divorce her.
Its going to be very painful for you once a week when she decides to literally abandon you...on a regular basis.
I would say she wants to sleep with other people , sad, if i were you i'd just go along with what she says but try to get proof of her cheating for the divorce.

Of course she doesn't want a divorce. She wants to have her cake and eat it too.

She gets to have all of the freedoms and accommodations you provide her with and still deny deny deny she has ASD.

Maybe you should take her at her word and not treat her like a delicate flower who has a problem she can't help herself with.

Plenty of people with ASD are assh-les, and their jerkish behavior has nothing to do with ASD (though they will user ASD as their excuse).

Don't be a chump.

Signed, Man who lived through the same hell twenty years ago

Oh this is heartbreaking, I feel for you.

Now there are two possibilities with what's going on with your wife, either she's an as*hole or an aspie. I'm going to assume you're correct and she's an aspie and respond accordingly.

Not necessarily. Speaking for myself, I did not leave my ex because I wanted to sleep with other people. Although he thought I must have done and tried to find out who it was (when in fact I've been completely celibate ever since). I can't talk for your wife but let's not jump to conclusions. If she is aspie it is quite possible she is in desperate need of her own time and space and/or completely overwhelmed by family responsibilities and that's all there is to it.


I think you've nailed the main issue here. Because how are we to recognise and work around the problems that arise from our AS behaviours if we are in denial? We need to recognise our flaws before we can even think about addressing them.

I think that the condition itself tends to foster a lack of self-awareness and insight into our own negative behaviours. So many times in my life I've spoken or acted out of overwhelm and in so doing treated others poorly. But it was impossible for me to take responsibility for that in the moment, as from my perspective it was I who was being treated badly, if not by the other person then just by life itself in pushing me past my limits and causing me to lose my cool. In those moments I was suffering so badly I just lashed out, if not physically then verbally, or just by removing myself from the situation and refusing to talk about it because it triggered me so badly. I don't know about your wife but for me I get complete emotional overwhelm.

It took me until around the age of 40 or so before I was really able to recognise that my way of reacting to things was quite abnormal and that I was hurting my family. Well, the bad news is that trying to change myself to be a better spouse/parent did not work. Trying to be more present and emotionally available for them actually led me to become more overwhelmed and led to more meltdowns not less. That was when I finally cottoned on that there was a hard-wired difference in me that I could not get around, and I finally realised I was on the spectrum and accepted that it is a disability. I got diagnosed at the age of 46. Now if your wife is an aspie and has got to 51 without recognising the problems with her behaviours, that does indicate to me a lack of insight and self-awareness which is troubling.

To be honest, it sounds to me like your wife has already disconnected herself from you, in a way she's left you already. But there is a ray of hope and it is this:

Now to me, that seems like she is trying to compromise and be reasonable. She has recognised her own need for space but for the sake of you and the kids she is saying she will not leave you and will be there at home more often than not. If she is being honest about this, it is a good sign. It shows a recognition both of her own needs and those of the family and a willingness to find a path that can accommodate both.

What to do? Here are my suggestions (although without knowing much about the situation feel free to discard if not appropriate). And I'm aware that this is probably biased towards your wife's point of view, I can't really help that as I see so much of myself in the situation, if she truly is an aspie:

First, accept that you've lost her. At least, you've lost the future that you thought and expected you would have together in the way you envisaged. I suspect that mentally, she's moved out already.

Second, decide whether you still want her in your life, if she's not able to be there all the time or take on full responsibilities for the kids. In a way, the question of whether she is an as*hole or an aspie is a moot point, because either way she has limited ability to be the spouse and mother you think she ought to be. Accepting that, do you still want her around?

Third, accept that whatever happens this is going to be a financial hit. If you want her in your life then you accept that she needs her own space, and although you can insist she pays for the other place out of her own income, if she has any, it will still be an income loss to the family. The alternative will be a separation or divorce which will likely be more costly still. I'm sorry, just being realistic. Your best bet might be to actually help her to get a place on a limited (eg 6 month) least at a reasonable cost.

