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funeralxempire
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02 Jun 2023, 9:16 am

Kaioken wrote:
funeralxempire wrote:
Kaioken wrote:
Most of these celebrities don’t actually have it. They have personality disorders misdiagnosed as Autism.


Of course they couldn't possibly be autistic, some rando on the internet claims they don't.
Of course their doctor can't diagnose anything properly, you gotta trust some rando on the internet.


Why should we listen to you then? You’re a rando on the internet


My credibility isn't on the line because I'm not making a claim, I'm criticizing your claim and you so far appear to lack a valid rebuttal; all you've had to say so far is NO U.

Of course you're going to insist that your position is credible, but what grants it credibility?


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02 Jun 2023, 9:37 am

Kaioken wrote:
carlos55 wrote:
Just another celeb looking for attention.

Celeb attention = new roles + money

Ironically I mentioned her earlier without knowing anything about this release

Maybe I’m psychic lol

Most of these celebrities don’t actually have it. They have personality disorders misdiagnosed as Autism.
Evidence please.



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02 Jun 2023, 9:48 am

No, you didn’t offer a constructive argument to my claim. You just engaged in sarcasm. If you had knowledge of Autism, you would know that many Autistics struggle with it. I could tell you that I have a PhD in Autism and you’d still discount it because you’ve decided I’m just a rando on the internet with no credentials. That’s the prejudicial lens you’ve brought to the conversation. So seeing as you brought up “random on the internet”, I have a right to ask why aren’t you one too?



funeralxempire
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02 Jun 2023, 9:52 am

Kaioken wrote:
No, you didn’t offer a constructive argument to my claim. You just engaged in sarcasm. If you had knowledge of Autism, you would know that many Autistics struggle with it. I could tell you that I have a PhD in Autism and you’d still discount it because you’ve decided I’m just a rando on the internet with no credentials. That’s the prejudicial lens you’ve brought to the conversation. So seeing as you brought up “random on the internet”, I have a right to ask why aren’t you one too?


I am also a rando on the internet.

That doesn't mean I can't ask you what lends credibility to your claims that they're all faking it/lying/misdiagnosed/attention seeking?

If nothing lends them credibility, why should they be accepted?


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02 Jun 2023, 9:52 am

Kaioken wrote:
No, you didn’t offer a constructive argument to my claim. You just engaged in sarcasm. If you had knowledge of Autism, you would know that many Autistics struggle with it. I could tell you that I have a PhD in Autism and you’d still discount it because you’ve decided I’m just a rando on the internet with no credentials. That’s the prejudicial lens you’ve brought to the conversation. So seeing as you brought up “random on the internet”, I have a right to ask why aren’t you one too?

When you make a claim, you need to back it up with evidence. When you say that celebrities have personality disorders and not autism, you need to be able to prove it. It wouldn't matter if you had a "PhD in autism" because in order to diagnose people you have to meet with them in person and perform adequate testing.



funeralxempire
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02 Jun 2023, 9:54 am

Twilightprincess wrote:
Kaioken wrote:
No, you didn’t offer a constructive argument to my claim. You just engaged in sarcasm. If you had knowledge of Autism, you would know that many Autistics struggle with it. I could tell you that I have a PhD in Autism and you’d still discount it because you’ve decided I’m just a rando on the internet with no credentials. That’s the prejudicial lens you’ve brought to the conversation. So seeing as you brought up “random on the internet”, I have a right to ask why aren’t you one too?

When you make a claim, you need to back it up with evidence. When you say that celebrities have personality disorders and not autism, you need to be able to prove it. It wouldn't matter if you had a "PhD in autism" because in order to diagnose people you have to meet with them in person and perform adequate testing.


Is it wrong to point out that no one gets a 'PhD in autism' but instead one gets a PhD in a field that might study autism. They might have even done all of their work in that field related to autism... they still don't have 'a PhD in autism'.


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02 Jun 2023, 9:57 am

funeralxempire wrote:
Twilightprincess wrote:
Kaioken wrote:
No, you didn’t offer a constructive argument to my claim. You just engaged in sarcasm. If you had knowledge of Autism, you would know that many Autistics struggle with it. I could tell you that I have a PhD in Autism and you’d still discount it because you’ve decided I’m just a rando on the internet with no credentials. That’s the prejudicial lens you’ve brought to the conversation. So seeing as you brought up “random on the internet”, I have a right to ask why aren’t you one too?

When you make a claim, you need to back it up with evidence. When you say that celebrities have personality disorders and not autism, you need to be able to prove it. It wouldn't matter if you had a "PhD in autism" because in order to diagnose people you have to meet with them in person and perform adequate testing.


