Are leftists the biggest hypocrites towards autistic issues?
I'm just very wary of people who thrust their ideas onto me and need me to outwardly agree with their every stance.
I don't think that your summary is a very direct reflection of my sentiments by the way.
I am a leftie and belong to several minority groups, I just don't make a song and dance about it.
I'm sorry if I misunderstood your previous post.
So you're not objecting to minority-rights movements in general, or the left's interest in same, but just the tactics and purist attitudes of the more obnoxious "SJWs"?
Also do you object in any way to the very idea of an alliance between different minority-rights movements?
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Last edited by Mona Pereth on 17 Aug 2019, 4:41 pm, edited 1 time in total.
On what basis do you conclude that they are "just pretending"?
It seems to me that, in almost any group of people committed to a cause, there will be both some people who are sincere and others who are just virtue signaling. But the virtue signalers would gain nothing, socially, if the sincere people did not also exist. "Hypocrisy is the tribute that vice pays to virtue" (François de la Rochefoucauld).
Anyhow, it seems to me that most leftists are probably ignorant of autistic people's issues, but can be educated about them.
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Last edited by Mona Pereth on 17 Aug 2019, 4:39 pm, edited 1 time in total.
In my experience of high level politicians
Individuals that are drawn to power who stay in politics for a long time, often become amoral and self serving.
Perhaps in their youth, some had noble intentions. But as they rose to the top, such noble intentions
got lost and replaced by greed, abuse of their own power & authority, perhaps in their fight to gain and maintain power from their opposing parties.
I am afraid i personally the political party system is one of the biggest flaws in the present political system in many countries of the world.
Systems where political parties will do anything and everything to undermine their opposition so as to boost their own careers, including underhanded criminal set ups, slander, industrial espionage, accepting funding and support from less than reputable backers. In short, the political party system does breed war of types.
I do not think that the present system is the only way to run a democratic political system.
I think that it is extremely wasteful for many highly paid people spend all their time fighting to gain the power.
Spending much money, time and effort in political assassination campaigns against their various members of the opposition, including people who are good, and policies that are useful.
In the dirty game of politics, bad underhanded politicians will do anything to win, including undermine a good policy.
In which case, money gets wasted, the people's money - not the money of some bent politicians who does such things
all so as to decrease the popularity of their opposition while increasing their own parities position, in hope that one day they will gain the position that they need in order to exploit the public spending, abuse the power that the position brings and enforce their moral values or lack of moral values that their party promotes, as well as save money for their peers and thus receive rewards indirectly.
All very bad in my opinion.
Individuals that are drawn to power who stay in politics for a long time, often become amoral and self serving.
Politicians and political activists are two very different kinds of beasts, with very little in common in most cases. The goal of a politician is to get elected, whereas the goal of an activist is to advance some cause. Activists can influence politicians if there are large numbers of voters whose views the activists represent.
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^ This
I feel abused by the SJW that I knew. When it emerged that I was on the spectrum their treatment of me drastically improved. I do class their behaviour as hypocritical because they failed to see me as a complete person in both instances.
The idea is a fine one as long as there is a clear obstacle to overcome but allies who indulge in acts of petty inteferrence, I would rather do without.
Is this important? If someone expands the laws protecting me so that they can pretend to care about my rights, I am just as protected as if they had done it because they actually cared. Even if every politically engaged person is doing what they do for cynical reasons, the two political teams do different things, and that difference matters to me much more than how pure I imagine their motives to be.
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^ This
I feel abused by the SJW that I knew. When it emerged that I was on the spectrum their treatment of me drastically improved. I do class their behaviour as hypocritical because they failed to see me as a complete person in both instances.
Yes, some people (including, but not limited to, some political activists) are so narrowly focused on their goals that they fail to treat other people as complete people.
The idea is a fine one as long as there is a clear obstacle to overcome but allies who indulge in acts of petty inteferrence, I would rather do without.
Could you give a specific example of the kind of petty interference you are talking about?
_________________
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- Autistic peer-led groups (via text-based chat, currently) led or facilitated by members of the Autistic Peer Leadership Group.
