So why exactly do we hate Autism Speaks?

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I didn't make accusations. I made a criticism. If you want me to mention an instance of his intentions, how about how he called for a moratorium on federally funded autism genetic research? Back your clownish attitude up.

I don't see what's wrong with stopping such research at all, it's only going to be used for a cure in the end anyway if it's ultimately successful.

Well I do, cause I don't take orders from you or Ne'eman. And neither do the others who y'all ignore. I don't think it should be your choice. I don't think others should have to live miserable existences for the benefit of a few super smart people. You can't stop the urge for change that will involve making you share your gifts through the way of cure. I think your wishes will have to be contradicted in favor of those who are suffering.

oh, the misconceptions.

Just because we dont want a cure, doesnt mean that we are "high functioning" even though i hate the label.

People who are so called "High functioning" may also suffer every now and then. But i dont think there are many humans who dont suffer from time to time.


Assumptions on the quality of life, of someone who does not express this themselves, are difficult to make. I think it is important that we do not consider only normal lives or close to normal lives to be quality lives or good lives.

I see too many who are high-functioning who want to prevent cure. What suffering of theirs? I've heard of the successful lifestyles of you aspie types, which comes along with the immense aptitude they didn't have to work for. Stop pretending things are fair and equitable for everyone. Your abstract portrayal of this doesn't fool me. Anyone who isn't completely insane knows what quality of life is. There's no real debate there. Don't count on getting all who are being screwed over to indefinitely accept a lower standard of living. Enough of this attitude about not assuming and not liking the word normal whiny sobbing crap.

Life isn't fair, mate. I'm ignored socially and no one likes me, I spend most of my time in isolation. I guess you could say that's suffering. NTs sure would. But the way I see it, we all have a gift here.

Not all Aspies have savant-like abilities as you seem to believe - I certainly don't. But, again, I don't have a disease, I have a gift, and it's one I can use to my advantage.

When it comes to low-functioning autistic people... Who are you to speak for them? And, more to the point, why should a bunch of NTs (and that's pretty much what Autism Speaks, ironically, is) speak for them? Neither you, nor me, nor Autism Speaks, has a right to speak for them.

But let me show you this:

[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u9RGHi_1KwM[/youtube]
As you can see, this isn't just a bunch of Aspies, these are people from ALL OVER THE SPECTRUM getting their own voices out, and you've thrown personal insults at my apparent "attitude" but you've yet to provide a valid point against them.

You seem to have asked several questions in this topic, can you clarify which one you feel hasn't been answered?

Well, many want it to be made fair. If that pessimism was accepted wholly, then there would be no limit to what some could get away with. If you act towards others the way you act towards me, I'm not surprised they don't like you and may ignore you. You live your life how you want to, in whatever amount of isolation you wish, as it may please you. That's none of my business. But you have options, yet many others don't. One can't live securely or how they want when basic skills aren't guaranteed. Being shackled in dependence doesn't allow one to make the choices one would like. I don't know what you mean by gifts.


I'm not talking of savant abilities really. I don't know how many aspies aren't very well off, but I know there are those among you with ridiculously high amounts of aptitude who consequently acquire lots of success and get what they want. You're not making me disregard that reality that so many want to hold onto.


I speak as one would basically see things when in such a position. I'm very disabled myself. I lack basic skills, I have no certainty of my capability to do anything while being certain that I will be overwhelmed to the point of failure. No matter what I want to do, I only get to choose from irksome and degrading options, and endure deprivation. I don't have to speak for anyone. There are autistics out there who want cure. Since you acknowledge you shouldn't speak for them either, then who are you to try to enforce your will, and in particular these huge disparities on them?
I don't think it's optimal for NTs to represent the lower functioning, especially as so many of them are well-off. I'm seeing ever increasing drawbacks and shortcomings to that. I'm convinced that those on the spectrum are going to have to direct the agenda that Autism Speaks is involved in. I think the lower functioning are going to have to stand up to you to look out for their own future interests.


I'm not going to fall for that vague propaganda designed to emotionally direct viewers towards a viewpoint. That does nothing to affirm your agenda as appropriate. If you think I've already insulted you, you don't know what an insult is. You should be talked to bluntly in response to your dismissive tone. There's no point to counter an attitude, other than one that addresses the source of the attitude. You haven't started making any points to talk about until now.