Is it wrong to point out that no one gets a 'PhD in autism' but instead one gets a PhD in a field that might study autism. They might have even done all of their work in that field related to autism... they still don't have 'a PhD in autism'.

That's true. :lol: Of course, maybe by PhD he means "personally held dogma." That sounds like a perfectly valid description based on the evidence in this thread.



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02 Jun 2023, 10:12 am

Who is Sia?


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02 Jun 2023, 10:15 am

IsabellaLinton wrote:
Who is Sia?

A singer.



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02 Jun 2023, 10:27 am

Twilightprincess wrote:
Kaioken wrote:
No, you didn’t offer a constructive argument to my claim. You just engaged in sarcasm. If you had knowledge of Autism, you would know that many Autistics struggle with it. I could tell you that I have a PhD in Autism and you’d still discount it because you’ve decided I’m just a rando on the internet with no credentials. That’s the prejudicial lens you’ve brought to the conversation. So seeing as you brought up “random on the internet”, I have a right to ask why aren’t you one too?

When you make a claim, you need to back it up with evidence. When you say that celebrities have personality disorders and not autism, you need to be able to prove it. It wouldn't matter if you had a "PhD in autism" because in order to diagnose people you have to meet with them in person and perform adequate testing.


You’ve really tied yourself up in knots with the rando on the internet comment.



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02 Jun 2023, 10:30 am

We're all randos on the internet, in relation to diagnosing a celebrity.


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02 Jun 2023, 10:30 am

Kaioken wrote:
Twilightprincess wrote:
Kaioken wrote:
No, you didn’t offer a constructive argument to my claim. You just engaged in sarcasm. If you had knowledge of Autism, you would know that many Autistics struggle with it. I could tell you that I have a PhD in Autism and you’d still discount it because you’ve decided I’m just a rando on the internet with no credentials. That’s the prejudicial lens you’ve brought to the conversation. So seeing as you brought up “random on the internet”, I have a right to ask why aren’t you one too?

When you make a claim, you need to back it up with evidence. When you say that celebrities have personality disorders and not autism, you need to be able to prove it. It wouldn't matter if you had a "PhD in autism" because in order to diagnose people you have to meet with them in person and perform adequate testing.


You’ve really tied yourself up in knots with the rando on the internet comment.

What sort of knots are you referring to?

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02 Jun 2023, 10:38 am

Celebrity is used to distract us from doing the things we need to do to make this world a better place


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02 Jun 2023, 11:01 am

It would be far from the first lie she has ever told.



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02 Jun 2023, 7:42 pm

NOW THAT WE KNOW SIA IS AUTISTIC - Thinking Persons Guide to Autism

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The musician Sia recently revealed what many had long suspected: She is autistic.

The reactions from autistics have been quick and sharp. Sia’s 2021 film Music, about a non-speaking autistic girl’s vivid inner world and upheavals after her mother’s death, was widely criticized by autistics for its absurd autism stereotypes and mishandling of dangerous issues like restraints. Sia was abruptly dismissive to this backlash, which did not endear her to her now-fellow neurokin. Also, the actor who played the title Music, Maddie Ziegler, is not herself autistic—a sticking point for some but a distraction from deeper, systemic concerns for others:

Now that we know Sia is autistic, how can we respond? Being autistic is not a get-out-of-jail-free card for bad behavior. Sia’s novel neurostatus doesn’t mean Music is suddenly a good movie (it is not) or that Sia is instantly absolved from all missteps, like soliciting but then ignoring feedback from non-speaking autistics, and thus making a mockery of Music’s autistic characteristics, human rights, and communication needs.

But, perhaps, we need to consider the greater circumstances leading to an undiagnosed autistic person like Sia getting autism so, so wrong and redirect our energies into encouraging her to understand her neurodivergent self better. To that end, an anonymous autistic contributor shares their insights*.

In the days before her fame, Sia dated someone I knew and we’d occasionally find ourselves hanging out. So, I’ve been waiting for this day.

“When Music came out, I found it particularly heartbreaking because I saw that flawed film for what it was: The byproduct of an autistic person who didn’t yet understand themselves as autistic. It reminded me of problematic movie and TV tropes about gay people made by artists and directors who were so repressed that they didn’t yet know they were gay (I’m old enough to rememberer that!).

“Yesterday on Twitter, I tried to express empathy for Sia and noted that criticism of Music led her to try to figure out how she got it wrong, which led to self-reflection, which led to her diagnosis. I ended up deleting the tweet because of the bullying and harassment I received.

“To me, this is a moment of reflection on what happens when autistic people aren’t centered in things about us. Just like those old gay tv tropes, it creates an ecosystem where an autistic person who does not understand herself as autistic creates a film like Music. I see it as a point where we can reflect on why we need to better serve autistic people, and how we can grow from here.

