We need to encourage excuse making for Aspies

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What you mention about patience and understanding is what I'd consider appropriate accomodation...also though I would not be opposed to things like letting an autistic kid take a test in a room alone or have longer if needed and depending on how much stress they can handle maybe they sometimes need a time to maybe get away and de-stress....I see those sorts of things as reasonable and technically it would be accomodation all that really means is help for ones difficulties. Also though I graduated though I struggle quite a bit with math but some people with autism have much more difficulty and I could see why they may not be able to effectively graduate from highschool.

Also I did not create any self fullfilling prophecy....I pushed myself to graduate highschool which I was able to do even after that event that caused my PTSD, then I went to college with every intention of getting a degree. And as I was working on that my untreated PTSD started getting worse and that combined with my already existing depression/anxiety issues got to be too much...I re-attempted college and was still unable to make it because being on a school campus causes me lots of anxiety and panic also I've developed issues concentrating and focusing on reading since I developed that. Its more like I tried school, tried to work mental crap interfered on top of the various issues that come with autism so I've had to go on disability. Its more like I tried to get somewhere and I have disabling mental problems which have interfered greatly and I've had to accept that....still working on getting past the blaming it on myself. Even now though I am working on getting help with my issues and am planning to find some volunteering or something useful to do even if I am currently unable to work and/or attend college.....I didn't keep telling myself I would fail, I kept telling myself I wouldn't let the stupid PTSD or anything else hold me back and I'd succeed at school or finding work and it hasn't worked out because that is what happens when you have disabling mental problems on top of high functioning autism(which is what I suppose I have).

Difficulties with learning is hardly the only problem people with autism have...there are sensory issues, communication issues, trouble with expressing certain feelings or correctly identifying them, the potential for meltdowns ect. Also if a parapalegic is in a wheelchair and needs ramps to get up and down....then no they don't need to 'adapt' they aren't going to just up and become un-parapalegic and start walking anymore than someone with autism or any other mental condition is just going to magically recover and not have any impairments from it anymore. Society needs to adapt to the fact some people have disabilities and/or difficulties which put them at a disadvantage and provide appropriate accomodation....otherwise I'd want no part in such a society. Its not wallowing in self pity to recognize you have a condition that impairs functioning and acknowledge that fact, though there is nothing wrong with feeling self pity it happens to everyone even happy people if something bad happens and it really upsets them everyone feels sorry for them self sometimes I bet though wallowing in self pity all the time is not useful........however with depression one symptom can be getting stuck in that sort of mindset which sucks. Also the world is the world it doesn't accommodate anyone my argument is a society full of people should accommodate the people who are at a disadvantage.

Once again I am on disability because I cannot function well enough for work I haven't fooled myself into thinking I can't work...at this point there is not a job I can go get or keep though through volunteering maybe I can learn some potential work skills or just skills that are good to have in general. Its not letting a couple failed job experiences do anything....more I've gotten professional diagnoses and professional medical opinions that i should not work due to the way all my mental issues effect me and I need to focus on treatment for those job stress would be detrimental to my already crappy mental health.

Also I came to post my opinion you're help comes off as dismissing that I have actually been diagnosed as having significant disability and am on SSI due to that...so I appreciate if you are trying to help and all but I didn't really even post in here for advice just to state my opinion and reasons why I think something like autism can cause significant impairment in functioning. Also I think you are misunderstanding quite a bit....I do have severe depression issues so yeah a lot of times I feel incapable of life in general, worthless, self pitying and like I can't so much as get up and take a shower in the morning let alone go on any longer in life(actually that is usually how I feel every morning before I am able to drag myself out of bed and attempt to start my day and not feel crappy) so I struggle with that but I put quite a bit of effort into trying to fight it and get on with my days as best I can realistically I can't hold a job....thats not me having a negative attitude and telling myself I can't do anything and instead of focusing on that I more try to think of things I can do such as work on getting proper treatment for my issues I've tried meds and therapy which haven't really helped so far so I still need to try and find something that helps, then I want to try and volunteer or something like that so yeah there are things I can do and have goals of doing....but I still sometimes feel like i will most certainly fail or that i can't possibly accomplish anything but unfortunately its not something i can just turn off that sort of stuff is much of the time still in the back of my mind even when I am trying to think more positively. I tell myself I can do things, or in my mind try and come up with ideas of how to do certain things but that depression bit of my mind tells me I can't or that my ideas are stupid not literally like I don't actually hear it, but I guess my point is those aren't the thoughts I myself am putting into my brain.

