Autistic advocates / self-advocates question

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I didn't include the word 'entire'. You've added that yourself.

I think I'm concluding from this that what you're looking for is not a cure for autism after all, otherwise you would understand how a personality would change, I think. There are a long list of traits that come under autism. Of course, if you remove or change that many traits you're going to be left with a different person. Heck, changing even one or two can make a huge difference.

Another strawman is that a cure would prevent autistic people from being born ! ! ! Prenatal tests for Down's syndrome has not prevented children with Down's from being born, so that is not even a valid reasoning. Parents and families have the right to know if their unborn child may be autistic. IMO, the worst abuses against autistics are perpetrated by those who do not have the ability to care for them. Some people are not fit to be parents. So by opposing prenatal tests for autism, you are doing some autistics a bad turn by allowing them to be born into families that will be so overwhelmed by the care needed that they will turn on the very souls that they are supposed to love and protect and cherish. I am positive that is not at all your intention ?

...(trimming fat of post)

The final strawman is attempting to prevent a cure in those who are far more severely impacted than you are and lacking even basic communication skills by insisting that they should make their own decisions (knowing perfectly well that they probably can't speak for themselves) ! ! This does sound like something that anyone who actually wants to improve the quality of life of MFAs and LFAs would assert.

I don't claim to speak for non-verbal autistics. Why do you, OP?

You don't but ASAN does.

But why do you?

Why shouldn't I ? If ASAN can speak for all autistics in every part of the world and decry a cure for even those that cannot survive with their severe disabilities in countries with little to no benefit or support systems in place, then i can speak for my loved one with moderate autism. Everything is not about what Ari Ne'eman and American ASAN wants and what he and other American aitustics do not want. Their propaganda about unicorns, fairies and autism in benefit rich coubtries does not match the ground realities faced by autistics.. say, in Indonesia or Cambodia or Congo for whom a cure is a desperate need for survival past their parents' time.

Why shouldn't I ? If ASAN can speak for all autistics in every part of the world and decry a cure for even those that cannot survive with their severe disabilities in countries with little to no benefit or support systems in place, then i can speak for my loved one with moderate autism. Everything is not about what Ari Ne'eman and American ASAN wants and what he and other American aitustics do not want. Their propaganda about unicorns, fairies and autism in benefit rich coubtries does not match the ground realities faced by autistics.. say, in Indonesia or Cambodia or Congo for whom a cure is a desperate need for survival past their parents' time.

Why shouldn't I ? If ASAN can speak for all autistics in every part of the world and decry a cure for even those that cannot survive with their severe disabilities in countries with little to no benefit or support systems in place, then i can speak for my loved one with moderate autism. Everything is not about what Ari Ne'eman and American ASAN wants and what he and other American aitustics do not want. Their propaganda about unicorns, fairies and autism in benefit rich coubtries does not match the ground realities faced by autistics.. say, in Indonesia or Cambodia or Congo for whom a cure is a desperate need for survival past their parents' time.

Well, good for you for overcoming your challenges as a child but you do realize that there are many LFAs and MFAs who will never be able to live independent lives or even communicate due to the severity of needs ?? What do you propose to do for these people ??

Another strawman is that a cure would prevent autistic people from being born ! ! ! Prenatal tests for Down's syndrome has not prevented children with Down's from being born, so that is not even a valid reasoning. Parents and families have the right to know if their unborn child may be autistic. IMO, the worst abuses against autistics are perpetrated by those who do not have the ability to care for them. Some people are not fit to be parents. So by opposing prenatal tests for autism, you are doing some autistics a bad turn by allowing them to be born into families that will be so overwhelmed by the care needed that they will turn on the very souls that they are supposed to love and protect and cherish. I am positive that is not at all your intention ?

I am also addressing your accusations about me not wanting to improve the quality of autistic people's lives. Show me proof (not ASAN's propoganda about how autism is such a special snowflake) that "curing it" or remediating SIBs or SLI would entail "rewiring a brain" and changing an entire personality ?? And even if this waa the case, so what ? Would you rather that people continued to hurt themselves and be unable to live independent lives, in preference to not having their "personalities" changed ? Why is your personality more important than your ability to live a life devoid of aggression or communication or language impairments ?

The final strawman is attempting to prevent a cure in those who are far more severely impacted than you are and lacking even basic communication skills by insisting that they should make their own decisions (knowing perfectly well that they probably can't speak for themselves) ! ! This does NOT sound like something that anyone who actually wants to improve the quality of life of MFAs and LFAs would assert.

My point is this. Many MFAs and LFAs will never lead independent and autonomous lives due to the severity of their autism. Many - esp those living in countries without a strong social / government system in place - will be bankrupt, homeless and abandoned after their parents' lifetimes. Still others may undergo horrific abuses in overcrowded and understaffed "facilities" but may never be able to speak of their suffering or escape these places to live independent lives. For these people, everything that can be done to help them reach their potential must be done, even if it means rewiring their brains. Denying them a cure because a subset of those with mild autism living in benefits- rich countries complain that their personalities will change or that autistic children will be aborted is a travesty. No one wants to be abused, no one. Therefore, it is my opinion that LFAs and MFAs would want to reach their full potential and live fulfilling lives. If a cure is the only answer, then cure them. You can always personally refuse a cure ans personally produce all the autistic babies you want. No one will stop you, so please don't prevent those less able than you from accessing a better life for themselves. Or, how about you adopt a few MFAs and LFAs yourself and care for them for the rest of your lives ? Put your money where your mouth is, and all that jazz.