“Many folks on Twitter just seemed focused on hatred and retribution. I wish we could provide each other more grace.”

*If you know who the anonymous person is, please don’t reveal their name. Thanks.

I still do not know what to think about the question is Sia autistic or an NT playing us. Although I trust The Thinking Persons Guide to Autism vetted this anonymous person I can’t definitively form an opinion based on an Anonymous person who claims to have known someone who dated Sia and based on that knew the then undiagnosed Sia is autistic.

The anonymous author is correct in that often it is an epic f**kup or fuckups that lead to self reflection that leads to a diagnosis. The author is correct that because of literal ignorance undiagnosed people unintentionally hurt themselves and others. As a very late diagnosed autistic been there, done that.


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04 Jun 2023, 12:12 pm

This point of view needs to be addressed
“Being autistic doesn’t absolve Sia of dangerous ableism”

Quote:
Unsurprisingly, reaction from the autistic community this week to the news that Sia is autistic has been instant, with many arguing that the singer’s diagnosis doesn’t excuse her past actions (and inactions).

“Sia deserved all the backlash she got and then some. Being autistic doesn’t make it okay, Sia. It makes it WORSE,” said NeuroRebel on Twitter.

“When she apologises for all the hurt she did to the community for her actions then we can talk about acceptance,” agreed Nick Lowe.

Another Twitter user, FunFactsWithLulu, raised a critical point, stating that the Sia saga is a “great demonstration that autistic people can be violently ableist, especially to other autistic people who they perceive to be ‘more severe’ or ‘lower on the spectrum’.”

I agree, because I have been there. I was that ableist, so-called “high-functioning” autistic.

When I was in primary school, I felt a burning embarrassment watching an autistic boy in my class struggle to make friends and move his body “appropriately” in the playground. In high school, in love with a rock musician diagnosed with what was then called Asperger’s syndrome, I obsessively read about autism. I even considered becoming an applied behaviour analysis (ABA) therapist in order to “help” autistic children.

As an adult, I cringed at other grown adults having meltdowns in public or enjoying their “special interests”. Years later, at the age of 28, I was diagnosed as autistic.

The reason I mention this is not only to prove that autistic people can be ableist, but to remind myself that being anti-ableist requires honest introspection and genuine engagement with the autistic community. Only after I devoured entire books and Instagram accounts on autism did I start the often-painful process of self-discovery that led me to some hard truths.

I was only embarrassed by autistic people’s odd behaviour because it mirrored my own struggles and internalised shame. I only obsessed over a famous musician’s Asperger’s diagnosis because I saw myself in him. I only wanted to become an ABA therapist because I had no idea how harmful and abusive ABA can be, and because I desperately wanted to help my undiagnosed, traumatised childhood self.

So maybe it makes sense that Sia directed a film about an autistic girl only to be diagnosed as autistic herself. But being autistic doesn’t absolve people of ableism, particularly if they’re a celebrity with all the support in the world available to them.

And that’s where the problem is, and why the autistic community hasn’t forgiven Sia. Despite the privilege her fame and fortune affords her, Sia has yet to own her mistake or meaningfully engage with the autistic community. Instead, despite all the responsibility of her status, Sia is washing her hands of the issue – a privilege many autistic people don’t have.

For a wealthy, white, award-winning artist like Sia, autism can apparently be a vague label of quirkiness (Sia used the word “kook” as well as “on the spectrum”). For almost everyone else, autism dictates every aspect of our lives, often negatively – our relationships, finances, and our physical and mental health.

Most of us have no support, so we have no choice but to own our autism, do our own research, and do our best to hold others to account – not least of all because dangerous misconceptions and misrepresentations of autism by powerful, privileged people continue.

Before ‘Music’ I knew Sia was a well regarded electropop artist but that was about it. After her movie tanked, the movie was universally panned as a movie, at it ‘won’ two Razzes my attitude was the point has been made enough is enough.

I completely forgot about it and was why I was shocked to read this story.

This can go three main ways.
1. She says nothing more beyond the vague reveal. That is her right. We are not entitled to this information. Then I will still be not sure what think and move on.

2. She just makes things worse. I would call her out on it and move on.

3. She seems genuine and demonstrates she gets it. There will always be doubts about her sincerity because she is an entertainer. But I would welcome her to the community. Innocent until proven guilty. If I get played, I get played, it won’t be the first time, it won’t be the last. Move on.

At the time Music was already a relic. Now in the wake of Extraordinary Attorney Woo and A Kind Of Spark even more so. Music won’t be the last disaster autism representation but because of other counter representation they are not as damaging as they once were.. Of course bad representations are still going to upset us. But there is no need to be obsessed by them or be devastated by them.


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