Jenny McCarthy -- Don't cry for us

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Do the ends justify the means, as far as autism treatments go?

I would hardly call Dr Mercola my hero by any stretch of the imagination; he provides a good forum for discussion, and food for further research, but he's hardly perfect and there are plenty of things there I don't agree on...

If everyone who tried chelation (which is a treatment for heavy metal poisoning; whether or not it has any effect on autism is up for debate) died or was seriously injured by it there would be a massive crackdown. Facts are if it's carried out by an experienced doctor who knows what they're doing and has done it plenty of times before and is keeping a close eye on the case they'll 99% of the time be ok. Again, whether or not that has any effect on the autism is another story. I wouldn't tell anyone wanting to go down that route to go to anyone but the best and most experienced doctor around - in fact, I wouldn't tell anyone about it at all to be perfectly honest, I don't see the point unless heavy metal poisoning is in there as well.

There are of course cranks out there out to make a quick buck from desperate parents, but unfortunately there's not alot you can do about that except urge parents to exercise caution and good judgement.

As for 'mainstream treatments'; which are you talking about? Autism in particular? All mainstream medicine? Anything in between? That's a pretty broad term to be using so I can't answer that unless you're more specific.

No skilled or experienced doctor would administer chelation as a treatment for autism. DAN scrapes up their docs from so far beneath the barrel that they get metal filings along with them. When a DAN doc does chelation, it's dangerous, 'nuff said. On the other hand, if you have heavy metal poisoning (though it won't work on mercury poisoning), chelation will save your life, if done in a proper medical facility, under the supervision of a specialist in the treatment of poisons and related ailments. DAN doctors are not such specialists. DAN, in fact, is what I would consider a medical terrorist organization. They use the fear of their clients to rape them of their money, and harm autistic kids in the name of "curing" them of something that isn't an illness.

I'm not necessarily talking about chelation by a DAN doctor - if they're really that bad then I think my saying it needs to be done by a qualified, experienced, highly-skilled doctor should cover it nicely.

(As I've said, I don't know a lot about DAN other than they say autism = heavy metal poisoning and like chelating people. I'd never heard of it until I came on this site).

They say autism=alot of different things
DAN's website

I'm not quite sure what their motivation is, but they are dangerous.

This is always your problem. You quote statistics that you make up out of thin air.

Here you state that a 1% mortality rate for "treating" healthy people with chelation is acceptable.

Ok, that was a ballpark figure, my apologies. Don't pull me up on maths; if I were to say it's my absolute weakest point it would be the understatement of the year.

(Mild dyscalculia... for future ref. unless I'm actually quoting a statistic it's probably a very rough guesstimate.)

I've yet to see figures in an Autistic person that states they've higher levels of mercury in their systems than any other person.
Besides which; how many heavy metals are all animals born with?
Can anybody say "iron"? If you were to swallow an entire pile of iron, etc. - you'd kill yourself.
But, BONDED MOLECULAR PARTICLES have entirely different results! Be that none; or beneficial.
Hell, you don't wanna suck up oxygen, either - at least, single atom oxygen. O2, on the other hand, is breathable.
Entirely different effect. Plus, we bond a carbon particle to that, producing CO2. Again, entirely different.

Chelation works: To cure radiation poisoning or heavy metal poisoning - real heavy metal poisoning.
But, this claim that chelation cures Autistics is... well, wrong. Very clearly. Anyone with base scientific understanding can see!
Unfortunately, the average parent of an Autistic child does not have that scientific understanding. All they see is magic numbers...

"Chelation therapy" is smoke-and-mirror tactics to make money.

I don't think this topic merits any further discussion. I think we've closed the book on Jenny McCarthy and DAN and the rest of it. I could be wrong, but ...

You forget that O2 is toxic in high quantities (80-100%) at higher pressures. Yet some people are using high pressure oxygen chambers to treat autism. I'm sure it's safe if done right, but combined with oxygen's flamibility... That's a disaster waiting to happen.

Fair enough, but one thing I often wonder - dunno if anyone can answer this? - is how much more of those toxic heavy metals (like mercury) we ALL collectively, as a species (and other species) have in our bodies as compared to, say, 100 years ago? 500 years ago? 10,000 years ago? I'd say with the medical use of mercury in the 19th century it'd probably be more then, though so much more it would kill you before you showed chronic poisoning, but a millennium ago I'd be interested to know of...

Dumb and Dumber is a classic.... Seriously.

To which I'd like to add, that I was at a meeting of some very sharp medical people (I'm not one of them) which was not about Autism it was about PTSD, and during a break, one of the neurologists sat down with her cup of coffee and danish and said (in response to a remark about Jenny McCarthy and autism) "What's she got except a set of big tits? If she had a big brain, I'd be impressed. But where did she go to medical school...or did I miss something."

And one of the other people there said "meow." and this woman replied, I spent 15 years getting my education and I don't have all the answers, and I certainly wouldn't get up in front of a lot of people and boast that I'd cured something about which I knew next to nothing. And besides, I'm not built like she is.

btdt

Maybe we should send that to Jenny? Might shut her up or piss her off. Either is good to me.

I think I'd like that woman.

Amanda Peet Speaks Out Against... http://www.wrongplanet.net/article372.html
Personally, I don't know much about these "fringe groups." On the surface, the vaccine argument sounds kinda dumb, so I haven't bothered to look into it. I will now.
On the other hand, Peet's argument is also flawed.

The word, "parasites" is not helpful and implies a number of things that are simply not true. In general, parents are trying to sort the facts from the fiction in a world where everyone lies about everything, all the time. A healthy suspision of new vaccines is just plain smart.

"It's irresponsible to suggest that virtually the entire medical community, and the CDC, and the American Academy of Pediatrics are behind a massive cover-up about vaccine safety."
This statement is totally irresponsible. Of course the entire medical community supports false information. They've done it a thousand times.
(Can you say "9/11 truth movement?")

Some of the mistakes of the medical community are more direct and visible.
See photo: http://engineering.cua.edu/biomedical/f ... pamimg.jpg
THE THALIDOMIDE TRAGEDY: Another Example Of Animal Research Misleading Science
http://www.pnc.com.au/~cafmr/online/res ... alid2.html

Some of their mistakes take longer to figure out.
See: The DES Cancer Network, FAQ. http://www.descancer.org/des.html
My sister-in-law was a test case in the DES story.

And it's been going on for a long time.
They say that for George Washington, the cause of his demise was that the doctors didn't know what else to do with his ailments, so they bled him to death. I just looked it up and it's not an urban legend: http://www.geocities.com/Heartland/Mead ... ngton.html

You just need to stay awake. Thinking is a good thing.

A complex issue like Autism is like the SIX BLIND MEN AND THE ELEPHANT.
Why can't Jenny also be correct? Could it be that everyone is right and has part of the story?
If she is correct, and vaccination is one of many triggers for someone with a pre-disposition, this is exactly how it would start.

Last edited by Tahitiii on 20 Aug 2008, 4:59 pm, edited 5 times in total.