Firstly, ASAN doesn't paint autism as rainbows, sunshine, and butterflies. It does make it a point that autism is not a terrible, end-of-the-world diagnosis and that having it does not make one a burden or suffering.

Secondly, it would be a heck of a lot

more helpful to spend money on setting up support systems here and in other countries for autistics of all functioning levels rather than on some slim chance of finding a cure (if you ever do find a cure that can rewire someone's brain, let me know and we'll see if we can cure "NTism".) But in the meanwhile, what does trying to find a cure do to help autistics now?

And they know this how ? How many MFAs or LFAs does Ari Ne'eman and his bandwagon of HFAs personally care for ??



If trying to find a cure is not a big deal then why are you so defensive about it ?? And why doesn't ASAN put its money where its mouth is and work on setting up that support system worldwide instead of wasting their time on their anti-cure propaganda ? If a rock solid support system is in place, the quest for a cure becomes superfluous. Priorities and all that good sruff., you know ?

As for curing NT-ism, gee, I wouldn't know. You are the doctor, you tell me.

Oh, BTW, are you sure I am an NT ?

And Lordfakename, if you cannot debate my position about the plight of autistics in not-so-first-world countries, then say so rather than attacking me personally. Ad hominem attacks don't seem to be carried our in "good faith", either.

This isn't just aboyt ASAN, this is about all anti-cure HFAs who seek to speak for all autistics

Is there any possibility of you changing your mind at the end of this?

End of this conversation about the cure for autism ? Of course, if you can tell me why some HFAs are anti-remediating the more negative aspects of severe autism, which is really my only concern. I am also disappointed that people will not attempt to talk about autistics living outside North America and Europe whose lives will be destroyed once their parents are gone, as many countries lack the ability to support them. You (and the good doctor) seem a lot more reasonable than some of the others, so, yes, I am willing to have a fact-based discussion with you about these issue.

Low-functioning versus high-functioning Autism

Some people with Autism have successful careers and a normal family life while others barely manage to take care of themselves in any meaningful way. As such, Autists are typically put into one of two different categories, depending on how self-sufficient they are : Low-functioning an High-functioning Autists.

Low-functioning Autists usually have and underdeveloped Reptilian complex and/or Paleomammalian complex alongside an atypically developed Neomammalian complex. This means that they fail to have sufficient strengths to compensate for their weaknesses. When most people hear the word “Autism”, people usually think of Low-functioning Autists, however they’re far from representative of the Autistic community at large.

High-functioning Autists typically have not just a normally developed Reptilian complex and/or Paleomammalian complex but often even a superior Reptilian complex and/or Paleomammalian complex to compensate for the failure of the Neomammalian complex. That means that they are not just as good at dealing with certain problems as “Neurotypical” people, but actually far superior.

Genetics definitely play an important role in deciding whether an Autistic individual is Low-functioning or High-functioning. However, other factors play a role as well. For example, how you educate an Autistic child plays a far greater role in the development of that child’s brain functions, compared with a “Neurotypical” child.

Raising a child with Autism successfully is all about teaching that child how to think in patterns by feeding them information in the form of venn diagrams, line graphs, tabular data, tree structures or other visual patterns that help them see how everything is correlated. It’s all about teaching them to recognize similar patterns themselves by observing the world around them and comparing it to what they already know.

Algebra, programming logic, neuropsychology and sociology are fields of study that can help children even at an early age to move from basic pattern recognition to advanced pattern recognition and can help them integrate their pattern recognition skills in their daily life.

Think of a child with Autism as a robot born without instructions that you need to program yourself before it’s of any use. The more efficiently you and others program that little robot, the more likely it is you who will fall behind on your kid rather than the other way around. A lot depends on his processing speed and memory and by implementing efficient pattern recognition, you significantly reduce strain in these areas.

Some might consider it offensive to compare someone with Autism with a robot, yet it’s really not intended to be that way. Autism really is a lot more like the mind of a computer than the mind of a “Neurotypical” person and it really can be programmed in a myriad of ways, making the Autistic brain far more diverse, far more flexible but also far more volatile than that of “Neurotypical” people.

The worst thing you could do to an Autistic child, is feed it loads and loads of raw disconnected data; feed it a lot of data without structuring it or correlating it to previously taught data. The result thereof is that the mind becomes a maze of raw data scattered across one’s memory and remembering how to do even the simplest things becomes very difficult as there are no directions in the maze.

Nevertheless, it is important to understand that the distinction between Low-functioning and High-functioning is rather arbitrary and not always obvious to make. For example, some people with Autism remain mute for many years, yet still manage to develop normal language skills later on and even become successful engineers.

Source

The following in an excerpt from Why the Tech Industry Needs More Autism that addresses the difference between so-called low-functioning and high-functioning variations of Autism :