Prop H8 hinders the Autistic Rights movement!

Post Reply New Topic

I'm gonna go out on a limb and assume you read it wrong. basically its a play on words on Prop 8 (H+eight=hate).
If you don't know what prop 8 is it was a proposition last election to ban gay marriage in California and deny gay rights. A lot of people say this is an important election because it could help determine the decision on gay marriage for the rest of the country.

I figured I misread something.Because when I looked it up, I got results ranging from defining personhood at conception to requiring student-athletes to have at least a 2.00 GPA in high school--and none of that made sense in the context of the conversation. Anyway, just making sure...

Last edited by Dark_Red_Beloved on 05 Dec 2008, 1:47 pm, edited 1 time in total.

I thought it was proposition 8....i think :S...But it is the proposition to ban gay marriages

I disagree with that being the best option. In fact, I am opposed to it.

I do not believe religions think, (although I am certain the religious do).

Marriage is no more a religious act than eating.


I'm no radical but I do not agree with it.

Okay, I've done my homework and am better informed on prop 8 now. I can see that it's counteractive to tolerance in general, but am afraid I don't see how it hinders the autistic rights movement. Thoughts?

California's Proposition H8 does not in any way, shape, or form hinder, inhibit, or block the autistic rights movement.

I believe indirectly it can. For one, autistics often do not have the most conventional sense of gender identity or sexuality. Even someone like myself who is hetero, I don't have a conventional sense of femininity. And I won't be conforming to any conventions about my gender anytime soon. I'm 37 and I'm single, largely because of that. I don't even bother dating, because I found out years ago the amount of social intolerance there is for even hetero relationships that don't conform to conventional male-female roles and how profoundly that can affect a non-autistic partner.

Furthermore, legalized bigotry like this sets a precedent. And we autistics have to face the same arguments thrown at gays: autism is unnatural, we need to be "fixed," we need to reject our autistic ways and embrace conventionality, we have to conform to someone else's idea of what our lives should be like as opposed to finding and embracing an authentic sense of self. With the law saying it's OK to treat gays as defective and suspect, and therefore not worthy of equal standing and protection under the law, people will assume they can treat autistics much the same way.

In fact, I can say they already do. I have personally been told by people they think that my being autistic means I ought not get married - how could I be a good wife to any man, they said. Nor should I have kids (my own or adopt) - what if I abused them or emotionally neglected them? (Note that opponents of gays adopting often argue that gays might sexually abused their adoptive children). I've been told I shouldn't be allowed to hold a job. Hell, I've even been compared to "a bird with a broken wing" who should to left to die as nature intended. No joke. And just like the people who oppose gay marriage, these people couldn't give a flying f*** about my own rights, including my right to the pursuit of my own happiness. All they see is my autism, not my personhood, just as they likely just see the gay in an gay person, rather than his or her personhood. Their reasoning was I'm not "normal," and so I don't have a place in "normal" society and apparently do not deserve equal rights and protection. It is very much the same irrational, self-centered, cowardly logic behind the opposition of gay marriage.

The implications of Prop 8 are profound, and we ignore those implications are our own peril. Human society has a nasty history of marginalizing anyone who would make the majority rethink their perspective and worldview. Gays make people rethink things. So do autistics. So don't think that just because these was about the gays that it won't affect you too.

And I expect Fnord will come back with something intellectually uncompelling and emotionally combative, but so be it. I have nothing to say to someone like him and I don't have a bucket of sand for him to bury his head in. He's on his own for that.

It's not even law yet. Chances are it will get overturned in the California supreme court. And if that happens I'd be willing to bet the prop 8 supporters will take it to the federal supreme court where it will either get overturned there (and thus overturn every other gay marriage ban in the US along with preventing any further bans from being implemented) or be upheld.

And I wouldn't say this hurts acceptance of aspies. Far from it. The bigotry against homosexuals is a lot different than the almost non-existent bigotry against aspies. With aspies it's just people not being very aware of what AS is and assuming we're a lot less capable than we really are. With gays it's due to religion. The aspie pride movement is MUCH more closely tied to the handicap movement than it is to gay rights. The mental disorders that are closely tied to the gay rights movements would be fetishes and other paraphilias (such as pedophilia).

