You guys don't understand.

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Why is it that when someone expresses an opinion that differs from the prevailing opinion of the board, someone always calls them a troll?
Disagreeing is not trolling, and if people can't handle being disagreed with, they probably shouldn't have unsupervised internet access.

You're posting on the assumption that people are takling about curing only the "lowest-functioning" people, and that we "don't want these people to have a chance at a decent life".



It's the combination of a low post count and giving an inflammatory view, making it appear as if they thought - "I know, lets go on WP and flamebait". I don't think that natedog714 is troll though, I just think that he's giving a pro-cure argument based on large unfounded generalisations.

Also, not that I said 'may'. The general outline of the opening post - short paragraph with a sentence in capitals - are indicative of a troll.

Once again, I must ask what people mean by 'cure', 'aspie', 'autie', and 'NT'.

Not that they might not want to, but rather they have no for knowledge of what they would be getting. Its vague like going to Disneyland the first time. It is not like having a million dollars and then losing it. Only experience sums those two things up.



They were definitely unfair to you. I dont find anything you said Trollish, even if I dont agree with it.



But then... neither do you. Because here you are, equal to the rest of us, standing in that nether region between normal and low functioning.



Their goals directly affect those aspoids that wish to reproduce. We have a greater chance of producing true autists. And frankly, their words are "cure autism" not "cure severe autism". They are never careful about clarifying it that way because it is not their goal. You are reading that extra word into their statements.

Consider the phrase "They only want to cure severe malaria". Banal, isnt it? Likewise, they want to eliminate Autism entirely. But autism is not a fatal disease.

Nate: you are entitled to your opinion. That comes with the understanding that others will not always agree, and that as an opinion it is not fact.

Others: Being pro-cure doesn't make someone a troll. One can disagree without attacking the individual or resorting to mocking in order to make one's point.


M.

It's actually being discussed these years, wether Asperger's is even austism at all.

I myself have wondered about what the connection between Asperger's and ADHD/ADD is. There don't seem to be any, and yet it's a fact that a lot of Aspies (myself included) have a condition that is like that of ADHD/ADD.


The idea of Aspies not being born, or not being allowed to grow up and become grown Aspies, is scary indeed. It's Nazi New Order all over again.

*******

Magneto,

NT is short for Neuro(logically) Typical, and refers to the term for common folks, folks who are not autistic. It's not a term that people with AS have made up. It's made up for the use of clinical physicians and researchers who work with autism.

Puzelle.

If Aspergers were separate from autism, then a rare 1 in 10.000 high functioning Autists would be both Aspergerian and autistic, just as say, one in 10,000 aspies probably has cancer.

It would be easy to say that the end result of such a combination is a LFA... but far more than 1 in 10 000 autists are low functioning.

So it is fairly apparent to see that the two catagories (HFA and aspergers) are not sufficiently distinct to be separate disorders. Far more likely HFA and aspergers fit together... but there is a causal relationship between HFA and LFA... without a doubt.

Its messy, thats all that it is. We are all one big neuro-deviant family.

Autism Speaks should have done some study before starting. Curing Autism does sound good for marketing, but when they ran into the science they were off base.

Most Autism is not LFA.

While they may be uninformed, they have done some good work. The funding for science has advanced the understanding of many things.

The pitch was we need to eradicate this horror, and they did fund genetic study for the purpose of abortion. The results did not fit their goals, but we do now know that autism is controlled by at least thirteen genes.

While I too went through a phase claiming AS/HFA was not Autism, I was wrong, it is all The Big A.

Besides that, the traits can be found broadly, Broader Autism Phenotype, about 10% of the population.

We have Autism Speaks to thank for funding this research.

I support Autism Speaks, they have disproved the metals view, cold mothers, lots of psychology, and brought a scientific view to the fore. A lot of autistic people have benefited.

I am not one to think that LFA are happy, nor are they lab rats. It is a real and expensive problem and should be studied. Treatments have been developed that do work for some people, mostly not LFA.

The field has grown, the science has grown, and so has Autism Speaks. Their message is changing, and they have been a force for fund raising for some real science. I would credit them with greatly improved treatment of head injuries as are being suffered by our troops in the field, and of course, the evil automobile, that does more damage than most things.

They have advanced our knowledge on Neurology, Genetics, and for that I thank them.

There is always more work to be done, and the funds they raise continue it.

We should work together for it is our 10% that gets the gene mix that produces LFA, and also some bright and talented people.

This is true enough, but I notice that many of the counter-arguments are also based on largely unfounded generalizations. Let us accept, for a moment, that there are probably people with autism who would prefer to retain their present state of being, and there are also people with autism who would prefer to have the opportunity to not be autistic. If we find a way to 'cure' autism, should we not exploit such a resource, at least in the cases of those who do not wish to remain autistic?

Let us accept, for a moment, that there are probably pigs with trotters who would prefer to retain their present state of being, and there are also pigs with trotters who would prefer to have the opportunity to not be trottered. If we find a way to 'cure' trotters, should we not exploit such a resource, at least in the cases of those who do not wish to remain trottered?

