Elliot Rodger killings- attempt to link autism

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What I don't get is that he could have easily rented a hot blonde escort for a whole weekend given the money he had access to, instead of being all toqued up over being a virgin.

Ultimately the killer is to blame. But maybe some explanations for his behaviour can also be found in the dysfunctional parts of modern society and culture, for example the commodified view of sexuality and women? After all, he saw himself as entitled to get sex and adulation from women. And it's not that hard to guess where he got that kind of sick (but actually extremely common) attitude.

I have a similar opinion on the issue. I'm a wife and a mother to two outstanding autistic human beings. That being said, I find absurd that people on the spectrum, parents and family members seem to be outraged when mass shooters profiles come to the light with a diagnosis of Asperger's or some other psychiatric issue.

Regardless whether Elliot Rodger had a formal diagnosis or not, he was prescribed risperidone by a shrink (that's on his own manifesto). He was NOT OK, he needed an antipsychotic that is commonly used in ASD patients, and he was on therapy since he was 8.

Do you really think that Adam Lanza (who had a formal dx of Asperger's according to his own father http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldne ... -born.html ), or Elliot Rodger's conditions don't have anything to do with how they felt?

I love my husband deeply, but I remember very well how awkward and shy he used to be in his early twenties. He used to have that same type of extreme thinking, he swore to himself to never speak to a woman again after we had an argument before we were in a relationship (I was lucky to talk to him out of many irrational thoughts he had). Fortunately for him, he was able to grow up as a human being, he likes what he does for a living and since he's happy, most of the pieces fall within the system. He's an asset for society now, but 15 years ago, he could have gone that same route.

I'm not saying that all Asperger's are at risk of becoming mass shooters, but the risk for depression, loneliness, poor self esteem, and paranoia is certainly higher than NT's. Many young adults with ASD are not properly supported or understood, they are left to believe that they will rot alone, that nobody will ever truly love them, it's heartbreaking. We need to stop this denial reaction of getting outraged every time Asperger's and a 20-something mass shooter's name are in the same sentence, it's time see where are we failing, as family, as therapists, as society. And do something about it.

That is some important insight, and I agree completely. But I am very pessimistic about society and the media tackling these issues. Social darwinism is on the rise. Those with "depression, loneliness, poor self esteem, and paranoia", on the spectrum or not, are expected to suck it up, take some meds and if they don't end up functioning, they have only themselves to blame. After all, are not the movers and shakers, the beautiful people, the great celebrities, the ones who get all the hook-ups etc. are the ones we are supposed to look up to and imitate? No time for the unsuccessful- "if you don't make it, if you're not living the dream, why should we care?" - these sentiments seem to be in the air, even among the supposedly educated. There's judgment all the time (even worse when it comes from one's own loved ones): AS and NT alike are left in the ditch to rot if they are "not good enough". I am not at all surprised if studies say that narcissism is on the rise. Sorry for drawing a caricature here, and I sincerely hope that I am wrong (and please do not see anything of this as a relativisation or apologetics for Rodger). A kinder and more understanding society is certainly needed, but from my limited understanding, I do not see us moving towards that, neither in the West nor elsewhere.

I think it's not the mention of the AS per-say, but the use of the term as a substitute for disturbed / sociopathic and other terms. Simplistically speaking, Aspergers is simply a condition that affects how the mind interprets sensory or linguistic information. Every AS trait (lack of eye contact, missing social cues) stems from that single issue.

If the emotional pressure that causes leads to a psychosis then that person is a psychotic who happens to have AS. It's unfair to describe their behaviour as simply being down to the Aspergers; and yet this seems to be what is happening now.



Your right that society has a bizarre tendency to leave people to rot and then wonder why it all went wrong...

...but...

...Because Aspergers describes a neurological trait, the label covers an incredibly broad range of different people of different abilities and with wildly varying behaviours. Some people can't hold down jobs, or have further mental health difficulties, or are socially isolated. But some of us have successful high powered jobs and make our way through the NT world quite proficiently. And the sensationalist media coverage we see, or the simplistic use of the term as a short hand for other mental health conditions makes it harder for us to relate and interact with our misinformed MT peers

Okay. Been there, done that. Actually, I swore off talking to anybody else again, of whatever gender, as a result of what happens when my social ineptitude wreaked havoc again. I'm still in a position where I'm scared to talk to anyone else, and regard it as socially irresponsible.



I would say it's not just young adults. It's many of us. It certainly begins in adolescence, but it doesn't stop there. The fact remains, however, that most of us will always struggle with eye contact and recognition of the shifting quicksand that is social boundaries, and this has consequences for making friends, never mind getting jobs and finding romance. When you are told often enough that you have made another social error, sooner or later you will conclude that you will rot alone.

I've suffered from depression for years, I'm acutely and chronically lonely, have dismal self esteem (for good reasons) and, well, I call it social anxiety, which is getting worse. I've been told it's irrational, which sounds like a working definition of paranoid.



