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Mage
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22 Jul 2008, 3:05 pm

AnAlias wrote:
Unfortunately we live in a world where the act of giving offense is now considered a crime worth ending someone's career. I would like to know what actual damage Michael Savage did to the people he offended that is worth the furor they have raised over it.


Did anyone else hear in your head the movie announcer guy say "In a world where the act of giving offense is now considered a crime..." ?



AnAlias
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22 Jul 2008, 3:07 pm

:lol: Very nice.


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22 Jul 2008, 7:27 pm

I thought his comments were funny, because they were fairly typical of the misleading thoughts that are out there.
He took them to an extreme, but the core of what he was saying is exactly what a whole lot of people think when they think about AS. He does it to get a rise out of people, but sadly some people really believe that stuff.



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22 Jul 2008, 8:26 pm

I'm not terribly offended because I have chosen to hate nothing. True his comments were foolish and ignorant, but let him be foolish and ignorant. It doesn't hurt me and as long as no one who matters to me believes him then it can't.


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Ishmael
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23 Jul 2008, 1:17 am

Well, good thing I'm not a homicidal maniac... :wink:

Hey, waitaminnit... I AM a homicidal maniac, aren't I? I completely forgot!!

Time to sharpen my knives, Mr. Savage :twisted:

Oh, I don't appreciate Autism Speaks comments, either. "They deserve our pity".
Bollocks! Sod off, ya w*kers! Nobody pities me; at least nobody pities me and walks away with all their teeth...



Anonymous5646
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23 Jul 2008, 8:45 am

Fortunately, it seems cooler heads are prevailing in this thread... I didn't hear Savage's original comments, but I have listened to the two full shows that he's done since (well, half of the first and most of the second), both of which have dealt almost exclusively with the controversy. And while it's true that what he lacks in tact, he makes up for in hyperbole, a lot of what he's been saying to millions of listeners, is actually not that far off from what a lot of people in the autistic community have been saying to anyone who will listen.

He spoke of over-medication and over-medicalization of childhood, as does the community.

He spoke of following the money, as does the community. The only difference is where each thinks the trail will lead; Savage thinks it will to lead to Big Pharma trying to push the newest pill, whereas the community thinks it will lead to vaccine lawyers looking at the biggest catch since asbestos, and both think it will lead to "advocacy" groups who use the spectre of autism to line their pockets.

He spoke of over-diagnosis, while the community speaks of over-exaggeration of diagnoses.

And while he has not spoken against eugenic abortion (he has not said anything at all about it), the end result feared by the community (and rightly so), I firmly believe that is only because he doesn't know about it or its importance to the discussion at hand.

I know I probably sound like a Savage apologist, especially since technically this post makes me one; it's pretty rare that I find myself agreeing with him to this degree, and it's true that his normal fare is often flirting with insanity (if not past the flirting and over to necking), but in this case, there's more here to agree with than to disagree with, even if you have to cut through some hyperbole to reach the grain of truth.

(And while this is not the same thread, I'd like to point out, when he speaks of the "Stalinists" working against him, he's not referring to the ASD or autistic community, he's specifically referring to Media Matters, with whom this is not his first encounter.)



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23 Jul 2008, 2:10 pm

ImMelody wrote:
Being that they are the largest voice of autism (whether we like it or not), it is their responsibility to call for the swiftest action against him.


In the US, anyway.


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slowmutant
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23 Jul 2008, 3:22 pm

Anonymous5646 wrote:
Fortunately, it seems cooler heads are prevailing in this thread... I didn't hear Savage's original comments, but I have listened to the two full shows that he's done since (well, half of the first and most of the second), both of which have dealt almost exclusively with the controversy. And while it's true that what he lacks in tact, he makes up for in hyperbole, a lot of what he's been saying to millions of listeners, is actually not that far off from what a lot of people in the autistic community have been saying to anyone who will listen.

He spoke of over-medication and over-medicalization of childhood, as does the community.

He spoke of following the money, as does the community. The only difference is where each thinks the trail will lead; Savage thinks it will to lead to Big Pharma trying to push the newest pill, whereas the community thinks it will lead to vaccine lawyers looking at the biggest catch since asbestos, and both think it will lead to "advocacy" groups who use the spectre of autism to line their pockets.

He spoke of over-diagnosis, while the community speaks of over-exaggeration of diagnoses.

And while he has not spoken against eugenic abortion (he has not said anything at all about it), the end result feared by the community (and rightly so), I firmly believe that is only because he doesn't know about it or its importance to the discussion at hand.

I know I probably sound like a Savage apologist, especially since technically this post makes me one; it's pretty rare that I find myself agreeing with him to this degree, and it's true that his normal fare is often flirting with insanity (if not past the flirting and over to necking), but in this case, there's more here to agree with than to disagree with, even if you have to cut through some hyperbole to reach the grain of truth.

(And while this is not the same thread, I'd like to point out, when he speaks of the "Stalinists" working against him, he's not referring to the ASD or autistic community, he's specifically referring to Media Matters, with whom this is not his first encounter.)