You can't make life fair for everyone. It's literally impossible. Life is simply not fair, it's a fact, and you can't change that. But you can make it better than it already is, and I think most of us would agree that the ASAN is more beneficial to people on the spectrum than Autism Speaks is.



If someone randomly started insulting a good organisation (you described the ASAN as "Ari Ne'eman and the phony thugs" without any explanation whatsoever) then, yes, I would talk to them like this. If such people don't like me then I don't care.



You talk like all Aspies are independent. Here in reality, however, many Aspies can't even move out of their parents' house, and only 12% of people with Asperger's or high-functioning autism here in the UK are in full time employment in my country.



And just who are these magical Aspies who "acquire lots of success and get what they want"? And exactly what amazing "aptitude" do these fantastic people possess?

You're using vague statements without backing to try and make a non-existent point.



You speak only for yourself, you can't say there should be a cure just because you want one. If that logic stands, I want a flying car right now! In fact, no, everyone with my condition wants a flying car now!

I am not enforcing my will on anyone, I am displaying my support for an organsation which speaks on behalf of a variety of different people who believe in its cause.



Well the ASAN already listens to the lower functioning. And, again, you make the mistake of assuming that all people similar to you have the same outlook and the same interests. That way of thinking is deluded.



The point I was making was that there are many different people who support this organsation, regardless of what "functioning" label they've had slapped on them. Just because you're not one of these people, however, you're trying to claim everyone else should be against them. This is stupid.



My attitude and tone are appropriate for what they were originally in response to, which was the unverified, unbacked claims that the ASAN is "Ari Ne'eman and the phony thugs", which is a view you hold because, simply, you disagree with their agenda. But you aren't the centre of the world.

I don't believe you. Not with all the progress humanity has made. Don't tell me things can't change. ASAN hasn't made anything better. There's nothing great to expect from a bunch of pretentious jerks moaning and groaning a bunch of out of touch slogans while those who they're supposed to represent have to put up with all kinds of misery.






You can't contradict my points. You have nothing to put up against them obviously. I didn't say they were all independent. Don't tell me to explain something that anyone familiar with this topic basically knows. You know what I'm talking about. Since you think life has to stay unfair, the least you should do is acknowledge the very unpleasant reality.


I don't speak of arguments that are unusual. Lots of individuals basically think this way. It's a widespread issue. I didn't say just because I want one. Lots and lots want one. Flying cars? Often when callous individuals such as you bring up "logic", they tend to make ludicrous and irrelevant points. You clearly don't want to deal with what I'm saying. How would you not be enforcing your will on anyone, if you were to prevent a cure from being devised, denying many the chance to receive one?


I doubt they do. I know what makes sense about what is beneficial. Many out there eventually come to this outlook. Who wouldn't favor something as progressive as what cure is for, if they were to benefit from it?


I wonder what about the organization makes them support it.



Unverified? I haven't been delving into the details of them. I expressed an opinion about their general goals, which is why I make subjective statements about them. This is not a fact checking situation. Anyway, I mentioned that Ne'eman called for a moratorium on federally funded autism genetic research. That's a fact. Why shouldn't I disagree with them? Why should I be one of their sycophants, as if I'm the only nutcase who is crazy enough to not like them? Who made you and the other elitists the center of everything, and why should all others do what you say?

ASAN has not had a chance to do much due to their small size and limited funding. But they still protest for our interests and against Autism Speaks. That alone is a worthy reason to support them.



Yeah, my actual statistics are nothing compared to your random bursts of bulls**t...



The "unpleasant reality" seems to be true for many Aspies, too, stop acting like you're the only person with problems, and you have yet to tell me what superpowers Aspies have for getting whatever they want - honestly, I want to unlock this power you say I have!



Curbies, more often than not, are ignorant NTs. But just because the whole "THEY ALL NEED CURING" viewpoint is popular, it doesn't mean it's right. McDonald's is popular, does that make their food healthy?



A cure would pretty much kill all technical progress. I mean, I'm using Firefox right now, which is created by people who choose to code computer programs voluntarily in their spare time. Who's more likely to do that, autistic people or NTs?

The same goes for people who work as programmers etc. Most will at least have a few traits, and if autism is seen as a disease that needs curing, then they'll all be gone. I wish you happiness living in the stone ages. But I don't wish to join you, thanks.



I'm guessing a large factor is how they treat them like humans instead of monsters that need curing.



