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Should we work with Autism Speaks to promote positive images of autism?
Poll ended at 16 Apr 2008, 1:47 am
Yes! This isn't about spite. Any chance to get a positive message across is good. (Besides, if they back out now it will prove to everyone how they really feel.) 40%  40%  [ 36 ]
Not sure... (If this is your answer, please explain why in a Reply Post.) 13%  13%  [ 12 ]
No way! We don't want to make them look like they care while they are still working for a "cure". It's more important that people know we disapprove of their policies. 46%  46%  [ 41 ]
Total votes : 89

NewportBeachDude
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11 Apr 2008, 7:17 pm

Pepperfire wrote:
NewportBeachDude wrote:
Pepperfire, you can insult me, call me names, belittle me, accuse me of trolling, whatever you want to do. It is but a reflection of yourself, nothing more.

To others, this is a good thread on an important subject. One that may bridge a gap between two groups (WP and Autism Speaks) and possibly open the door for more advocacy on their part for Aspies. I'm willing to discuss this with anyone who wants to do it respectfully, even if we don't agree.


Ya think?

Remove my name from your tagline and I might feel a little differently towards you, Troll



The last time I checked I was a grown adult. I don't take orders from you. That you can guarantee.

This was a positive thread, even with all of the debate. This thread was a good example of how people can come together, voice their opinions without insults. That is, until you insulted me for no apparent reason. If you have grievances with me or anyone else, there are thousands of threads on this board to participate in. You need not read my posts. Reply to my posts. Or refer to my posts.

To the OP, I've said all I can on this topic. Once threads turn downward like this I lose interest.
:(



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11 Apr 2008, 7:20 pm

NewportBeachDude wrote:
Pepperfire wrote:
NewportBeachDude wrote:
Pepperfire, you can insult me, call me names, belittle me, accuse me of trolling, whatever you want to do. It is but a reflection of yourself, nothing more.

To others, this is a good thread on an important subject. One that may bridge a gap between two groups (WP and Autism Speaks) and possibly open the door for more advocacy on their part for Aspies. I'm willing to discuss this with anyone who wants to do it respectfully, even if we don't agree.


Ya think?

Remove my name from your tagline and I might feel a little differently towards you, Troll



The last time I checked I was a grown adult. I don't take orders from you. That you can guarantee.

This was a positive thread, even with all of the debate. This thread was a good example of how people can come together, voice their opinions without insults. That is, until you insulted me for no apparent reason. If you have grievances with me or anyone else, there are thousands of threads on this board to participate in. You need not read my posts. Reply to my posts. Or refer to my posts.

To the OP, I've said all I can on this topic. Once threads turn downward like this I lose interest.
:(


So leave. As I said, remove my name from your tagline... If that's not YOU being a Troll, I don't know what is.

It's not like you're anything but a bully NT anyway. God gave you an aspie child so you could learn something about yourself.


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11 Apr 2008, 7:28 pm

Pepperfire wrote:
NewportBeachDude wrote:
Pepperfire wrote:
NewportBeachDude wrote:
Pepperfire, you can insult me, call me names, belittle me, accuse me of trolling, whatever you want to do. It is but a reflection of yourself, nothing more.

To others, this is a good thread on an important subject. One that may bridge a gap between two groups (WP and Autism Speaks) and possibly open the door for more advocacy on their part for Aspies. I'm willing to discuss this with anyone who wants to do it respectfully, even if we don't agree.


Ya think?

Remove my name from your tagline and I might feel a little differently towards you, Troll



The last time I checked I was a grown adult. I don't take orders from you. That you can guarantee.

This was a positive thread, even with all of the debate. This thread was a good example of how people can come together, voice their opinions without insults. That is, until you insulted me for no apparent reason. If you have grievances with me or anyone else, there are thousands of threads on this board to participate in. You need not read my posts. Reply to my posts. Or refer to my posts.

To the OP, I've said all I can on this topic. Once threads turn downward like this I lose interest.
:(


So leave. As I said, remove my name from your tagline... If that's not YOU being a Troll, I don't know what is.

It's not like you're anything but a bully NT anyway. God gave you an aspie child so you could learn something about yourself.



Oh! So, now you're picking on my child? It's not enough that you can't chat respectfully. You have to go and bring my kid into it?

It takes two to fight. You're in this one by yourself. Peace.