Are you in fact a Savage apologist? :(



archdude
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23 Jul 2008, 6:15 pm

AnAlias wrote:
Unfortunately we live in a world where the act of giving offense is now considered a crime worth ending someone's career. I would like to know what actual damage Michael Savage did to the people he offended that is worth the furor they have raised over it.


I tend to agree with you about hypersensitivity, except that he was not making a joke or an off-the-cuff remark. It was a deliberate slander of a considerable group of people. If he was a carpenter, a mechanic, a plumber, an engineer, an accountant, or an architect, a pilot, or even a physician or surgeon, I would agree that his career should not be ended because of making stupid, assinine comments. But, since he makes a living by giving his opinion, and since he made these comments in the course of doing his job, I see what he did as akin to malpractice.

As far as the damage he did, that's difficult to quantify. But I'm sure that there will be at least a few people on the Autistic spectrum whose lives will be made harder when they encounter listeners of his who are idiotic enough to believe him.



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23 Jul 2008, 8:53 pm

slowmutant wrote:
Are you in fact a Savage apologist? :(


Wiktionary wrote:
apologist (plural apologists)

1. One who makes an apology.
2. One who speaks or writes in defense of a faith, a cause, or an institution.


I'm not quite sure that he'd qualify as a cause or institution, though he'd probably say he's an institution, but yes, I was writing in defense of him.

But now consider this: Why did you ask? How does the answer to the question affect the truth of my statements? If I were to say the sky is blue, would you declare I was wrong because I am a "Savage apologist"? My statements should be judged on their merits, not on whether I agree with Savage or not.



Cori
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24 Jul 2008, 10:57 am

Did anyone actually hear the show when he talked about autism? He was saying that the medical community is labeling too many children with autism. If your child was diagnosed with autism after being observed and tested for only an hour or so, then what Michael Savage said is true. A highly qualified doctor will take over 4 hours to assess your child with a battery of tests and will make a pretty accurate diagnoses. I'm not talking about classic autism and neither did Michael Savage.



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24 Jul 2008, 12:35 pm

That may be, but Michael Savage insulted and offended a lot of people. When is this ever excusable? I mean, had he been posting on WP instead of doing a radio show, our mods would have banned him posthaste. Celebrity is really no excuse for this kind of behaviour. I don't care if the guy has a milion degrees and doctorates. Savage wasn't censored because he is a big shot radio personality.



barcncpt44
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24 Jul 2008, 1:50 pm

i get what he was trying to say, but is was stupid


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cybershooter
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24 Jul 2008, 10:43 pm

Anonymous5646 wrote:
slowmutant wrote:
Are you in fact a Savage apologist? :(


Wiktionary wrote:
apologist (plural apologists)

1. One who makes an apology.
2. One who speaks or writes in defense of a faith, a cause, or an institution.


I'm not quite sure that he'd qualify as a cause or institution, though he'd probably say he's an institution, but yes, I was writing in defense of him.

But now consider this: Why did you ask? How does the answer to the question affect the truth of my statements? If I were to say the sky is blue, would you declare I was wrong because I am a "Savage apologist"? My statements should be judged on their merits, not on whether I agree with Savage or not.


1. You joined WP very recently
2. All 3 of your posts this far have been in support of Savage.

That makes me suspicious.

What makes me even more suspicious about your motivations is the manner in which you defend your point of view: You sound like a seasoned rhetorician.



Anonymous5646
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25 Jul 2008, 8:49 am

cybershooter wrote:

1. You joined WP very recently
2. All 3 of your posts this far have been in support of Savage.

That makes me suspicious.

What makes me even more suspicious about your motivations is the manner in which you defend your point of view: You sound like a seasoned rhetorician.


Thank you. :D I've been lurking off and on here for a while; I just finally had something I wanted to say badly enough that it overcame my general hesitation to sign up for message boards. (And I wanted to say it badly because I hate to see this community falling in line with all the others, when, as I said, Savage said several things (albeit in harsher words) that many on our side have been saying for years.)

But if it's a direct answer you're looking for, no, I do not consider myself a Savage apologist. (Though I still contend that whether I am or not makes little difference to the truth of what I said.)



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25 Jul 2008, 9:00 pm

I wanted to say since I made the thread.. What I've come to realize is that I'm 1) Angry that he'd call my kids brats and 2) that he is potentially causing harm to kids like mine. Let's say just one person believed what he said and had an undiagnosed autistic child. That one person would be given an excuse to spank their child, ostracize their child, and bully their child.. Leading to one more child growing up in an abusive home.. a negligent home.. and most likely having depression or anxiety for the rest of his foreseeable future. If that doesn't get you upset, then consider yourself lucky to not have seen what happens as a result.

The only reason I see it this way is because my cousin has a son who is autistic.. She won't listen to anyone when they say he needs to be seen by a doctor.. It's easier for her to yell at him.. and push him down.. and his father to belittle him. They treat their dog better than their son. And if this man, Michael Savage, caused one more child to live like that, then I will continue to cringe when his name is mentioned in my foreseeable future.