Simon Baron-Cohen: Aspergers Less Empathetic than Psycopaths

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Zero Degrees of Empathy: A New Theory of Human Cruelty is his third book and by far his most personal – At only six chapters it is a fast read, but don't let this book's slim appearance fool you, for it is weighted with authority. Exposing the lack of empathy that facilitates the objectification of others, dehumanization and cruelty is the nub of Baron-Cohen's research and the reason he has written this book.

Narcissists, borderline and psychopathic personalities are introduced as people lacking "affective empathy" – the ability to feel others' feelings. Baron-Cohen's new paradigm classifies these personality types as "zero-negative": a zero amount of affective empathy being a negative condition, because the ability to self-regulate the way they treat others is significantly compromised.

By contrast, Baron-Cohen defines people with Asperger's syndrome or classic autism, which is his own field, as "zero-positive". Like the zero-negatives these people lack affective empathy, but in addition they score zero on "cognitive empathy" – thinking others' thoughts.

Because some zero-positive individuals have, through their unusual ability to systemize, pushed human culture forwards with their discoveries (Einstein was late to talk – a sign of classic autism – yet he was an extreme systemizer who discovered E = mc2), Baron-Cohen categorizes them "zero empathy positive".

From THE GUARDIAN, British paper

Was this published way back in 2011?
Anyways, I think I might go order it tomorrow. Have you read it? (You. Yes you. You whoever is reading this.)
Was it interesting?

I have some affective and much cognitive empathy.

ever since I could remember, I've had empathy of both kinds, but was very clumsy about expressing it and/or it lightbulbed in me too late to do anything about it.

less than psychopaths, but more than psychologists

Here’s Simon Baron-Cohen’s definition of empathy, taken from the first chapter of his book The Essential Difference: Male and Female Brains and the Truth about Autism.


"Empathizing is the drive to identify another person’s emotions and thoughts, and to respond to them with an appropriate emotion. Empathizing does not entail just the cold calculation of what someone else thinks and feels (or what is sometimes called mind reading). Psychopaths can do that much. Empathizing occurs when we feel an appropriate emotional reaction, an emotion triggered by the other person’s emotion, and it is done in order to understand another person, to predict their behavior, and to connect or resonate with them emotionally."

This isn't a definition of a "normal" person - this is a test for sainthood. Maybe the Dalai Lama could meet Baron-Cohen's outlandish expectations. What an insult: Not even our intelligence counts! It's somehow "wrong" to use our brains to figure out what's going on!

And yes, some of the least empathetic people I've encountered are psychiatrists and psychologists. Medical too.

Baron-Cohen's attempts to correlate HFA with a testosterone induced super-male brain is a very good example of the improper application of the scientific method. The way he tries to make his data correlate to a linear correspondence between some predetermined property "x" and male gender is more or less eisegetical, i.e. his theory only works 1) if you pick and choose what it means to have a male brain, and 2) if you can suspend enough critical judgment to discern in a near-random field of data points a linear relationship between said "x" and male gender.

Then there is the blatant non-common-senseness of it all. For example, if my brain is so male then pray tell, Why am I not competitive or aggressive by nature? If my brain is so male then, Why is my proprioception (associated with the cerebellum) so poor? Why is my sleep disturbed? Why do I find it difficult to become part of a "pack" (which is a masculine-dominant social structure)? Why do I get sensory overload when the "real men" can hunt and fish in horrible weather? There are too many phenomena left unaccounted for B-C's hypothesis to attain the status of a viable theory.

Finally, what is at its root most frustrating to me personally with regard to B-C's speculations about empathy, is that he clearly is not interacting with enough real-life Aspies. After all, if he were, he would realize how wrong (and thoughtlessly cruel) his assertions are. You and I may lack social understanding and communication skills, but the irony is that we tend to be more empathetic than most, because we have suffered so much emotional pain in our lives.

But let's speak frankly - and I say this knowing a lot of academicians - most of them are not extraordinarily bright (I.Q. ~ 120-130), and many are too proud and too interested in prestige to admit error - even when the real truth is standing before their very eyes.

I downloaded the EQ test and am filling it out as an "open" test - answering with my true reactions instead of being forced into the agree / not agree option. The test is ridiculous! So biased and loaded with transparent statements designed to "trick" Aspies. Really dumb. I'm working on a website that debunks this junk. My intro is, If you want to know how to garden, you ask a gardener.....etc. If you want to know what it's like being Asperger, ask an Asperger.

Check it out: www.aspiemanifesto.blogspot.com

Also I've found several blogs by Asperger adults who are also fighting back. I'll post the links later.

zero? Has he not heard it is a spectrum yet?(sarcasm)

"Male brain" reflects some cognitive aspects of autism. I think it's not literal.

Males tend to be impulsive, be concrete thinkers, have good rote memory, "attach" to their vehicles, be confused by women's emotions, etc.

people have been throwing that line about for ages;that its either one form of empathy or the other that sets us apart from pyschos, narcs,borderliners.
am lower functioning severely classic autistic and have no affective and no cognitive empathy,though do have sympathy,a shedload of morals,a very caring nature without ever expecting anything off anyone and a need for following rules that am able to understand-though having limited mental capacity doesnt help in this area.

The Homer quote to Marge is very interesting. Homer: "You don't appear to be in any kind of physical pain, the only type of pain a man understands".

I'm female, but I am unable to tell the difference between physical and emotional pain. There are times I've gone to a medical doctor to find out, because I really can't figure out if I'm sick or upset! So I started reading about how the brain processes pain and "feels" emotions. Guess what? There is only one circuit for both - emotional pain IS PHYSICAL. How could it be otherwise unless you believe that emotions are supernatural (which I'm sure many social people do; it's a punishment from God, etc.)

On top of that, there are only 3-4 REAL emotions: The flight or fight response (anger, fear); disgust, and pleasure (or a neutral state of no emotion). Children LEARN to call their basic pain responses "emotions" - it's a part of social training. This is especially true for females - a way of keeping us powerless. Society teaches females to imagine that real physical responses are thousands of emotions that don't really exist!

What I'm thinking is that Aspies experience basic physiological pain, not the "emotions" that social children learn. Also that we have a neutral setting, which is our default setting, and it produces that blank reaction when people say something unimportant or baffling. We just don't feel anything unless there is something in the environment that triggers fight or flight or disgust. Social people interpret our neutral setting as offensive; after all, to them, everything they say or do, and the reaction they get from people, is vital to the continuing existence of the universe. They assume that we don't care, because we're not in their frantic (to us) emotional mode 24/7. Emotion for us isn't this fantastical overwhelming supernatural state that colors and controls the fate of mankind: for us it is shades of pain.

I think this also explains why Aspies commonly suffer from anxiety: social situations, from the time we are born, are simply dangerous for us. I mean, if you whack a dog on the nose every time it gets up on the couch, and then force it to get up on the couch and whack it again and repeat this cycle again and again, will that dog not soon be in a state of perpetual fear?

Simon Baron-Cohen is full of ***** than...

I think it is fairly obvious that theory of mind and empathy are positively correlated to how much the object of interest resembles you. I feel very empathetic with all of you who are upset by this. I really understand how you think about this.

S B-C is his own best example. His theory of mind about me is defective! His empathy is lacking!