Undiagnosing Grandin (essay)

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He's young, but not so young as to lay out a controversial piece and not expect some pushback. I tend to respond to people all the same. As long as it's not actually a five year old little kid (lol) I will give the same response if you're 16, 19, or 45.

My feeling is, if you're old enough to start causing a ruckus with even a slightly reasonably argued piece of controversy, you're old enough to get an argument back, or even some less pleasant responses. He's not a little child, he's a man in some countries (mine included!) and old enough to get some heat.

Most of what I wanted to say was already mentioned in the other replies. It is also important to remember the gender differences in which autism manifests. As a female on the spectrum, I never received an official diagnosis of autism until I was 18 years old. Until then, some people(including family members) believed that I cannot have autism. I wanted answers and others attempted to invalidate my opinions in the process. I know that Grandin was diagnosed much earlier, BUT I observe that autistic women are not believed because they do not display all the stereotypical traits observed in men. It is irresponsible to invalidate autism diagnoses unless you are a certified mental health professional. Oh, as others have mentioned, there are many logical fallacies in the original post.

A very wise post, autie21.

I doubt a lot of them could speak in front of crowds, but that doesn't mean it's impossible...also though I still don't know if Grandin does it well or not. Also traveling with children in general sounds like a chore and a half, there are likely more challenges with an autistic child as they may be more prone to motion sickness and there are plenty of sensory issues to deal with.

Traveling with children is also one thing...Grandin grew up under the influences of therapies and the kind of help that would enable her adult experience of traveling to be almost definitely different from whatever she may have been intolerant of as a child.

Many people on the spectrum experience at least some changes and improvements, in some areas of their coping ability, as they grow from children to adults.

To illustrate, I once could not be taken to any restaurant as a child, before everything crashed and burned for me in that environment. Big retail stores presented similar challenges. I can now tolerate a restaurant or store -- I've had occasional shut downs and meltdowns in them even as an adult, but my ability to cope has improved from practically zero as a child.

Things don't stay static even on the spectrum and so the OP raising the issue of being skeptical a grown woman can travel by stating that children on the spectrum often hate to, is poor logic to say the least.

Writing as someone of almost 60 who has recently been diagnosed aspergers, and someone who has read a bit of what Coojimans has to say - I'd agree with Mr C that what is thought of as aspieness tends to be a bit of a pick and mix bag, and we all tend to pick the good bits.

Now, what I've seen in myself and others, and whether this is down to some sub type is unknown to me, but to my mind, in a similar way that aspies can be either over sensitive or under sensitive to pain, aspies can be extremely under confident OR extremely over confident in narrow ways.

My confidence as a performing musician is remarkable. In fact the more hostile the audience is the better (short of actual physical violence). Public speaking is something I've had to do (university presentations) and the difference is staggering, the emotional churn, hyper sensitive fear of being disliked, psychological nausea at the sound of my own voice, physical trembling and so forth are pronounced. Somehow the benign vampiring of stage fright into confidence does not happen without an instrument in my hands.

There is an over social over confident subtype to consider, life and soul of the party thing.

Ergo (perhaps), you can be gallivantingly aspergeroid and display contrary characteristics in a narrow field. I don't think one can underestimate the results of the aspie super power of concentration. Look at our fine young Web Meister Alex - he looks nothing like a member of Devo and can obviously organise things.

My sense is that Aspieness is a collection of symptoms, and that that collection of symptoms does not have to be complete for the diagnosis. Not forgetting that I was a difficult and resistant case who has undergone the most recent UK version of the dx.

Whilst I have no urge to cyber attack the OP, my sense is that this is a youthful attempt at being iconaclastic.

to all under will

One worry about the future - that future editions of the DSM may continue to winnow people out of the ASD diagnosis. In Europe we've still got the ICD 10 with aspergers still in it, which cheers me.

I was very recently diagnosed in the UK, under the DSM, so there may be a move towards it. But, I was simply told that "you would have been classed as having Asperger's in the past" and positioned at Level 1, told to use whichever term I felt most comfortable with. I don't believe that the move will stop people from being diagnosed.

-"Oh, bu hu, she can do public speaking". Well so can i.

Just because you cannot, does not mean she isn't autistic. It just means that your experience with autism is limited to your limited, narrow minded, "i have lived in a bubble", ignorant interpretation of what autism is.

(I'm trying hard not to write the 5 letter word beginning with the letter "I" when responding to you!)

This is the exact reason why Autism and Aspergers should be kept separate. Normal to low IQ vs High to normal IQ respectively.

Temple Grandin also has brain damage, she is not an appropriate representative of those with ASD considering not everyone with Autism has brain damage. The average person will get the impression that's how all with Asperger's behave, when part of her behavior has to do with severely abnormal brain function.

http://discovermagazine.com/2013/april/ ... dins-brain
The images reveal an unusual neural landscape that reflects Grandin’s deficits and talents.

@Arielsong = The psychiatrist who dx'd me went out of his way to put the word asperger's on my report, which I'm grateful for. My sense is that it is more accurate than the umbrella term ASD.

This is not accurate. Grandin was diagnosed as brain damaged because it was the 60's (or 70's?) when she was diagnosed and that's what the word for Autism was back then. Everyone who is that age, and was autistic back then, was labeled brain damaged.

Grandin is also an savant, so her way of thinking and her brain patterns on an MRI scan are going to be different than most autistic brains. This doesn't mean that she's not autistic. This means that she is twice exceptional.

Two things: First, our ability to scan the brain is a field in its infancy. Two: all autistics are different. There is no one autistic brain. Someday, we'll find out more about the different ways that our brains can produce similar symptoms, but the technology isn't really there yet. We really don't understand much about the brain.

Could care less, she still sucks as an advocate either way.

Can't remember where I read it, but recall that if the DSM V is relied on a good percentage of people who would have previously been dx'd with PDD NOS are simply dumped.

My short story, at 60, is one of 5 years surreal obstruction from the NHS, though the full diagnostic trail stretches back 12 or 13 years. Mental Health care in Britain has been dreadfulised enough without solely relying upon a manual for diagnosis that has essentially to do with if American insurance companies will cough up or not.

Here's an anecdote, a friend of mine has pronounced aspie tendencies though manages to hold down a job. He turned to the NHS for help and was given counselling. This so called counselling consisted of a cocky bloke a decade younger than him shouting at him that he would never be able to claim sickness benefits.

Mental Health care in Britain is scandal upon scandal that has established itself.

It is in that context that I get jumpy about iconclastic undiagnosing trends. Certainly, there's nothing wrong with undiagnosing Einstein, as the undiagnosing of Einstein is as fictional as the diagnosing of him in the first place. Beethoven appears to be a diagnostic moveable feast - it was often claimed he was bi polar when I was young, have recently heard of him as an alleged aspie. It's fashion, popular aspergerism, whereas I come from the very unpopular deep end, as I'm certain many others do on these boards.

- putting love at the end as it's always a good idea, and it's true

That is not to trivialise whatever Beethoven had -