How to change the "victim" mind set?

Post Reply New Topic

I have a book called 'The Trouble with Blame - Victims, Perpetrators and Responsibility' by Sharon Lamb.

She describes how in all but the most extreme cases of Perpetrator - Victim 'relationships', where the victim is reduced to an object, there is some coercion of the victim. So to avoid being victimised we must be responsible enough to not allow ourselves to be coerced.

Wikipedia says coercion is the practice of forcing another party to behave in an involuntary manner (whether through action or inaction) by use of threats, rewards, or intimidation or some other form of pressure or force.

Lamb says victims should not, but are inclined to, 'overblame' themselves for events, as blame and greater responibility should lie most with the perpetrator, who would be inclined to accept less blame.

I think she says a young child or someone unable to be responsible would not be to blame at all, but I may have picked that up elsewhere.

autism supremacy for the win

its the only way forward

[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=b_kqoJJVDkE[/youtube]

This is really difficult . I worked on some insane construction sites . I learned bully is usually not singular. There's some weird herd behavior that goes on around them and they get other people to do their abusing and violence for them. I seen stuff that would meltdown NT's. I worked in offices where the bullying becomes symbolic violence. Yep the NT has a switch and god help the hunted in the hierarchy.

You know looking back , the mind is a filter. What you don't realize is there's a point where all this comes to a coherence and you can use, you can direct this life experience and use your AS skills in parallel and say I've been through sh*t you wouldn't believe and I'm not taking any more. They leave you alone.

An NT tried playing a labeling game with me yesterday. I was trying to help a friend write an Ph.D application, we were getting excited about figuring out a model, we were in a public place and this NT ( about 35 years old ) started mimicking our behavior and acting stupid around us . She wasn't getting any of the attention. I firmly pointed out what she was doing and told her to stop. She did. The herd focused its attention on her not us.


A lot of NT's don't understand the meaning of the words or why they are behaving towards you in the way they do . Many actually want to stop but don't know how. They are caught up in a co-evolutionary process and can't extricate themselves from it.

You can get to a point in life where you can make it plain, they do not understand what they are doing , you do understand what they are doing and why.

One challenge is helping them stop this NT silliness by firmly pointing out the nature of it to them.

It can be done. I do it all the time. It takes compassion to make it work so as not to lead to more anger.

Think about it. The strategy is if they can make you feel afraid then it carries on, and it's not just you, it's the next generation. Some guy's in your face intimidating you, he expects you to back down and become submissive you tell him straight,without anger what he's doing -the consequences to you are no worse than if you submit, and you're calm and not afraid most will disengage and take stock. These are skills like social martial arts that can be learned.

Regarding a branch of AS high IQ's stuck in menial jobs. Crap isn't it. Done 25 years . If in you go back to do a Ph.D or something like this and you've got life experience and survival skills that can be applied in a rarefied environment then you got your own credibility . Just tell them they'd never hack it in some of the places you've been, don't tell them any more than this truth. That'll do the trick and they won't even try to get silly around you.

You got to forgive them but be firm with it.

Meme.

So most of the contents of what you wrote was really good observation and theory. However this rule that an N.T behaves one way and the aspie another as if entirely separate is incorrect. It comes from a point of observation defined in the self. Potentially defining the ideal observers behavior projected to the conditioned aspie social manifestions here online. It is not that the theory is off but the classification of people types based on neurology is as it's far to generalized and subjectively to variant.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Meme

Allot of people with autism are simply not exactly privy. I am wondering how the false beliefs as far as social mechanisms effect behavior. This can get quite interesting. The autism is far from culture and what one defines as culture may not be collectively true especially if we are to derive culture from very little reciprocation. More so what some define as culture is a political agenda and other times culture is what might be found in similarity more originally without influence. How can culture and politics be separated so as not to modify natural behavior for the sake of agenda which simply are not shared significantly among the greater collective of individuals of autism. Hence just because an agenda defines itself as culture and is able to garnish attention does not make it the defining cultural definition rationally or ethically.

Man I'm nearly fifty . I've raised two hybrids and got them through to a point of self sufficiency.
I didn't suggest we are a separate species, but we have common enough traits to be classed as a group. My friends ( note that word) are mostly HFA's on the spectrum with kids and NT partners. We're mild spectrum . Yesterday me and a friend were figuring out how to build a model for measuring data coding in the health service. Like saving NT lives. The NT's in the social space were all looking around bored and for a target. They tried it on and got shredded because we've learned how to socially defend ourselves. the point of shredding is so they can learn and reflect, and hopefully they do it less and a little less of this trait doesn't get passed onto their next generation.

Social defense strategies are one aspect and from experience it works , like you don't play victim because victim role takes the same energy as non victim role but you all get less out of it.

C, I can see from you are devloping a model that will allow for integration. Most care plans and social inclusion strategies include a holistic framework of theories , pharmaceutical, social , individual psychologies . I'm saying there's one aspect of this which could approach applied social behavior as a martial art ( metaphor) and that if used responsibly will fit the overall framework.

Having studied some of the history of applied pharmacology in the UK I'm not sure I'd trust NT's enough with mind warping chemicals, at least in this stage of things. They have a very bad history with stuff like this. See, me and my friend studying that coding yesterday, and it turns out the NT's running this show, their attention wandered from coding to NT stuff , like status wealth power and the coding became a money thing and got distorted and media hell broke loose when they reported unusually high mortality rates, which actually weren't mortality rates but a problem in their methodology analysis . All it was,they were charging sh*t loads for processing the data and screwed up, and neglected to admit the mistake because they were on a cushy little number and they had an aggressive sales team flogging the system.

Man you get to see a pattern here.

The same thing happens when "a cure" doesn't quite work . I was born in 1964 in the Uk at a time when Thalidomide had been prescribed, so I grew up with the consequences of that in my classmates. It was also a time when psychiatric pharmacology was growing in confidence. The pattern is wonder drug/cure- doesn't quite do what it says on the packet has side effects, it's aggressively sold by medical sales reps , some of whom who don't give a cr*p. Product A is then superceded or repackaged by' or into wonder drug B and the cycle starts again.

You always gotta take what NT's say and do with a big pinch of salt. If they say its a miracle
then it's more likely than not, utter bullsh*t. They want to pay their mortgages.


I know being assertive and confident works in many social situations and these skills can be learned and are one part of the solution to the beautiful puzzle.

Meme

What you are forgetting here is at our age, and with our applied life skills my social group ( like read that again yep social group ) have the power to define ourselves as we choose in social situations.There are aspects of who we are we choose to keep. There are social skills we have learned to compensate with that when combined with our AS make us black belts in some contexts. If we choose our ground carefully there's every chance were not going to be victims and a positive experience can be had by one and all, once we dispense with the silliness that can arise if left unchecked.

I think it's interesting what you say and I am having a hard time placing it into an understanding in my mind I can reply to.

What I'm saying: we aren't victims because we've leaned how not to be, and that involves taking the welfare of the NT's into consideration as well. Complexity built out of simple behaviors, co-evolutionary way.

A hard,worthwhile road- I came in late after work today, and son and his girlfriend cooked tea for me and my wife tonight - do you see?

Ten years, twenty years and load of guys here, running high IQ like a computer program trying to do social analysis will have these small beautiful things, they've always wanted.

How they will utterly value things like a cooked meal , or washing put out on a line to dry , because of what they have learned on the way.

Don't believe the NT who ever told you we are worthless and make bad parents. That's bullsh*t.

Meme.