You have nothing to back your argument up with. All you're doing is assuming your opinion is universal truth that everyone should accept, and you cover your ears when I back the truth up with evidence. You're living in fairy land if you think all Aspies are elite and just get success handed to them without doing any work - hell, you'd be deluded if you thought the same of NTs, too.

Get back to reality.

They shouldn't waste their limited time with pushing hackneyed cornball rhetoric. I see way too much talk of ivory tower identity politics which achieves nothing.


You have no statistics. I don't know what you're talking about.


Talking to you is like talking to a wall. You barely acknowledge half the things I say and disregard the other things I say so you can continue portraying me as a creep. What's with this "superpower" crap? Go back to watching sci-fi crap over and over or whatever it is you do. You don't have respect for reality. I'm not sure how small the section of the better off aspies is compared to the overall group, but I don't think they deserve to keep their genius IQs and technology related skills to themselves.


You're full of it and you know it. I heard of many scumbag NTs side with your anti-cure anti-progress ideas, many of them well off mentally themselves. I see those ideas prevalent among the particularly successful. And many on the spectrum look forward to what cure would provide. I think that popular/majority opinion and point of view is very important and should lead decisions.



I think you're talking of smart individuals in general who have the aptitude to do those things. Things like firefox have been helpful, but there are others out there who make malware. So I still think there's been a lot of squandering of technological possibilities, and having only a small proportion of individuals monopolizing the ability to devise technology is part of the reason. Autistic or NT, I don't think they should be the only ones to have that capability. I'm not thinking with this notion that all of you would be converted to NTs or whatever. I don't know what important differences there are between individuals of the same ability, autistic or NT. As I've seen, there is want out there, to spread around all those abilities to learn and implement technology related things, to those who don't have them. That's what I'm thinking of. It's obvious that those who have to struggle with few capabilities are the ones who work the hardest. Nobody had a choice of who would be born with many gifts and who would be born with many difficulties.


Oh, that is so touching. Cure has nothing to do with being a "monster". I think the types who talk like that seem indifferent to human needs.


I back it up with the basics. All you do is antagonize me for having an opinion while pretending it doesn't resemble anyone else's. You don't have any evidence. All you do is make phony remarks and praise jerks who make very corny statements. I don't know how many of the aspies are in the elite, but I know they're out there, and that there are some NTs who are exceedingly well off also.

As far as prenatal tests go, yes some will abort on the basis of an autism gene just like some will abort over the gender of a baby. Some people are just sick that way.
BUT I don't think that is the intention of researching. You know spinal bifida is directly related to a lack of folic acid in the very early stages of pregnancy. Who's to say there isn't a prenatal vitamin that can be given, or prevent contact of something common in the environment, like that one disease(can't remember which one) where the mother cannot be around the feces of a cat when she is pregnant, something about not cleaning the kitty litter.
Just because someone wants to research prenatally, I don't assume their intentions are evil.

dalurker, I just wanted to tell you that you write intelligentlly and I think your views are very rational. It's very impressive to see how you stick to the points in your debates.

You make a lot of considerate points chiyoko. I hope others look at it that way so they can see the possible opportunities available.

O rly?



You were saying?



A very hypocritical comment from someone who's doing the very same.

Besides, I'm not doing that at all, all I've really done here is ask you to back up what you're saying with facts, which you've repeatedly been unable to do.



Why don't they deserve their skills? And what would all this anti-autistic research you support do about it? You can't just start redistribution of IQ points.

Though, since you still maintain that only the "high-functioning" people are intelligent and successful, allow me to point out that the most intelligent man in the world, who has the highest IQ in the world, is in a wheelchair.



Good, we have progress then!



The majority opinion among autistic people is that there should not be a cure, so you've shot yourself in the foot there.



That's because only a few people have the ability to do so, and as I've said, you can't just redistribute talent, and a cure to autism would reduce the amount of available talent if anything.



Again, if you cured autism, you wouldn't be able to redistribute talent, and you're more likely to simply reduce it. And again, you are living in a fairy tale land, like Robin Hood but with IQ points. It's ludicrous.



It does according to pro-cure organsations.



No, I've quoted statistics and I'm talking sense. You're living in a fantasy land where you can swap people's brains around. You seem to think that an autism cure would create a utopia in which everyone has the same level of skill. This is simply absolute non-sense.

All of this is irrelevant, however, as there will never be a cure. There may be a pre-natal test, sadly, but there will never be a cure.