Business Venture? Complicated and in depth sorry...

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Okay. I'm no good with money. This would be a business venture at the end of the day. I'm not good at this sort of thing. I'm trying to be logical, but... *sigh* This has been keeping me up at night, mulling this over.

I'm thinking of buying my own breeding stallion.

I have about 75% of the money for the initial purchase. However, stallions require their own tall and sturdy fences (another expense), breeding pens, stalls and special equipment. Plus, I would want to have him trained and shown (more money) in order to promote him.

My husband is willing to help me with some of the costs involved, (he brought this up as a possibility after all. )

There is money to be made from stud fees; sometimes alot, depending on your ability to promote your Boy, who you know, your reputation, and just plain dumb luck. However my goal with horses has always been just to break even, not make a profit; so.... this next wrinkle has me sleeping even worse.

My friend offered to contribute to part of the costs in a co-ownership sort of scenario. I would be in charge of choosing his trainers, riders, and how to promote him since I am the one with the contacts and beginning to get a decent reputation with other 'Horse People.' I would also be in charge of most of the breeding stipulations i.e. what mares we breed to or not. She said 'silent partner' in the specifics. It's all pretty loose right now. We are still negotiating.

What I was thinking of offering was this: She would contribute a percentage to initial start up costs-purchase of the horse, special fences, and training- (I was thinking 15%-25%) and then get a matching percentage of future stud fees.

My friend and her offer not-with standing, there are pros and cons here.

I had always felt it wasn't necessary to have your own breeding stallion for your own mares. Artificial Insemination gives you one heck of a gene pool to look at. In most breeds that is. Except the one I am switching to. There are maybe 5 stallions that AI that are worth it (in my opinion.)

I have some experience with stallions, but it has usually been under supervision. I have never bred, or trained one to breed before. Both of these horses I am looking at are over 16 hands (64 inches +) at the shoulder and are well over 1000 lbs. I could get hurt easily due to lack of experience.

However, this breed is known for its tractability and many will mistake a curly stallion for a gelding until they check the plumbing underneath.

Plus, to further complicate things, I have it narrowed down to two well-matched candidates; same sire, same price, same age, and similar general appearance and conformations (although there are nuances that make a big difference).

For those who want to see the boys in question, or just let me show off pretty ponies:





"M". He is a stockier horse than the other. Very mellow. Very willing. Not alot of pushy. No mane and tail because he is probably homozygous for curls. Meaning that I can breed him to straight haired mares and get curly babies, no matter what, but leaves him in the 'funny lookin' category. He has a nice overall conformation, especially for breeding horses that are better "all-rounders". I'm leaning toward this horse as of this morning.




"K". A little lighter build than the other, but still plenty of substance. This horse from the tip of his nose to about four inches down his back has conformation that is (in my opinion) spectacular. And then... A little long in the back, and skimpy in the back end. However he is only two in these photos and I need more recent pics to see if he balanced out. Still great for breeding sport-horse types specifically. This is a horse that wants to move, and is bold verging on obnoxious. He will try for you, but only when he knows you mean it. He is probably not homozygous for curls.

Any advice on how to approach this scenario in general, my friend and her offer specifically, and what you may think of my two picks would be appreciated. I am looking for a little more objectivity. (If you wanna skip a category or two I'll understand. )

*For any Vegans/Vegetarians/Animal Rights Activists who may want to sound off on how reprehensible I am to be considering this: While I understand your perspective, and can even respect some premises of your ethics, I am not looking for a fight. Sound off if you must, and make your stand if it means you can't sleep if you don't, but I will ignore you here. I apologize if this seems assumptive or for any hurt feelings. I am a little gun shy. I have been attacked and harassed before. *

Thanks for your time and thoughts.

Last edited by pheonixiis on 29 Aug 2008, 1:02 pm, edited 3 times in total.

Let me cut down to the chase and ask, what particular advice do you need?

Well. I'm leery of going into business with my friend. She seems sincere, and she is giving me most of the control (and responsibility I suppose). It's tempting to off-set the cost but...?

I don't know if I'm being objective about getting a stallion in the first place. I know the cost and the risk (financially and physically.) There is an allure. It cuts down on expense and general aggravation to at least be able to breed some of your mares on your own place, with your own picked and chosen genetics. But... it's a pain in the butt, to breed other peoples horses, train a stallion to A.I., keep one in general, promote him, etc... That is all the work that would be required to make a business out of it, which is what my friend and my husband want to do with him. But I would be the one doing all of the proverbial heavy lifting on that. I'm having a hard time weighing pros and cons. Maybe a better way to get them on board to do their fair share(?) But I'm not sure how to divvy that up. My brain doesn't work this way. So, they contribute some money, and then I do all the work and they get a kick back on stud fees? Hmmmmm. Is that a normal business arrangement? Is there another way to go about this?

I know a fair amount about the horse buisness in general. You've covered so much here it's hard to really respond to it all. Rather than get really long here, I think I'll just PM you.

If you're going to go into business together, I would suggest forming a corporation. The corporation has stock and you can choose how much your investor(s) get for their investment. When the corporation wants to give money back to its investors, it pays a per-share dividend.

I can't say I know anything about the horse business (we do own horses and my wife has competed in Endurance & CTR) but this seems like a very risky business. I don't know anyone in our area that truely makes money off of horses. In fact, with the down economy, higher feed and fuel prices, most people in our area are trying to sell their horses - not breed or buy.

Some questions:
1) Is there a particular type of customer you're hoping to find? I can't see the pictures from my location so I can't tell the breed. Do you have some particular contact or "in" with the group of customers you're trying to reach? Would they buy from you (a newcomer) or go to their usual sources?

2) Any history of breeding on the stallions you're looking at? If so, do you know if the mares had foals similar to themselves or the stallion? If they're not breeding them, why not?

3) How many people are you going to have to hire for this horse? In most businesses, payroll is the largest recurring cost.

4) Are you planning on breeding all your current mares to the new stallion? Will you be able to train the offspring or will you have to spend more money hiring people to train them? When we purchase horses we expect a base level of ground training and manners.

Boy that's the truth.




They are Curly Sport Horses. I do have an "in" with what I consider my primary potential customer base, I have a few even. The network is there. There is always some awkwardness for the newbie in any business, but I have some people to vouch for me. There aren't a lot of quality sources for this breed. I think both of these are stallions with something to offer.



Neither one of these has been bred. He has (currently) five sons of this stud entire, hoping for breeding buyers. He isn't breeding them because he still uses their sire as his primary breeding stallion and they are related to quite a few of the younger mares on that place.



At least a trainer, long term, and possibly other riders to compete on him. However, I've got a few in mind who may be able to do double duty there. Which, won't cut down the cost, but will cut down the complicated. As far as his regular care, and handling, I can do most of that, when he is here that is.



I probably won't breed all of my mares to him every breeding season.

I agree that horses should go to their new homes with the basics. That is something I do already. I will be able to give the offspring ground training and manners, and be able to train the just plain ol' riding horses myself; but any thing beyond that will have to go to a professional. At least until I acquire that experience, which is an on going goal. But, I'm not there yet.

Thanks. You gave me something to think about with the 'corporation' idea. But I don't know if she'll go for that.