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11 Apr 2008, 8:09 pm

NicholasGray wrote:

This afternoon I called an old friend of mine today, Tom, about his family being a potential candidate for interview. Tom is the father of two LFA children, now in their teenage years, as well as one NT son. The mother of these three did not cope well with the added responsibilities of raising ASD children. Joe, the youngest, presented with strongly self-violent stims and other than singing along with cartoons occasionally, remained non-verbal for several years.

The mother eventually gave up and left Tom to raise all of them on his own with nothing more than a school teacher's salary. But because he took the approach of trying to learn their world as much as he could instead of forcing them to fully adapt to his, they have been able to do it, even though they cannot afford almost anything in the way of additional special services.

Neither of his two LFAs will likely ever be able to live on their own without supervision. It's simply not in their future. Joe remians largely non-verbal and Jacquie is happiest making brightly colored paintings while she sings to herself in a language no one else shares. But they all live very happy lives and together they have built a wonderful integrated ASD/NT home. They even added a new mother figure to the mix a couple of years ago who has had to be inducted into their world from scratch.

I consider this a success story worth sharing. I think Tom and Jimmy, his NT son, could offer a lot of insight and hope to NT parents who have just been given the diagnosis. Instead of them finding nothing but horror stories and panic, I think this might offer some encouragement.


I love this story :D I mean, as the kind of story worth posting with this project. Obviously I don't love that the original mom couldn't handle it, but I do love that a wonderful second mom has taken it on.


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DW_a_mom
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11 Apr 2008, 8:12 pm

Newportbeachdude, while your tagline is your choice, I have to admit I've found it an odd one. I think it would be nice to change it, and not use that opportunity to highlight another member's statement.


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11 Apr 2008, 8:14 pm

Pepperfire wrote:
DW_a_mom wrote:
Pepperfire wrote:

And this, without being driven off the edge of a cliff because some of us have parents who can't find a way to communicate with us.


I hope I am not and will never be viewed as that sort of parent ... but, if you think I may be, I'm open to listening and learning.


Here's the rub... anyone who can join AS and IGNORE the fact that they are pro-eugenics because of their association with CAN and pro-eradiction because that is all that eugenics can possibly mean, is viewed as that sort of parent.

There isn't a gray area. If you want treatments, and aid and support and succor, then say so, if you want to support eugenics and eradication then say so, but you can't support eugenics and eradication and expect those of us who are horrifed by that to be accepting and appreciative that this is an acceptable stance. (I say "you", but I mean "one")


I guess I don't really understand your point.

I'm not a member of Autism Speaks. I don't donate, I don't assist.

That we might use their platform to sell a difference message is what is under discussion. And we're all getting our opportunity to cast our vote.


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Last edited by DW_a_mom on 11 Apr 2008, 8:17 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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11 Apr 2008, 8:15 pm

OK...back to the original post....


I am trying to think as an advertiser/psychologist.

What is the goal...We have a message,several in fact ,that we would like to get to a larger audiance.

Why? To assist in the better care,respect for our humanity and services needed for some of us to function optimaly, whatever that means for each individual.

How to you reach people who are responding with emotional over-load and (some)with a limited ability to use logic?


With our humanity. That seems to be what Grey would like to do. If AS refuses to post the information, he can present them elsewhere with the prologue..."this is what AS did not want you to know".

If AS tried to present the submissions as "proof" that the community condones the current practices and goals of autism speaks...it can be refuted. That is called publicity...for the message.


When you address someone as the "enemy",you have already lost them in hearing anything else you have to say. Some of these people will never be able to be reached,I think it would be a disservice to our community to write them "all" off as cruel,ignorant,stuipid,selfish. If approached with understanding for their difficulties and concerns,we are more likely to get them to hear our message. It is just human nature. My granny called it.."attracting more flys with honey then viniger". I thought(why in Gods name do I WANT to attract flys!! !!)Well, because these flys are making policy that effects me and people I care about.

Whats the message???? I have my own....."There are currently adults with and without a DX of As who need services not currently available that would allow them to have more fulfilling lives and as importantly "give back" something worth while to society. Please quit writing us off as a "lost cause" of the past an help us help current children with As achieve their full potentials.


What message would you like policy makers to understand?(Beyond ...please don't kill, drug,institutionilize us for being different :wink: )


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11 Apr 2008, 8:16 pm

NewportBeachDude wrote:
You're right about the word 'align.' I should have said cooperate or something, but you get the gist. I'm just saying it would be a positive thing.