- My Twitter / "X" (new as of 2021)
Sweetleaf
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I feel that autistic people are the equivalent of working class whites who used to loyally support Democrats until job trends like mass automation started decimating the rural economies. The fact that the left starts using the term “incel” to describe men with no sexual experience who are socially awkward really shows they are indifferent at best, and hostile at worst towards autistic people. Plus, most incels are just mentally ill nuts.
A lot of socially awkward men are autistic, sure not most of them. But if 5% of all socially awkward people are on the spectrum, considering a 1% rate among the population, they are 5x likely to have ASD than average.
I have not heard the republican party talking about it either, in fact I have not heard very many people talk about that in general. Also I do not think its specifically leftists who use the term incel, some people even refer to themselves as that and its not as if right wingers don't use the term...it can be used as an insult and I am sure some have insulted people with that term.
I really think people need to get rid of the incel thing, like its not good for anyone...seems like its a good way to help a person get stuck in the idea they are never good enough for a relationship and no one will like them no matter how they improve because their nose looks a little weird or they have a reoccuring pimple or they aren't lean and muscular. I don't see how the term is helpful in any way.
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Sweetleaf
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Not that the Right are Autistic friendly, but at least they're more honest about it and they're less judgemental if you put your foot in it. It's scary how quickly the left "cancel" people if they're not 100% perfect!
Also it may be that some on the Left dislike how logical Autistic people are too, because a lot of their arguments tend to be emotion-based.
Everyone has been changing language and what is acceptable to say or what you can and cannot talk about, its not a right wing or left wing thing per say...its just a society thing, people decide what is tolerated and what isn't its happened before democrats and republicans even existed.
Also the right are not non-judgemental, if you agree with them they can be but many certainly let their judgmental attitudes show when exposed to things they aren't used to...like transgender children...an absolute horror to them meanwhile in the real world its happening there are treatments to help them become the sex they prefer.
I mean bring that up to any right winger and see how non-judgmental they are about that situation. I get the impression more left wingers than right wingers would be open minded about such a topic.
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Not that the Right are Autistic friendly, but at least they're more honest about it and they're less judgemental if you put your foot in it. It's scary how quickly the left "cancel" people if they're not 100% perfect!
Also it may be that some on the Left dislike how logical Autistic people are too, because a lot of their arguments tend to be emotion-based.
Everyone has been changing language and what is acceptable to say or what you can and cannot talk about, its not a right wing or left wing thing per say...its just a society thing, people decide what is tolerated and what isn't its happened before democrats and republicans even existed.
Also the right are not non-judgemental, if you agree with them they can be but many certainly let their judgmental attitudes show when exposed to things they aren't used to...like transgender children...an absolute horror to them meanwhile in the real world its happening there are treatments to help them become the sex they prefer.
I mean bring that up to any right winger and see how non-judgmental they are about that situation. I get the impression more left wingers than right wingers would be open minded about such a topic.
I have already picked my poison.
Sweetleaf
Veteran
Joined: 6 Jan 2011
Age: 34
Gender: Female
Posts: 34,833
Location: Somewhere in Colorado
Not that the Right are Autistic friendly, but at least they're more honest about it and they're less judgemental if you put your foot in it. It's scary how quickly the left "cancel" people if they're not 100% perfect!
Also it may be that some on the Left dislike how logical Autistic people are too, because a lot of their arguments tend to be emotion-based.
Everyone has been changing language and what is acceptable to say or what you can and cannot talk about, its not a right wing or left wing thing per say...its just a society thing, people decide what is tolerated and what isn't its happened before democrats and republicans even existed.
Also the right are not non-judgemental, if you agree with them they can be but many certainly let their judgmental attitudes show when exposed to things they aren't used to...like transgender children...an absolute horror to them meanwhile in the real world its happening there are treatments to help them become the sex they prefer.
I mean bring that up to any right winger and see how non-judgmental they are about that situation. I get the impression more left wingers than right wingers would be open minded about such a topic.
I have already picked my poison.
Well that is fine to each their own, but just saying right wingers are not exactly non judgemental.
I am on the left and I do care about things...I want a healthier environment with less fossil fuel and plastic because that would benefit everyone, clean air and a healthy environment is good for all people regardless of their political views.
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We won't go back.