Fourth, once you've got your head around the reality of it all, and embraced the general shittiness of life, and what she and/or her Aspergers has done to you and your kids, take a deep breath and re-evaluate. Once she has that space available, is she at least spending some time at home as she said she would? Has having that space helped her mood? Does she now have more energy to spend quality time with the family? After that, hopefully your way will be clearer.

I'm so sorry you are going through all this. If I'm honest, some of us aspie women sort of fall into marriage and motherhood with very little understanding of ourselves and our limitations. When things get difficult (e.g. sick parents and troubled teenagers) that's when it all gets completely overwhelming and when we should be pulling more weight we drift away and pull less. It's not that we are deliberately being selfish as*holes (usually), it's the nature of the condition.
But very hard on you and your kids, and I'm really sorry. Hope you can work through it.

You have the patience of a saint, my friend.

You’re fortunate to be so financially viable that you could afford to rent another apartment for your wife. It’s great that you are so financially responsible.

I’m not very sympathetic to your wife’s point of view, frankly. I wouldn’t tolerate her ungratefulness.

I’m probably not being helpful here. Aspie or no Aspie, I believe one should treat other people with decency. She sounds like an excuse-maker.

I would have gotten rid of her a long time ago.

Is there ever a point where she treats you like a friend?

You’re probably a more compassionate, deeper, more caring person than I am. Your children are fortunate to have you as their dad.

But there are limits….and I find that she breached them a long time ago.

I apologize for my bluntness…as I don’t know the whole story.

I do feel Mrs Peel offers thoughtful advice.

@MrsPeel Thank you so much for your insight. I read your response several times and found it to be very valuable for my situation.

Well, my wife is aware of some of the traits for sure. For example she talks about social hangover, she's aware about her frequent tiredness, insomnia, masculine mentality (she often says that she might have too much testosterone) etc....But still, she doesn't (want to) connect these signs with a possibility that she is on a spectrum. She finds my polite and careful hinting at the possibility that she's on a spectrum as "insulting". I'm not sure why would that be insulting if our son is a diagnosed Aspie and we're not hiding it nor we are ashamed of that fact.

My wife sometimes surprises me with some insights and thoughts. Interestingly, it's usually months after something has happened. Two years ago she told me that she found our older son "redundant / a burden" all until he was 12 years old (!). I will not go into how painful that must have been for our son here. Or for example, when back in 2019 she already once moved out (and then 7 weeks later came back home), then a year or so after she once told me that "her leaving us was not about me, or the kids...but about her". This tells me my wife is very well capable of self-reflection, but with a delay? Hence I'm not sure why she rejects the idea that she might be on the spectrum herself (by which this is also hereditary and we have a diagnosed son).



I think you are right. This is also my assessment.



Yes, this is also my impression.



You nailed it again. This very thought came to my mind back in 2019, when my wife firstly abruptly moved out the house for 7 weeks. It was then when I firstly suspected that she could be on the spectrum. I remember telling my good friend at the time that I have two choices. Either break up with her and put us all through all the usual misery OR accept that my marriage and relationship will never be "symmetric" and make the best of it. But because my wife and I were never able to talk openly about that whar we're talking here, it could be that all this time I was unconsciously "mourning" the loss of the future that I thought and expected us to have together in the way I envisaged (by the way, back in 2013 we agreed and wrote our joint vision for our marriage, can you imagine?!). Anyway, maybe I'm still mourning. But I'm also old enough to know that the grass is not always greener on the other side of the fence. My "fear" or let me say lack of trust comes from the uncertainty that at ANY point in time, same s*it can happen again. I mean, if my wife continues to reject an idea that many of our "problems" come from the AS/NY dynamics..... . When it happens again I might be older and perhaps not 51 anymore, but 60. In don't like an idea that I'm at the mercy of "dark forces" in my wife's head. Because as you say, she can't change that. That's concerning. So yes, this is my decision.