My main regret is not dropping out of high school, or even elementary school for that matter....If I had known what years of bullying and ostracism at school would do to my mental health I would have been out of there ASAP. But I thought I could just be 'tough' and just take it and get my damn diploma and then be free of it with no real lasting damage because I had 'made it'. Though to be fair suffering that at school was not the only damaging factor in my life.

Wow, that sounds like extreme "dumbing down" more than simple accommodation. If that's what accommodations are, I disagree too.

I had thought accommodations were things like giving someone a little more time to take a test because of processing issues, or giving them a quiet room to take a test in, or removing things that might cause sensory problems during a test. But the Aspie or person being accommodated would still have to learn the same things in order to graduate.

For instance, accommodations for physical issues on a job, which several people I've worked with have been given. These are for physical problems like carpal tunnel syndrome or back problems, but I'd think accommodations for Asperger's would work the same way. For the physical conditons, the person is given a special chair, or a footstool or a special kind of keyboard for carpal tunnel. However, these people are expected to do the same job and same amount of work as everyone else in their position, and are held to the same standards.

To me, that's what real accomodation for someone with autism/Asperger's would be-- being expected to do the same job/pass the same classes, but with things in place that would address whatever issues they might have that might make it harder to do that even if they have the ability and try their hardest to learn/do the job.

I'd thought the reason behind accommodation was that people who have all the capability and desire to do the job or do well in classes, but who might have a physical or neurological problem that might get in the way, something that could be "accommodated" by making a change or changes to to the person's working or school environment. Not giving up and saying the person can't do the job or can't learn anything than the most simple, basic stuff. What you described sounds like people wrongly believing that you and the others in your classes weren't capable of learning more than basic stuff. It doesn't sound like they were trying to accommodate you---more like they were writing you off without even trying. That's a really stupid and wrong way to teach people who may have learning differences. Sorry to hear you had to go through that kind of s**t.

Please be trolling.

Well said, ASPartOfMe!

However, I feel that an inadvertent aspect of IDEA is de-ablizing and curebie culture. While I totally support IDEA and it's power to educate people outside the mainstream, the power remains with the mainstream. The Mainstream is so disfunctional and demoralizing because they remain the gatekeepers of conformity and conformity doesn't work for us.

The original poster could be a survivor of this curebie culture or just a troll.

Nothing wrong with being an effeminate guy. But being effeminate is not at all related to being a whiner who claims their life is worse than someone with cancer or in a concentration camp, just because they don't have a girlfriend and get picked on by people.

Get a sense of perspective. Living with AS is a lot better than being in a concentration camp or having cancer.

AS people are discriminated against, and it's not fair. It's also something we can and should fight, rather than just whining and asking for pity. Things won't change unless people stand up, stop crying and get mad instead.

If you need a few extra minutes on a test, you can probably get an accommodation. Have you asked an advocate to help you with applying for that sort of thing? My job as a parent has been getting those sorts of things in place for my son, and I've been pretty darn successful at it. But as he gets older he wants me to ask less and less: he wants to test out his strengths and weaknesses in the real world, because that is the one he will have to live in as an adult.

Here is the thing:

The world will give you support when you need it, if you can find the right way to ask, but it will not do things for you. At some point, we all have to face the same realities, regardless of our disabilities. I am hearing impaired. There are things I simply cannot do. But I am make my life applying the skills I DO have, and doing the things I CAN do.

Surely, there are many things you can do that the NT sitting next to you cannot. Having different strengths and weaknesses is part of life.

The problem isn't your weaknesses so much as that you haven't figured out how to work around them, and to ask others for assistance in working around them.

What is the issue that makes you need more time? Processing speed? Dysgraphia? Is this an issue that will carry over into a future job, or one that relates specifically to your education?

If it is a permanent processing speed problem (which both my son and I have), you may as well accept right now that the world runs on a clock, and the best way to work-around your slow speed is to be better at what you do than the faster guy next to you. That has been my life: I can't do anything on budget, and I can't exactly ask my boss to change the budgets, since there is only so much the clients are willing to pay him. So I contribute my value by having a wider breathe of knowledge and achieving more accuracy in everything I do.

Certainly, people telling you to "man up" isn't going to help. But don't ask the world to bend to you: try to meet it somewhere in the middle. Show some willingness to figure out what you can do to get there, and the world will return the favor.

You may need someone to help you figure things out, but it is your fault if you see a problem and just sit and wait for someone to solve it for you. You could ask someone for help, and I realize that by itself is an issue because you may not know the right way to ask. So back it further and ask for help learning how to ask.

