How would a country run by autistics and aspergians look?

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Aristophanes
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17 Apr 2016, 10:51 am

aspiesavant wrote:
To quote from one of my favorite movies :

Land of the Blind (2006) wrote:
Under the old regime man exploited man, but since the revolution it's the other way around.


Another man's freedom is always another man's tyranny. That's why I don't believe that a society ruled exclusively by even the most Spock-like Aspies inevitably leads to greater prosperity than the system we have today or the systems we've had in the past...

Image


Well, as you point out here, it's all cyclical. That being said, I say f**k prosperity because it's merely an illusion: one person's prosperity is another's misery. Now if you were to say sustainability, that's an entirely different matter that I could get on board with.



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17 Apr 2016, 1:35 pm

But, if the less prosperous person starves to death, it’s all prosperity for the remaining one!


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18 Apr 2016, 1:25 am

I once participated in a movie night run by a local autism support group.

First, we had to come up with a multiple page constitution defining the purpose of the night and setting the bylaws.

Then, we had to submit all movies we might be interested in watching, with brief summaries.

Next, we went through a selection process similar to voir dire in criminal law, with some movies being struck for cause (too much cursing, too violent, etc), and everyone in the group having a set number of peremptory strikes to remove movies from consideration for any reason at all.

I don't think we ever actually watched any movies.


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Film2240
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18 Apr 2016, 5:16 pm

Its nice for me to see some very interesting views,especially from the most recent posters on here.Prosperity has its limits as it is fundamentally done at the expense of someone else,meaning if one person gets wealthier,another person will also get poor unless we have either a fairer wealth redistribution system or we change the economic model so we stop focusing on 'growth' but more on sustainable development (some people use the term a 'zero growth' model to describe this).

I don't want to get too involved in politics here as I know that I have very strong political views and I can't always handle debates well due to this (fear of being trolled/facing frequent trolls on social media for this) and I simply wanted to focus on the mechanics of a society run by people with autism rather than the political side of things,as I believe that politics gets in the way to achieving key goals sometimes.

I have many theories about a new society as well as the various models written on my laptop somewhere (but can't seem to find the research papers and documents though)



aspiesavant
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18 Apr 2016, 5:19 pm

The movie that made me give up on politics :



TessSpoon
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18 Apr 2016, 7:12 pm

Funny, I have been throwing around such in an idea in my head for a while now, as part of a little worldbuilding project. Though it's a country that would mainly benefit those on the higher-functioning end of the spectrum.

I imagine that it wouldn't be too different from a real country, except for some key differences:

1 - Social subtleties would be taught in schools. At least in my experience, being unaware of social norms is the main reason Aspergers people suffer. If the people were taught etiquette on both the parenting and schooling side, there would be a lot less conflict over unknowingly overstepping some social boundary.

This would erase a lot of problems Aspergers deal with in a society of neurotypicals; if you're explicitly taught social guidelines throughout your social life (and how to adapt as they change), you'd have no excuse for things like being unable to cooperate with others in the country.

2 - Said social norms wouldn't involve too many subtleties. Sure, there'd be a good deal of figuratives and unspoken (not unwritten!) rules, but the number of those wouldn't be so sheer that you can't write a good-sized book (or few) to teach them in the schooling system.

After all, these subtleties would exist just to make communication and other tasks more efficient, like how a programmer would write and/or use libraries to make his/her job easier.

3 - Subtle aspects aside, people would usually communicate on literal terms, which would reduce misunderstandings by a lot. Read point 1.

4 - There would be social struggles between those on varying parts of the spectrum. Sure, those on the higher-functioning end can adapt to the above three points easily enough, but those of us who struggle to even speak would still struggle in this hypothetical Autistica.

At least, until the social progress has been made. Which I doubt the country would start off having :/ Wow, this is kind of depressing.

tl;dr The country would have well-reinforced and well-defined social structures that make it easy enough for those on the higher-functioning end of the spectrum to thrive.