Are you a capricorn by horoscope? We think alike. What you wrote were exactly my thoughts, even though I don't like the idea of it. To be noted, my wife and I have joint finances from day 1. We don't split bills and even though we have our separate bank accounts, in reality both accounts function as one. It's not important who pays for what. For this to work you need total trust and faith in your relationship. Also, my wife is a successful business woman with an above average salary. So currently, we are lucky enough, that the money (cashflow-wise) is not a problem. But I hate the idea that instead of investing in real estate of our own (and so securing a financially comfortable time when we're retired), we're obviously going to be spending considerable sums of money for a 2-days-a-week refuge of some sort. It kind of seems like an overkill to me. I see that as an irresponsible way of handing finances. Then gain, it is what it is. s**t happens in life. "If you got a lemon, make a lemonade". I'm guess I'm just pissed off, to be honest. Because I could also go to a local BMW dealer tomorrow and get myself a nice brand new convertible for hefty monthly payments myself. But I don't.



Sounds reasonable.



Well, my wife has told me on numerous occasions that "she wasn't made to have a family and kids." Well, reading your post, I can understand that. But we DO have family and my wife DOES have a husband, a loving and patient one, if I may add. So, I think there7s a homework to be done by my wife too. Is she capable of doing that? Who knows.
Anyway, the idea that my wife is NOT deliberately selfish a**hole is what keeps me going.

Again, thank you for your thoughts. You can't even imagine how much you helped me clear my mind.

Kind regards, Mark

P.S. My wife, our youngest son and I are off to a long-planned trip to Thailand tomorrow (together with a two dozens of dear friends and their kids). Maybe a change of place and exposure to the sun will bring us all some more insights. Who knows.

Last edited by MarkP on 04 Feb 2023, 9:53 am, edited 1 time in total.

Yes, she does.

Thank you again for your response.

Kind regards, Mark

Vaya con Dios, Mark.

I also have worst issues around November to January, but that's summer here.
It may be the combination of christmas and all the expectations which go along with that, and the heat and humidity we get here.

I remember reading your other thread & hoped things would work out for you guys. I hope you & your son are having a nice vacation, I know you two really need it.

I'm pretty sure that she is not having an affair. I would guess she's experiencing an autistic burnout or shutdown. Perhaps she's not open to considering that she has autism because she thinks your trying to label her so you can say she is the problem. Unfortunately some people use the autism label as a way to blame their autistic partners or family members. It's obvious to me that you are desperately trying to figure out what's going on & want to find ways to compromise, work together, & help each other but she might be interpreting it differently. Another reason she might not be considering the possibility is because autism tends to affect men differently than women. Her image of autism might be based off your son & of coarse she's different from him in some ways like maybe she did better in school & didn't have the problems at home that he does.

It's possible for some autistics to have insight & make a lot of progress with their autism issues while not being open to the possibility of them having autism if their denial is due to misconceptions about autism & the autistic is willing to put froth a bit of effort into trying to work on themselves & self-reflect. Perhaps your wife would be open to considering things if you do not mention autism at all in the process. You mentioned that her issues are worse during the winter. There is something called Seasonal Affective Disorder where people get more depressed during winter due to getting less sunlight which contains vitamin D3. Of coarse getting more sunlight would be ideal if that's a factor but vitamin D supplements help some people & so do antidepressants. As I'm sure your well aware people with autism tend to have problems with depression, stress, & irritability. Psych meds help some of us better deal with those issues, they help me with all that. Perhaps your wife would be willing to consider trying meds like antidepressants if you mention that she seems depressed especially during the winter instead of suggesting that she's autistic.

As for as divorce being expensive, you mentioned that your kinda a full-time caretaker to your son & your wife makes decent money so you might be able to get a bit of child-support & maybe alimony if things really did come to that. She might be open to trying to work things out if she knows that your going to pursue divorce & realizes that it would be harder for her to maintain her current standard of living due to her paying for her apartment & utilities on top of having to pay child-support. Having to work longer hours or not being able to watch TV when you get home nor treat yourself to your favorite snack when you do, can make things more stressful. Do NOT threaten divorce unless you really mean it & think it over a bit. It kinda sounds to me like your bending over backwards to try & accommodate her while she's not willing to meet you halfway. Both partners need to be willing to compromise to make relationships work & it's a very one-sided relationship if she refuses to try. If you do get divorced, you'd be allowed to have a relationship with someone who might be more willing to be there for you if you meet someone interested. I still hope you guys are able to work things out but I know it majorly sux being in a one-sided relationship.