As for dating ... well, I don't know much about you but can tell you that a negative attitude is a pretty big turn off, and that might be a bigger part of your problem than anything else you have mentioned. Perhaps just set the whole concept off to the side until you've gotten a better grasp on how to deal with some of your other issues. Sometimes we have to recognize that we just aren't "ready" for dating, even if every hormone in our bodies is insisting it is something we need to do.

I am sorry that you are so frustrated, and have had such a rough time of things recently. It can get better, but blaming the world won't help - although maybe venting about it (as you just have), will. Give yourself some time to release your negative emotions (in a safe and appropriate way, of course), then do some things for yourself that will make you feel better about life, and then see if you can find someone to help you dig back in and get the supports you need to be successful.

Norah, you are right, that is the accommodations should be and what I've seen with my son: support to move him onto the next level and, eventually, not need the help anymore. Designed to fill in a gap. Some are temporary, some are permanent; my son's accommodation allowing him to type everything is permanent.

Unfortunately, schools are run by individuals, and not everyone knows how to support and help, and not everyone knows how to see and value the unique gifts in any one individual. Parents have to fight sometimes for schools to give their kids what they need to thrive; sometimes the schools don't see the gifts that can be nurtured and brought out or understand what it would take to do so.

I made a decision, for example, that my son would type and never even know voice recognition software existed. The offer to use the later was made, but I felt that would create too strong a reliance on technology, and that he COULD learn to type. And he did learn to type; no regrets on that. Sometimes it is not a good thing when a school district is too generous

Obey1sh1n0b1, I am sorry you had teachers that did not believe in you and push you to fulfill your potential. But that isn't an accommodations issue; it is a human one. Sometimes people don't understand what someone else is capable of, whether it is because they aren't looking, or because they are burdened by incorrect assumptions. It happens. You adapt and move forward.

Okay, the problem with what you say here is that what you say is that it is not falsifiable. Sweetleaf does not believe she can handle school and she says she has tried and pushed herself to do it.

What if there is something about her other than her attitude that causes her to not succeed in school? How do you logically tell either way? What are the objective tests that one can do and take to tell what can do and what one can't do? You say that it is her attitude that is holding her back right? If we did this in a scientific way then this is your alternate hypothesis right? The null hypothesis is something other than her attitude is holding her back. Is it ever possible for the null hypothesis to hold up and the alternate hypothesis ever be falsified?

Here is something that I've written here.

http://whyifailedinamerica1.wordpress.c ... urs-truly/

Lol not to mention I went with the intentions of getting a degree, it didn't work out I could keep crawling back going further in debt but its really not worth the stress for one, not to mention aside from the troubles having ptsd with the aspergers causes with college I don't even have any interest in a 'degree' anymore so it would be a rather pointless and stupid way to waste my time.

Thank you for speaking up, KOR.

Can you prove that everyone and anyone can do this without any assistance provided by society?




Is American society going to help her to overcome her problem? Do you believe that it should? How do you know that all problems are always surmountable? Are there problems that may have no solutions?




The problem with this is that it says nothing. Maybe instead of giving hackneyed advice such as this why not give practical suggestions?




How did you learn to navigate the social waters w/o anyone providing you instruction or did anyone provide instruction? What methods and techniques did you use to learn these things? There are details missing here.





If they're the ones with the problem then why does she have to grow a thick skin? Is she the one with the problem or are they the ones with the problem or is it both? Which is it? To me, it seems that what you're saying is inconsistent.






I have responded here already.



Again, How do you know that anyone and everyone is able to adapt? We have people in prison, institutions, death by suicide, etc. It seems like we have people who couldn't adapt or find solutions.

He adapted: http://rt.com/usa/oregon-man-bank-robbe ... hcare-126/




How does she do both?



Prove both of your assertions to be true and prove that one is able to survive with any job. Prove that one can acquire any skill set one wants.



Well, how does one know for sure whether one can hold any job at all or not? What are the objective tests and what is the rubric one can use to test this against himself or herself? Like I said before the problem with your reasoning is that it is not falsifiable. What if Sweetleaf is right about the things she says? How do we prove or disprove her assertions in an objective and scientific manner? If this is similar to the concept of the placebo effect then how do we factor her attitude out of the equation to determine what she can do and not do in an objective manner?



Again, how do you determine if it truthfully is her attitude or something other than her attitude?