*Sees previous posts and nods* Yes, I had suspected that the connection between the two was more closely related to social justice than any direct hindrance to the autistics right movement. Nevertheless, most times I'll test my suspicions just to be sure. You never know, I could be wrong. Anyway, the reason why I'm asking more questions now than usual is because lately my intuition has been way off the mark. For some reason, it's either scarily accurate or way off in left field. No in-between. Funny how that works...

I even read accounts that the California Attorney General wants it overthrown and even talking to the California Supreme Court about overthrowing it.

it basically is a small fringe group that opposes it now their just more able to convince the average person that it will effect them i think the average person doesn't really care about it they just go along with it

Closed shut? Hardly. Here's a related post you may find interesting.

Homosexuality is another matter that is not relevant to this discussion and the rights of Autistic people aren't affected by Prop. 8 at all. Thank you for pointing this out.

As for hate, the anti-8 people have been FAR more hateful: attacking, harassing, vandalizing and invading churches, the Blacklists against pro-8 people, use of the N-word for Blacks used at anti-8 rallies, envelopes w/White powder to churches, a man was forced to resign for donating to the pro-8 campaign, businesses like El Coyote in Beverly Hills have been forced to donate money to the anti-8 groups(extortion), so don't give me crap about hate coming from the pro-8 people. It has been 100% coming from the anti-8 people.

I did vote for Prop 8 and am proud of my decision for the concerns, welfare and rights of children and society over the wants of gays. 1/7 gays oppose same-sex marriage and they aren't hateful toward gays. CA Family law 297.5 allows gays the same benefits of marriage as straights w/o the official title of marriage. Gays don't need marriage, but society needs mothers and fathers to produce and raise children for the next generation, which gay couples cannot provide for and they cannot produce kids.

BTW, the 14th Amendment doesn't cover marriage and marriage isn't referred to in the US Constitution. No Amendment does. Per Amendment 10, marriage is under the perview of the states, but prior case law such as the case against the Mormons in 1890 established marriage as 1 man: 1 woman.

And finally as an Aspie, I take great offense at being told that my rights were taken away via prop. 8. All prop. 8 stated is that marriage is 1 man: 1 woman. That's it. No one's rights were taken away whether they were Autistic or homosexual, which is another matter that is NOT RELEVANT to this forum. I take great offense at being told that as an Aspie I am supposed to support the gay 'rights' movement to support my rights. Nothing that they push for affects my rights at all, but may do damage to society which I oppose.

I pay my taxes, I want the EXACT same rights as straight people. No ifs or buts, and don't give me that semantics crap that marriage is defined as an act between a man and a woman. It was defined that way at the time because homosexuality was inconceivable. Today, it's accepted and legal. How far up your butt are you that you think you can marry the one you love but we can't?

You take great offense to being compared to a misunderstood segment of the population? Of all people, you should understand what it feels like to be different and how horrible and frightening it is that a majority could possibly take rights away from you just because you were born different. I am both aspie and gay, and I definitely see how the struggle to be accepted is similar.

Until 1967, it was still illegal in 17 States for a black person to marry a white person. Most people were disgusted at the mere thought of interracial marriage, but there were some who were brave enough and intelligent enough to see this was wrong and fought to correct it even if they weren't black themselves.

Oh, and by the way, the argument you use that gay marriage will damage society is exactly the same that was used to oppose interracial marriage in the 60's. Hate never changes its true face. They even used the same sleazy trick of using children, like in those revolting Prop 8 ads, saying that all studies prove that a child from an interracial marriage is more likely have mental and self esteem and identity problems, so for the sake of our children, let's not allow black people to marry white people.

You don't believe in same sex marriage? Fine, don't marry someone of the same sex.

It is the absolute height of hypocrisy that religious people are fighting to take away the rights of two people to celebrate their love and commitment by getting married.

The only thing that damages society is bigotry and hatred, and Prop 8 is a direct result of both.

No you miss a key distinction here, homosexuality (and by extension campness) is a lifestyle choice. What they have done is copied a few character traits of our own, stuck it in the package of being gay and now we have people trying to illustrate equivalence. Personally I think its the gay rights movement which are in fact the greater threat.

You do have exactly the same right, namely to marry someone of the opposite sex. And don't you dare try and equate a lifestyle choice with the old race laws.