Is this important? If someone expands the laws protecting me so that they can pretend to care about my rights, I am just as protected as if they had done it because they actually cared. Even if every politically engaged person is doing what they do for cynical reasons, the two political teams do different things, and that difference matters to me much more than how pure I imagine their motives to be.
The question I see about new laws is what good is a new law if you can't even get the current laws enforced?
^ This
I feel abused by the SJW that I knew. When it emerged that I was on the spectrum their treatment of me drastically improved. I do class their behaviour as hypocritical because they failed to see me as a complete person in both instances.
Yes, some people (including, but not limited to, some political activists) are so narrowly focused on their goals that they fail to treat other people as complete people.
The idea is a fine one as long as there is a clear obstacle to overcome but allies who indulge in acts of petty inteferrence, I would rather do without.
Could you give a specific example of the kind of petty interference you are talking about?
I know it when I see it Mona, when people are visibly getting a kick out of being confrontational. People who call out others about their behaviour, until it becomes monotonous. I wouldn't want to try and enlighten the public about autism with that kind of ally.
For me i make an assessment of the policies the parties are putting forward.
Here in the uk there is a website which will give you the main parties policies, without identifying whose policy it is.
You then select which of the policies you support, at the end of the listed policies it will then give you an evaluation of which parties policies you support by majority.
I try to stick to this idea, even with the recent demonisation and persecution from the right wing tory party towards anyone disabled.
I had a go at this and my result was a balanced mix of four parties. So yeah, I wish we could vote for policies, because I would like to select my own from each party please. I guess it's much more about them than it is about us.
The following actually happened to me the other day. I am doing a very small research study on Astrology charts of people with diagnosed ASD and was asking some people on line if they would like to take part, but to do so they must have a diagnosis, because the study is on the dsm 5 criteria and, seeing as it is only me without much spare time on my hands, will need to keep the study's complexity as low as possible.
But this girl, who had already explained she identifies with 'neurodiverse' in a different thread basically said she felt uncomfortable with my study because it is harmful towards the principles of the neurodiverse community.
Basically, she was diagnosed ADHD yet identified as Autistic because she felt they were both the same thing and I was in the wrong for addressing one type of neurological disorder and not another. I saw on her profile she had the whole LGBT thing going on, which I guess you might associate with left (or whatever).
Anyway, it is possible (yet not necessarily so) that she knew full well of my diagnosis because I had already mentioned it, yet she explicitly asked me, 'are you neurodiverse or neurotypical'? Now this question did nothing but confuse me because,
a) I hadn't really familiarised myself with the whole concept of neurodiversity yet, but I did have a funny feeling it was more of a social concept than a medical one so, as you might understand, having Aspergers, I simply don't tend to socially 'identify' with anything. I tend to think more scientifically.
b) I just couldn't figure out how to answer, given that she gave me two options. I thought about saying a simple, 'no', but didn't want to risk sounding cocky.
Anyway, I just ended up stating that I wanted to stick to the topic and to let me know if she wants to take part. (To be fair I wasn't aware of her diagnosis at this point but had a hunch she wasn't autistic because of her social behaviour - i figured this out later).
So she further sprung a couple of her beliefs on me, which I thought weren't really related to the topic and I thanked her for her input but unfortunately, didn't have an hour to dedicate to explaining myself to someone who wasn't really into what I was doing, but this must have pissed her off because she went on a rant and basically verbally abused me, while trying to get others on board to say how what I was doing was the worst thing ever blah blah blah.
She even went out of her way and found my business page to leave a negative recommendation, saying I was exploiting autistic people to use their data, without explicit consent from the people themselves, while refusing to disclose my own neurodiversity. These are simply lies because I am seeking this consent and I had already disclosed my condition. Not only this, but I am taking email addresses of all participants so I can send them more information about myself and the progress with results of the study.
I just couldn't believe it. Still in a bit of shock about it to be honest.
Anyway I did a bit of reading since and it turns out that neurodiversity is a social construct, just as I had suspected, yet it is more to do with seeking equality for people with neurological problems in general, rather than blending them all together and trying to eradicate the diagnoses of specific conditions so that those who have problems identifying with their conditions don't have to.