I think we're more talking about borrowing their platform to project an alternative message, a more positive one. I wouldn't go so far as to say cooperating, either.


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11 Apr 2008, 8:19 pm

Krex, great post (too long to quote).

I love your message, about support.

And I like the idea, as I've said before, of including scenes that let people know that what an NT might see as pathetic, like staring at a wall, can actually be sheer joy to someone on the spectrum. And to us NT's, once we allow ourselves to see what they see :D


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11 Apr 2008, 10:39 pm

NewportBeachDude wrote:
morning_after wrote:
Do you think it might change their minds about us, Newport?



Yes. I do. I think the more awareness about Aspergers the better because I think many people out there don't know enough about it. A lot of people have never even heard of it. I think it would be cool if Autism Speaks had separate categories on their site for Aspergers, adult Aspergers and adult Autistics. These categories would have resource links that would help families and adults. ASpeaks is still very young and I betcha that as time evolves, we'll all see more information on there about these three categories, not just Autism. My kid will someday be an adult Autistic and we may look to those resources for information.

Anyway, I hope your kid's doing well, too. Have a good weekend.


Thanks, but I don't have a kid.


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11 Apr 2008, 10:40 pm

Smelena wrote:
Now I would never lower myself to blatant self-promotion but ..... :lol:

here is a video my sons and I made over the Easter long weekend.

[youtube]http://youtube.com/watch?v=7-ZBxFYFvuA[/youtube]

This is our story. Our story is different to everyone else's story. This is why many, many videos need to be made featuring many, many different families/individuals.

I hope some other WP members will start making their own videos along with NicholasGray. They need to be made and broadcast in a number of forums: Youtube, WP etc etc.

Nicholas Gray sounds like he has a good background with meeting different families/individuals on the spectrum. He also sounds like he is 'street-smart' and can protect his work.

Helen


And he seems very mature and approachable.


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11 Apr 2008, 10:44 pm

DW_a_mom wrote:
Newportbeachdude, while your tagline is your choice, I have to admit I've found it an odd one. I think it would be nice to change it, and not use that opportunity to highlight another member's statement.


I kind of have to agree. Pepper seems to be feeling a little picked on by it.

Now, if you two can't get along, please take it to an administrator. We cannot stop either of you from posting anything and this really isn't the place to fight.


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11 Apr 2008, 10:47 pm

DW_a_mom wrote:
NicholasGray wrote:

This afternoon I called an old friend of mine today, Tom, about his family being a potential candidate for interview. Tom is the father of two LFA children, now in their teenage years, as well as one NT son. The mother of these three did not cope well with the added responsibilities of raising ASD children. Joe, the youngest, presented with strongly self-violent stims and other than singing along with cartoons occasionally, remained non-verbal for several years.

The mother eventually gave up and left Tom to raise all of them on his own with nothing more than a school teacher's salary. But because he took the approach of trying to learn their world as much as he could instead of forcing them to fully adapt to his, they have been able to do it, even though they cannot afford almost anything in the way of additional special services.

Neither of his two LFAs will likely ever be able to live on their own without supervision. It's simply not in their future. Joe remians largely non-verbal and Jacquie is happiest making brightly colored paintings while she sings to herself in a language no one else shares. But they all live very happy lives and together they have built a wonderful integrated ASD/NT home. They even added a new mother figure to the mix a couple of years ago who has had to be inducted into their world from scratch.

I consider this a success story worth sharing. I think Tom and Jimmy, his NT son, could offer a lot of insight and hope to NT parents who have just been given the diagnosis. Instead of them finding nothing but horror stories and panic, I think this might offer some encouragement.


I love this story :D I mean, as the kind of story worth posting with this project. Obviously I don't love that the original mom couldn't handle it, but I do love that a wonderful second mom has taken it on.


I have to agree. This story is pretty awesome.


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11 Apr 2008, 10:51 pm

krex, I like your post, too.

We need to approach them with understanding before we can expect them to approach us with understanding.