She may not want a divorce, but YOU might consider it. Not just for yourself, but your children too

In my heart I have kind of accepted the idea that a vision of the marriage I once though we’re going to have is (partially) gone. If I decide to stay married to my wife I’m aware that with high probability it’s always going to be an asymetric reltionship. Hence, I will need to find my needs met some other way. I’m not sure if that will work, but it’s worth the try.

That being said, even though I’m sad about it, if my wife is prepared to act resonably, I’m inclined to help her find a financially resonable solution for her to be able to retreat somewhere when she feels overwhelmed.

My wife herself recognized that we tend to have problems in our relationship from November to February almost like clockwork.

She recognizes that it makes little sense to rent an apartment somewhere full time. But on the other time she sees such an apartment as an “insurance policy” (her words). I’m not 100% sure what she meant by the term “insurance policy”, but I think it feels comforting to her that she knows she has a place to retreat to when she feels overwhelmed.

Instead of renting her own apartment on the market, I suggested her two out of the box ideas:

1) We rent a bigger house together somewhere at the edge of the city for a couple od years. And we find tenants for our current apartment in the downtown, effectively paying just a difference. This way she could have her own room and we would stay together as a family.

2) I’m a very succeasful Airbnb host with three units. We let my wife use one of our units from November to February. It’s going to cost us of some lost revenue but this is low season anyway and I alread know it’s going to cost us either way.

Of course, before doing anything like that we’re going to have to set some ground rules.

She didn’t say no.

Either way, we’ll see if that works next January 2024 (when our “state of the union” is always at it’s worst). If it works, fine. If it doesn’t, I will need to reevaluate my position.

Generally speaking though, There’s no point of “forcing” (or twisting her arm with various tricks) my wife to stay with me and us. If my diagnosis of her being on the spectrum is correct, I’m willing to give her a benefit of doubt and try this “experiment”. But there’s a line. I deserve a life too.

Thank you for your comments. I really appreciate it.

Kind regards, Mark

If you have noticed a repeated pattern (Nov-Feb) it sounds like Sessonal Affective Disorder may also be playing a role in all of this. Treating that may ease or break the cycle.

Yes. We tried to address the SAD (special light on the office desk, natural supplements for natural serotonine, more natural sun exposure, vitamine D...). While it helps somewhat, I can only observe that things are more serious. My wife experiences strong feelings anxiety, dread and overwhelm, insomnia, suspiciously strange inflammations, desperate need to be absolutely alone. Hence, @MrsPeel (in the thread above) was quite right. Just the other night my wife said that she needs her own space somewhere away from us because she doesn't want to "end up on the rope." I'm sad while I do believe her. It must be tough for her. She doesn't seem to grasp though how difficult is all this also for the rest of us.

It's a common stereotype for Aspies to lack empathy. Perhaps you could better explain it to her. Maybe it would hep to write it down or send an email & you write/type it out in a very logical straightforward format. You'll have to point connections to how her behavior is negatively affecting you & your kids & explain why it is affecting you guys like that. Give her a little time to think it over. However if she interprets that as you blaming her, there may not be much more you can do except continuing to try your best to be accommodating or setting some firm boundaries & be prepared to seperate or divorce if they are broken.

Does she actively accuse you or blame you or your kids for things related to her? Like blame you guys for her being depressed & irritable & says your behavior is why she needs her own place? It would be very concerning if she does & would make me think of the gaslighting abusers do. I would guess this is probably not the case but I'm asking to make sure.

That was why I was suggesting an amicable divorce. It could provide a solution, that gives everyone some stability, and get rid of the problems that everyone is suffering from here.