Oh... and lets ignore any attempts by them to fly.

A parody, but hopefully one that illuminates the flaws in the argument.

The gross central problem with Autism Speaks is their consistent misrepresentation of what they are doing. They acquire their money by exploiting images of low functioning autistics (or actors?), quoting statistics for the overall autistic spectrum, stating that they will "help" them (when only a tiny percentage of their income goes on supporting the families of autistics, not the autistics themselves), and spending the money mainly on devising ways to prevent autistics from being born.

And I forgot - having that name - Autism Speaks" - which is plain offensive, considering how inappropriate it is.

First, I did not make an argument. I asked a question. Second, your parody does not illuminate anything. The question remains whether individuals who are diagnosed on the autistic spectrum have a right to seek a medical means of altering that condition.

Your distaste for Autism Speaks is clear, though I cannot speak to your allegations regarding its misconduct. Nothing you have presented here manages to address the question I posed.

The question remains whether individuals who are diagnosed on the autistic spectrum will have a right to refuse a medical means of altering that condition.

For likely outcomes, look to deaf people and cochlear implants. The technology now exists to make deaf people able to hear. Cochlear implants are here now- they are not theoretical in the future- so the deaf community has wrestled with this already. What has happened? Nobody has required deaf adults to get cochlear implants. However, many deaf children have been given cochlear implants and you can reasonably argue (and many in the deaf community have argued) that they shouldn't have this forced on them by their parents. It happens at such a young age that the child couldn't give informed consent anyway.

Likely outcome for an autism cure? Like cochlear implants, it would be 100% optional for adults and at the parents' discretion for children.

Then there is the concern that if genetic testing for autism becomes available, women will be pressured into aborting autistic fetuses and resources will be taken away because those children didn't have to be born. Again there is precedent. This time with Downs Syndrome. A genetic test exists and when I was pregnant I was counseled by my obstetrician to get it done. I declined and that was the end of it. There was no pressure and resources have not been snatched away from people with Down's Sundrome even though their parents did have the option of aborting them.

When looking at the consequences of "cure", look outside of autism. These issues have already come up for other disabilities where cure/genetic testing is here now, not merely hypothetical.

I don't think that's accurate... I would draw a closer comparison to how prenatal testing for Down's Syndrome has affected birth and abortion rates in those instances than those associated with deafness.


M.

With the best of genetic study, autism is based on performance, there is no test, there will be no test.

From where Autism Speaks started, nothing going on, lots of myth and snake oil, they have cleared that up, disproved most of it, and the fund raising is like all fund raising, one pitch designed to motivate the masses.

Haiti is bringing out the same, Donate Now! Save Lives!. Give $1 to the Red Cross and the odds of any of it ever getting to Haiti are slim. Perhaps if they still had a five star hotel, but all all of the rescue folks are thinking of the price of plane tickets, new gear, hotels, it is winter, Wrong Planet could use me reporting on Autism in Haiti from a beach hotel in the Dominican Republic for six months, expenses plus $5,000 a month.

Charities are a scam, in my State the law says, and it might be national, at least 11% has to go to a charity, the rest can be spent on fund raising. Autism Speaks gives away 50%, and that is very good.

If you feel you can do better than the $10,000,000 they gave last year to peer reviewed broad science, and can do it at a lower cost, please do.

Autism Speaks spawned Wrong Planet, another voice from the fringe, based on some insider knowledge, which does provide a broader education, but has yet to do anything.

It is a billboard for ads, Natural foods for Heavy Metal Detoxification, but nothing posted on do it yourself.

I do think it is genetic, most of being human is. Narrowing testing to pinpoint LFA is not going to happen, and as for any treatment, everyone is at zero, and calling each other names.

The most likely cause is inbred European genes. With only seven mother lines, crossing them back is going to produce some strange things. Autism is not the worst, by far.

The Autism Spectrum is the problem, it is the source of LFA, and some good things, but not that anyone who knew them would say so.

Europe is more the problem for they have tried to clean up the gene pool more than a few times. The result was of course, they further reduced the gene pool.

I would not be surprised to find that all autism was a trait of one of the seven European lines.

Unfortunately Cochlear implants are a prosthetic not a cure. As well, the causes of infantile deafness are many: viral, genetic, organic damage... in one of those cases(genetic) it only delays the problem for another generation.

I can argue back with an example that is more pertinent. The use of artificial insulin. You might call that a cure, but unfortunately(from a species view point) it has allowed people with infantile diabetes to survive to reproduce. I'm glad those people get a chance at life, but it means that they pass their mutation on to their children. Indeed, diabetes is becoming more prevalent.

And I support their right to have children.

Thus it will be with autism. Unless you change the genes, any prosthetic maneuvers will cause the autism index to rise. Curists are simply shooting themselves in the foot.

Adaptive measures will select for autism, not against it.