I find this an interesting question. If we remove the absolutes (everyone and anyone) we could frame it in terms of a high percentage of success. IMHO, assistance by "society" is our downfall.

If a child has a hearing impairment, a Deaf person helps them learn to navigate the world, and the same with a visually impaired child. These children learn that they are different and require specific accommodations, but they mentored (and so not told they are not broken, which is how the mainstream sees them). "Society", and I will term it the mainstream, is the gatekeeper of conformity. It is my theory that they have caused distress in our autistic children, from which our youth struggle for years to recover. I think I was lucky to be raised by autistic parents in an autistic family at a time when schools were not mandated to deal with kids like us. I was in an inclusive environment that I had some personal control over even if it was only to shut down. If the mainstream told me lies about what it means to be autistic (and few had heard of it then), I didn't hear them.




The mainstream needs to respect us, but respect is earned, not given. By studying successful civil rights movements, we can do this intelligently. But we will need to develop solidarity. BTW, mainstream tends to fear physical disability (wheelchairs, blindness, etc) far less than a "mental" disability. Its very different.




I see you both as right. Being told to be a different person than you are (e.g. "man up) is emotional abuse. In our current culture, implying a male is feminine is a major insult (which is also wrong-headed misogynism and offensive to women).

However, continuing to suffer over past sins only hurts the victim again and again while the perp is oblivious. Its like keeping leftovers in the fridge even when they are rotting and stinking because you are mad at the cook. Throw them out, clean your fridge and start enjoying the fresh air. Use any means necessary to forgive the perps - for your own good. The past actually does not exist and neither does the future. Only this instant does. You own it; make the most of it.




I learned by reading books and watching movies (sitcoms don't work, they will only get you in trouble), alternating with trial and error. I like movies so when my language blanks out I have a visual. I also used to read Dear Abby Miss Manners. They are particularly straightforward. The nice thing about social etiquette is you have a protocol to fall back on.



The mainstream is not only the majority in power, but also in numbers. They have no pressure to become aware of our differences. It is a good strategy to find an autism forum on which to safely share, but this one has people who are harsh. We will not progress in acceptance when we attack each other. SOLIDARITY RULES




I *act* according to the expectations of the workplace because I independently support myself. I am totally autistic at home. Please don't become normal , just think of the workplace as a stage and you are a character actor in the play. Learn your lines. Perfect your technique. Then go home and get out of character. Be you!





Employment is rarely about experience, competence in, or knowledge about performing the job description. It is all about performing socially at work. The competent person will be fired over a dolt, if the dolt is accepted by the mainstream and the competent person isn't. Autistics get fired for poor acting skills, not poor job skills. It is best if you can develop an informant in the workplace to give you feedback and heads-ups as needed. The trouble is that you can't trust most mainstreamers to be loyal. They appear to turn on a dime and throw you under the bus.

I was a ferocious child (in a time when one could physically defend oneself on the playground) so no one messed with me. If anyone verbally abused me, I was either oblivious or actually flattered by their taunts. The only place I have ever been bullied is at the workplace. It is typically a passive aggressive personality who is adept at sabotage. If they were overt, they would not get away with it. Work is for independence, but its a jungle of snakes and one needs to navigate carefully and wisely.



There is no reason for us to dissect each other or to impose on another. Maybe she needs a good rant before getting back in the ring. Maybe shinning a light on her strengths would help. Cube, you are obviously a competent person who has figured out a lot of things. What are your solutions to the situations she described? How do you succeed? I steal all good ideas, and you seem to have a nice collection of them

Or maybe like I've said, I need to work on my mental issues and becoming more stable over all before I think about going the employment route instead of the SSI I got approved for. I have more than social difficulties on jobs and/or going to school, and as much as I hate it and it makes me feel pathetic I cannot handle much stress at all otherwise I risk becoming suicidal its difficult to explain but either way if I could work that's what I would be doing, because SSI sucks.

These are the accommodations I would like the world to make, please:

No more vehicle sirens
No money - just trade of goods and services
No customer service slaves wih tired, under payed smiles
Humane treatment of food animals
More silence - the world is so noisy, I don't know how anyone can stand it
An end to advertising and the false expectations it creates
No more stupid uncomfortable bras
Oh, and, of course, the legalization of marijuana

I guess not all of those have to do with autism, but what the heck.

Oh, I looked into the long distance running issue and found this:
http://blogs.independent.co.uk/2012/08/06/the-secret-of-east-african-running-success/

I think the Ethiopian and Kenyan success in long-distance running as to do with:

Altitude,

and

Attitude.