I agree. Okay, where are we (by which I mean both allistics and autistics) failing, and what do we (ditto) do about it? I'm out of ideas. Every time I try to engage with another human being I run the risk of making someone uncomfortable, even fearful, because I don't interact in the socially sanctioned ways. I regard this as irresponsible. Nobody owes me their company, a job, never mind romance, but rotting in my den is not a life I want to be living.

NBC Nightly News mentioned a family spokesperson said he had a form of autism but did not mention anything about the denial.

It is not an either or situation, we as a society should do both. It is not a denial reaction, it is a fear reaction based on experience. If Aspergers starts getting mentioned often with mass shooters it is going to directly or indirectly hurt many if not most on the spectrum. If there is a question as with Rodgers case if the person was on the spectrum it should be raised without those of us who raised it being called denialists. It is right to try and get people to understand the good as well as the deficits. It would not only be good for us but for society as a whole if we are more freely allowed to use our strengths. It is not right to allow the most negative slant on Aspergers to be put out there because at least we are getting mentioned.

I'm glad you're so consciously aware of your feelings, it means that you understand and embrace that part of your life.

Look, I don't have answers, it was a rhetorical question, a self critique to an indifferent society. When someone who is starving steals a chicken, it is morally wrong of course, but people may feel sympathy because they know how it feels to be hungry. When people commit suicide because they felt terribly lonely, the guy was just "insane". And now when a mass shooter goes to a killing spree, the guy was a "monster and the parents must be awful people". It seems to me that we're all doing something wrong here as a society.

I feel that a lot more could be done by properly counselling families, so that they can act right away when they notice a decline or negative symptoms in a loved's behaviour.

I hear/read many young adults, and adults with AS who complain they can't have a girl. But when you dig a little bit into their stories, actually what they can't get is the gorgeous blonde prom queen, and that seemed to be the case with Elliot Rodger. I think (and that goes for everybody in or out of the spectrum), what matters in life is developing connections (physical or intellectual or both) with GOOD people is a lot more important.

What I love about my husband is that he knows me more than anyone else in the world. I've gotten lost in San Francisco without a cell phone once, and he knew where to find me, because he learned the way I think so well, that we don't need to communicate much with words; I think that kind of connection I'll never have it with a NT. Anyway, my point is that maybe you shouldn't be so preoccupied about people LIKING you, or people owing you company. Actually, I still think my husband is pretty much an as*hole, and he hasn't changed much since I've met him But I respect him deeply. So maybe you should try to establish an intellectual bond with people.

As I said, I don't claim to have the answers but I'm a believer in people.

Asperger's has to be the best marketin'ed condition in the DSM Einstein, Mozart, Tesla, Newton, Da Vinci... I rarely find a person in the spectrum who complains about being put in the same bag with those geniuses. But throw the name of Adam Lanza or Ted Kaczynski and you will find a lot of people trying to dismiss them as "true aspies".

On the contrary, schizophrenia is a condition with a very bad reputation. Several movies were made about schizophrenic killers, some are based on real life stories. But some schizophrenics are outstanding mathematician such as John Nash, whose life has been so interesting to write a biography and make a movie about him. I don't see many schizophrenics denying that violent people do exist under their own spectrum umbrella.

A condition is simply a label doctors put on a group of symptoms, it does not define a person. I understand that you don't want to deal with the bad association that implies a person with AS and someone who commits such atrocities. But the fact of denying that they exist is not going to change the reality either. We have to be aware of what is going on before we can begin to understand why it happened and what can be done to prevent it in the future.

i read the manifesto (it would actually be hilarious if it wasn't for the ending), the pathological sense of entitlement seemed like the main problem. and it was completely non-sensical. he expected women to just show up, date him and have sex, even though he didn't like talking to them, didn't like sex and didn't like them! wanted to kill people yet still though he was a gentleman/perfect human.

wouldn't autism be more inappropriate sexual expressions maybe? or violence that happened relatively quickly and again more of an inappropriate level of anger to a single event, not something fantasied about over years?

although i suspect there was some sexual trauma backstory because it seemed odd to profess that much revulsion to sex and still want it. kinda mutually exclusive no? and now that i think about it, he had the full names of all the boys he knew, parents names, but hardly any girls names. no girls he had a crush on or even actresses that he fantasied about, it was just nameless blond women. no video game characters even.

tbh, i don't know a lot about the creepy obsession side of autism because it's not pleasant to read about so i could be wrong.

so maybe he had autism spectrum, but talk about missing the forest for the trees. it's like, if someone has gun shot wound to the head, do you check their cholesterol, prescribe statins to lower them 1st and then blame too high cholesterol when they die?

i dunno maybe the pick up artist, mens rights forums convinced him he was entitled and he took on that persona. i guess autistic people can be suggestible and not do some important assumption checking, but i dunno. going from there to homicide is something different. i mean, i think that murderous impulse is something separate and it would have happened regardless.

i don't know because i don't have murderous impulses, really it's never seemed like an appealing thing. but i suspect they are way more common among "normal" people than they let on, so of course they want to "other" it. then again, i really can't understand how you think you are entitled to another persons body, life or possessions either. so it just reads as wacko to me.

sad.