Other people have noted other things that would make the country different (like a more meritocratic hiring process), but the above four are what I can add.



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19 Apr 2016, 12:05 am

How about let's start with a president who is on the autism spectrum:)


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AIM
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19 Apr 2016, 6:55 am

Look people, why don't we actually just try it?

Many criticisms of the idea of an autistic state are valid however they are not reasons in themselves to not at least give it a go.

What do we have to lose? Aren't you tired of the constant misinterpretation and ostracisation?
Why should we adapt to the neurotypical way of life? If being ourselves makes neurotypicals feel uncomfortable we should just go our own way.
Are you not tired of having to maintain a fake personality to get along with colleagues/friends? No matter how nice we are to these neurotypicals we are at best, used and at worst, outright bullied. The fact of the matter is that most neurotypicals are just not willing to look over our social awkwardness, that's the truth and I suspect most of you know it.

Why bother with them? Let's just withdraw together!

Maybe it would fail, but so what? The potential for failure isn't a reason not to try. At least we can go to our deathbeds knowing we tried to do something that has never been attempted in history.

Let's get organising!! ! We could start with a manifesto.



Last edited by AIM on 19 Apr 2016, 7:24 am, edited 1 time in total.

Film2240
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19 Apr 2016, 7:05 am

AIM wrote:
Look people, why don't we actually just try it?

Many criticisms of the idea of an autistic state are valid however they are not reasons in themselves to not at least give it a go.

What do we have to lose? Aren't you tired of the constant misinterpretation and ostracisation?
Why should we adapt to the neurotypical way of life? If being ourselves makes neurotypicals feel uncomfortable we should just go our own way.
Are you not tired of having to maintain a fake personality to get along with colleagues/friends? No matter how nice we are to these neurotypicals we are at best, used and at worst, outright bullied. The fact of the matter is that most neurotypicals are just not willing to look over our social awkwardness, that's the truth and I suspect most of you know it.

Why bother with them? Let's just go our own way!

Maybe it would fail, but so what? The potential for failure isn't a reason not to try. At least we can go to our deathbeds knowing we tried to do something that has never been attempted in history.

Let's get organising!! ! We could start with a manifesto.


I agree with AIM.Luckily I have several ideas for what a new country looks like on my laptop :)



AIM
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19 Apr 2016, 7:26 am

Film2240 wrote:
AIM wrote:
Look people, why don't we actually just try it?

Many criticisms of the idea of an autistic state are valid however they are not reasons in themselves to not at least give it a go.

What do we have to lose? Aren't you tired of the constant misinterpretation and ostracisation?
Why should we adapt to the neurotypical way of life? If being ourselves makes neurotypicals feel uncomfortable we should just go our own way.
Are you not tired of having to maintain a fake personality to get along with colleagues/friends? No matter how nice we are to these neurotypicals we are at best, used and at worst, outright bullied. The fact of the matter is that most neurotypicals are just not willing to look over our social awkwardness, that's the truth and I suspect most of you know it.

Why bother with them? Let's just go our own way!

Maybe it would fail, but so what? The potential for failure isn't a reason not to try. At least we can go to our deathbeds knowing we tried to do something that has never been attempted in history.

Let's get organising!! ! We could start with a manifesto.


I agree with AIM.Luckily I have several ideas for what a new country looks like on my laptop :)



Yeah! Let's stop talking about it, let's actually do it!



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19 Apr 2016, 8:58 pm

TessSpoon wrote:
Funny, I have been throwing around such in an idea in my head for a while now, as part of a little worldbuilding project. Though it's a country that would mainly benefit those on the higher-functioning end of the spectrum.

I imagine that it wouldn't be too different from a real country, except for some key differences:

1 - Social subtleties would be taught in schools. At least in my experience, being unaware of social norms is the main reason Aspergers people suffer. If the people were taught etiquette on both the parenting and schooling side, there would be a lot less conflict over unknowingly overstepping some social boundary.