But this girl, who had already explained she identifies with 'neurodiverse' in a different thread basically said she felt uncomfortable with my study because it is harmful towards the principles of the neurodiverse community.
On which forum, social media site, etc., did you run into her? (If you'd rather not be specific, what general kind of site?)
Anyway, it is possible (yet not necessarily so) that she knew full well of my diagnosis because I had already mentioned it, yet she explicitly asked me, 'are you neurodiverse or neurotypical'?
If indeed she used the word "neurodiverse" in that context, rather than "neurodivergent," she was mis-using it. (More about this later.) Anyhow, the idea that all neurodivergent conditions are really just one condition isn't something most advocates of the neurodiversity paradigm would claim, although a few do.
a) I hadn't really familiarised myself with the whole concept of neurodiversity yet, but I did have a funny feeling it was more of a social concept than a medical one so, as you might understand, having Aspergers, I simply don't tend to socially 'identify' with anything. I tend to think more scientifically.
b) I just couldn't figure out how to answer, given that she gave me two options. I thought about saying a simple, 'no', but didn't want to risk sounding cocky.
Anyway, I just ended up stating that I wanted to stick to the topic and to let me know if she wants to take part. (To be fair I wasn't aware of her diagnosis at this point but had a hunch she wasn't autistic because of her social behaviour - i figured this out later).
So she further sprung a couple of her beliefs on me, which I thought weren't really related to the topic and I thanked her for her input but unfortunately, didn't have an hour to dedicate to explaining myself to someone who wasn't really into what I was doing, but this must have pissed her off because she went on a rant and basically verbally abused me, while trying to get others on board to say how what I was doing was the worst thing ever blah blah blah.
She even went out of her way and found my business page to leave a negative recommendation, saying I was exploiting autistic people to use their data, without explicit consent from the people themselves, while refusing to disclose my own neurodiversity. These are simply lies because I am seeking this consent and I had already disclosed my condition. Not only this, but I am taking email addresses of all participants so I can send them more information about myself and the progress with results of the study.
I just couldn't believe it. Still in a bit of shock about it to be honest.
I'm very sorry to hear that that happened. Alas, some activists become fanatics and end up behaving in very counterproductive and outright cruel ways.
Exactly.
More about the meaning of "neurodiverse": The term "neurodiversity" was coined by autistic sociologist Judy Singer in 1998. Regarding the above-mentioned gal's use of the term "neurodiverse," see the following excerpt from Neurodiversity: Some Basic Terms & Definitions by Nick Walker, September 27, 2014:
Of all the terminology errors that people make in writing and speaking about neurodiversity, the incorrect use of neurodiverse to mean neurodivergent is by far the most common.
There is no such thing as a “neurodiverse individual.” The correct term is “neurodivergent individual.”
An individual can diverge, but an individual cannot be diverse. Diversity is a property of groups, not of individuals. That’s intrinsic to the meaning and proper usage of the term diverse. Groups are diverse; individuals diverge.
In addition, neurodiverse does not mean “non-neurotypical.” The opposite of neurotypical is neurodivergent, not neurodiverse.
The opposite of neurodiverse would be neurohomogenous (meaning “composed of people who are all neurocognitively similar to one another”).
Neurodiverse cannot be used to mean “non-neurotypical,” because neurotypical people, like all other human beings, are part of the spectrum of human neurodiversity.
In North America, Europe, and Australia, white people are the racial group that holds the most privilege and societal power. But we do not use the term “racially diverse” to mean “non-white.” “Racially diverse” means “including members of multiple racial groups.”
To use the term “racially diverse” to mean “non-white,” or to describe a Black or Asian-American person, for instance, as a “racially diverse individual,” would not merely be an incorrect usage of the word “diverse” – it would also be racist.
[...]
Humanity is neurodiverse, just as humanity is racially, ethnically, and culturally diverse. By definition, no human being falls outside of the spectrum of human neurodiversity, just as no human being falls outside of the spectrum of human racial, ethnic, and cultural diversity.
In summary, then: misusing the term neurodiverse to mean neurodivergent (i.e., non-neurotypical) is not only plain old bad English, it also subtly reinforces ableism and undercuts the fundamental tenets of the neurodiversity paradigm.
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