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12 Apr 2008, 10:23 am

NicholasGray wrote:
ouinon wrote:
nowhere have I seen anyone suggest sending videos of people not doing some sort of work, or not attending most classes in a normal school, or not having risen to do advocacy work, learning to speak etc
Back on the 3rd page
NicholasGray wrote:
I will make it a priority to feature LFAs as well as HFA and AS. I had not consciously meant to exclude half of the spectrum in my proposal!
All I've done so far is ask the community at WP for its input on what you'd collectively and individually like me to include...If after you've seen it, you still disagree, feel free to lambast me to your heart's content... all you are doing is tossing about speculation that is both hurtful and inaccurate.

I have not been "attacking" you. I have not been "lambasting" you. I've just been giving you my input on what I would like you to include in the presentation and what I wouldn't. I have just been answering your question. I don't understand why you think I have been attacking you.

I was thinking hard about what kind of images might help people with AS and what would on the other hand just reinforce already existing pressures on them. You wanted input on the proposed content; you had mine.

NicholasGray wrote:
ouinon wrote:
... would die if he had to amuse himself with nothing for hours. So would most NTs. Do not pretend that most NTs would rather sit for hours doing almost nothing externally, than doing stuff, talking to people, watching TV, working, etc...

I would also respectfully suggest that people with ASD should probably exercise care not to lump all NTs together. Saying all NTs crave constant chatter and social activity is nonsense. Many prefer solitude and introspection, nice quiet corners to reflect on life, a calm meditative atmosphere and some respite from the wants of other people.

If you look carefully you will see that I did not say all.

But your suggesting that "NTs" in general
Quote:
might even be jealous
at the sight of someone with classic autism staring into space/at a wall, is at the very least disingenuous, at the worst quite offensive in its deliberate ignoring of the realities of most NT attitudes to people with LFA simply to score off me.

Please stop accusing me of attacking you; I don't know you; it is certain assumptions and ideas which I am attacking.

:!: :arrow: :D And I still think that my idea for a video showing lots of different driven self harming repetitive and dependent NT behaviours which are however accepted as normal is a very good one!!Appeal to NT's sense of humour! :wink: :D

:?



Last edited by ouinon on 13 Apr 2008, 4:21 am, edited 3 times in total.

AnnieDog
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12 Apr 2008, 2:58 pm

Nicholas:

I watched the video & I've read the thread.

Your question set forth a challenge to autism groups. Autism Speaks answered the challenge. If you don't accept their offer, will it look like we're all walking away? Can they then say, "We offered to let them portray some positive stories but they said no. I guess they don't have any really." I don't want to hand AS a weapon against people with ASDs.

They have a very visible platform right now. Let's borrow it. Videos on a website doesn't mean we all shut up and become part of the machine. But it's like Martin Luther King's approach versus Malcom X. Both were leaders for the same cause, but one approach gained wider acceptance in American society than the other. We who have ASDs are not to the point of armed insurrection. I hope we never are*. So let's use every platform we can to spread a message of hope and ability.

Fear is a fabulous and terrible motivator. Parents feel like they must do everything for their child, especially if they have a 'disorder'. There is incredible pressure from grandparents, friends, and society to try everything, to pity, and to 'fix' children. My friend's daughter developed a mild stammer at age 2.5 yrs. Only a stammer, something that is common in toddlers. The grandparents, aunts and uncles were extremely vocal that my friends needed to aggressively treat the stammer or the child would be broken, unable to speak, and stigmatized for life. This was just a stammer. The parents suffered the grief, but trusted their instincts and did nothing. She's been growing out of it over a few months, as most kids do. She's fine.

As others said earlier, the scared parents need us. They need to know that they aren't alone with their 'disordered' child. They need to be able to redefine what a successful life may be. It's like dreaming your kid will be a world-saving doctor and finding out that they are a mediocre plumber who's is a terrific parent. The plumber isn't a failure just because he isn't a doctor.

On the parents forum this week, a mother posted about how her kid called her 'mom' this week for the first time in years (maybe ever?). That's a success. It's small but it's a very bright light in the dark. Show families and the general public that there is hope, regardless of whether their kid is LFA or AS; that their kid may communicate with them through some means at some point; that their kid may know friendship and love; that their kid may even grow up, get a career and a family.

A diagnosis of an ASD is not a road of pain and depression, for the family or the child. You've found one fabulous story. You have access to tons more. Show the public the whole spectrum. If you (and us) don't show it - who will?

-Anne

(*Imagine the sensory overload from firearms, really - loud, smelly, bright flashes - we'd be the worst guerrillas ever.)


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