This would erase a lot of problems Aspergers deal with in a society of neurotypicals; if you're explicitly taught social guidelines throughout your social life (and how to adapt as they change), you'd have no excuse for things like being unable to cooperate with others in the country.

2 - Said social norms wouldn't involve too many subtleties. Sure, there'd be a good deal of figuratives and unspoken (not unwritten!) rules, but the number of those wouldn't be so sheer that you can't write a good-sized book (or few) to teach them in the schooling system.

After all, these subtleties would exist just to make communication and other tasks more efficient, like how a programmer would write and/or use libraries to make his/her job easier.

3 - Subtle aspects aside, people would usually communicate on literal terms, which would reduce misunderstandings by a lot. Read point 1.

4 - There would be social struggles between those on varying parts of the spectrum. Sure, those on the higher-functioning end can adapt to the above three points easily enough, but those of us who struggle to even speak would still struggle in this hypothetical Autistica.

At least, until the social progress has been made. Which I doubt the country would start off having :/ Wow, this is kind of depressing.

tl;dr The country would have well-reinforced and well-defined social structures that make it easy enough for those on the higher-functioning end of the spectrum to thrive.

Other people have noted other things that would make the country different (like a more meritocratic hiring process), but the above four are what I can add.


All of these points are excellent and I personally would have really benefitted from #1. In my ideal world jobs are mainly for introverts and being quiet is the norm. 8)


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redrobin62
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19 Apr 2016, 9:21 pm

It'd be a war zone. I love me some Autistics, that's for sure, but all of us getting along together is like the monkeys and snakes picnicking together. Ain't gonna happen.

1. Some of us have a very rigid 'my way or the highway' attitude because, well, we're always right.
2. Some of us have the compassion of a falling brick. "No food this week? Too bad. Get a job. You're not as autistic as my nephew."
3. At least if the high school prom gets cancelled no one will shed a tear.
4. Ditto for naming the homecoming king and queen, whatever those are.
5. I may be old fashioned, but Muzak flowing out of an elevator or dentist's office is still preferable to head crunching death metal, the music a lot of aspie kids are into these days.
6. Sigh. I will miss those shopping malls.
7. At least there won't be a single loose pitbull or other attack dogs in sight.
8. They may as well get rid of those wedding chapels. How frequently will they be used anyway?
9. At least education will be free, even college education. An aspie mind is a terrible thing to waste.
10. And even though I do like driving, I won't miss the speed freaks who treat the local roads like it's the Indy 500.



aspiesavant
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20 Apr 2016, 5:17 am

I guess the ultimate Aspie utopia would probably resemble one of the 4 endings of "Deus Ex : Invisible War".

I'm not sure which ending, though...









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20 Apr 2016, 8:13 am

Ardentmisanthrope23 wrote:
Just putting the question out there. I guess I dream of us taking care of our own needs and each other. I feel that I'd like to have more autonomy from a group of people(NT's) who often misunderstand us.

I just don't like putting my fate in the hands of people who think my quirks are slights against them...

Could we run our own affairs?
I would love to secede to a society that is not telling me to practise being "normal" the way NT's think it is...


Aspietopia would be a lot less corrupt and dishonest. Auties and Aspies are not talented liars by virtue of their geneticly inherited dispositions.


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20 Apr 2016, 9:30 am

BaalChatzaf wrote:
Aspietopia would be a lot less corrupt and dishonest. Auties and Aspies are not talented liars by virtue of their geneticly inherited dispositions.

On the other hand we also have a harder time identifying liars and we are usually a bit naive, so the effects would probably balance out.


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aspiesavant
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20 Apr 2016, 9:50 am

mikeman7918 wrote:
On the other hand we also have a harder time identifying liars


In my experience, highly intuitive Neurotypicals are much easier to manipulate than Autistic people, because Autistic people are more difficult to predict by people skilled in the art of manipulation and also because the Autistic eye for detail allows us to more easily detect inconsistencies in a manipulator's story.

In Autistic people, life experience and analytical skills can thus easily compensate for the lack of what passes for empathy in Neurotypicals.