I see people here complaining that the genius stereotype causing them problems because they are not gifted all the time. People do complain on a fairly regular basis here about the diagnosis of Einstein, Gates etc. Overdiagnosis is a regular topic for discussion here. The "Is Aspergers trendy" thread is up to 5 pages now. In January I started a thread asking people if they knew any Aspie wannabees. It went for 4 pages. I started that thread because I had seen so many posters talking about it.

We might have great marketing but where it counts 20% on the spectrum are employed so we don't have such a good actual reputation. I don't see where an association with spree killers will help with the weird, odd reputation.

Worry about group reputation is not an aspie thing. You see it here because it is an Autism forum. Because schizophrenics have an unfairly negative reputation does not mean we should not fight to keep our reputation from becoming that of spree killers. I don't visit schizophrenia sites but I imagine they complained about that movie, wonder if a person named as schizophrenic really is one, say "oh no here we go again" want a more balanced image etc. I am Jewish and I do know that Jewish people at the time of the economic collapse worried about a backlash because Madeoff and a bunch of bankers involved were Jewish. That despite the media made no mention of religion of the greedy bastards who did and are continuing to cause so much misery and the actual generally upper level position Jews hold in the U.S.. Some said they did not follow the religion so you can say that was denial I guess.

As has been pointed out Spree killing is mostly an American male thing that has spread to other parts of the world. American males in general have not and won't be discriminated against because it is impractical for several reasons "Odd, Weird" AS people will be, so it is important that the most negative stereotypes do not take hold.

I have not seen anybody here say Apsies spree killers do not exist. It is right to inquire if a person named by a family lawyer as but not a family friend as aspie is really one. It is right to point out that most aspie are not killers but usually victims. That is not saying Aspies can not be spree killers. Right now the emphasis is naturally on Rodgers.

I'll try to give my opinion on your thread if i find it.

Now, I think it's wrong to assume AS people are just "odd, weird". I see it all the time with child psychologists thinking my son is just a harmless sweet child that just happens to be "odd", like he's some kind of cute baby koala. I'm married to a person who can barely speak more than 15 words a day, and people tend to think he's just "shy". That kind of thinking may save you from "discrimination", but it won't provide autistic people with the right support either.

Asperger's is a pervasive condition, by definition pervasive implies a negative connotation of an unwelcome influence or physical effect. I'm very aware that AS also comes with many strengths and positive traits, but it seems to me that the pervasive symptoms are downplayed because they have autism and not other condition such as schizophrenia.

If not properly supported, ASD folks can become dangerous to themselves or to other people. It's important to provide people with the right support, even if they look "very high functioning" or if they seem to have "almost a normal life".

Blaming autism is exactly like racism, gender discrimination and homophobia. What's the difference between blaming school shooters on autism or other forms of neurodiversity (like mental illness) and blaming suicide bombers on Islam and Middle Eastern culture, blaming child molestation on LGBT people (believe it or not... they used to say gay guys were pedophiles) or blaming gang violence on African American and Hispanic youth cultures?

The first is considered marginally okay by society, but the other examples are obviously recognized as the media bias they are. We have to let people see that there is no hierarchy of oppression.

Avocation for the correct supports is needed. And trying not to let false negative stereotypes make things even harder is also needed. That is why I said it is not an either or situation but both need to be done. "odd" is a negative word, the psychs should just say he says less then 15 words a day. If the people providing the supports think of autistic traits just in the negative and the Autistics think of themselves in the negative the correct support are much less likely to work.

Yes. Unfortunatly since the vast majority of such killers usually take their own lives afterwards, society is left finding trivial or irrelevant things to blame.

I agree that there is a problem with the media and it's relation between Autism/AS and Psychopathic tendencies. I agree that the public needs to be informed. But we start to disagree on the approach. You say that Gay Rights Activist have made their point by saying that anyone who disagrees is a homophobic and that Feminist make their point by saying that anyone disagrees is a sexist. These maybe politically driven arguments but they only create a huge divide in the public on the issue. What the Gay Rights Activist need to do is openly accept that their behavior is not a healthy but that they are willing to embrace it anyway. Same for women who want to be accepted in ?The Man?s? industry. They need to accept that due to biological limitation they will be different from men. By accepting their limitations and still working hard towards their goals I believe in the long run they would have better acceptance into the general public. The last thing we need is to put a fear on the public forcing people to accept Autism/AS. That may fly politically but it will create even more resentment in the long run.

You know this reminds me of that Lady Gaga song - Born this Way. Gay Advocates have used that argument countless times to make their point to be accepted. However has it ever been considered that just because you were born a certain way doesn't make it right? We as Aspie's are born this way. But I'm not going to go out to the public and force them to accept my quirky behavior. I will work to improve myself to integrate into society. Although I may not be able to completely be normal people will notice my efforts to fit in and I would be more socially accepted.

I read in a book on body languages that we as human beings make sub-conscious efforts to develop rapport with our peers. In doing so we mimic behaviors. This is so ingrained in our DNA that even our physical appearance will ever so slightly change to the environment around us.

Now I do think government should come into play in policies however not in the public perception. I do agree with Gay Advocates in that policies should not discriminate on preference or predisposed position. I do not believe that the government should engineer public opinion by giving special treatments though.