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How to save Asperger's in DSM-V

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MindBlind
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13 Feb 2010, 12:48 pm

tangerine12 wrote:
Ok so Asperger's will be eliminated as a separate disorder. Thing is, calling it "mild" autism seems to be wrong. In rating the severity the propose:

Autism: severe, moderate, mild,

why not

Autism: severe, moderate, Aspergers


Given how much effort, research, books that has been already invested in Aspergers, and how many books written on Aspergers, calling it mild seems to be an injustice, and it may not be mild to those who have it,

would you rather be told you have mild autism, and then google or try to read books about mild autism, or find them on youtube, or
would you rather be told you have asperger autism, and then google or try to read books about mild autism, or find them on youtube,
The difficulties in making friends, finding love, and finding employment are not "mild" but there is considerable amount of information for those with AS.


I feel it is a disservice to tell parents their child only has "mild" autism, esp when the child has difficulty making friends or is traumatized.

please register and voice here
http://www.dsm5.org/Pages/default.aspx


How about:

Autism Spectrum Disorder: Apple, Orange, Grapes

Or

Autism Spectrum Disorder: Wolf, Dog, Puppy

Or MAYBE

Autism Spectrum Disorder: Profound, Severe, Moderate, Mild (and possibly Sub-Clinical).

I mean "Autism: Severe, Moderate, Aspergers" is a stupid way to "save" a name. You can still call it AS if you want. Hell, call it oranges and apples and pears and stairs if you want, but officially it will be known as "Mild Autism".

Also, the reason why they are changing the criteria to this is BECAUSE AS isn't always mild. If you are severely affected by AS, you will be considered severely affected by autism. If you are moderately affected by classic autism, you will be considered moderately autistic and so on....

How are people not getting this?



tangerine12
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13 Feb 2010, 1:22 pm

MindBlind wrote:
tangerine12 wrote:
Ok so Asperger's will be eliminated as a separate disorder. Thing is, calling it "mild" autism seems to be wrong. In rating the severity the propose:

Autism: severe, moderate, mild,

why not

Autism: severe, moderate, Aspergers


Given how much effort, research, books that has been already invested in Aspergers, and how many books written on Aspergers, calling it mild seems to be an injustice, and it may not be mild to those who have it,

would you rather be told you have mild autism, and then google or try to read books about mild autism, or find them on youtube, or
would you rather be told you have asperger autism, and then google or try to read books about mild autism, or find them on youtube,
The difficulties in making friends, finding love, and finding employment are not "mild" but there is considerable amount of information for those with AS.


I feel it is a disservice to tell parents their child only has "mild" autism, esp when the child has difficulty making friends or is traumatized.

please register and voice here
http://www.dsm5.org/Pages/default.aspx


How about:

Autism Spectrum Disorder: Apple, Orange, Grapes

Or

Autism Spectrum Disorder: Wolf, Dog, Puppy

Or MAYBE

Autism Spectrum Disorder: Profound, Severe, Moderate, Mild (and possibly Sub-Clinical).

I mean "Autism: Severe, Moderate, Aspergers" is a stupid way to "save" a name. You can still call it AS if you want. Hell, call it oranges and apples and pears and stairs if you want, but officially it will be known as "Mild Autism".

Also, the reason why they are changing the criteria to this is BECAUSE AS isn't always mild. If you are severely affected by AS, you will be considered severely affected by autism. If you are moderately affected by classic autism, you will be considered moderately autistic and so on....

How are people not getting this?



Go ahead and google and go to amazon and youtube

Autism Spectrum Disorder: Apple, Orange, Grapes

Or

Autism Spectrum Disorder: Wolf, Dog, Puppy


and let me know what you get,

and then google and go to amazon and youtube on

asperger


I object to the difficulties I face as "mild autism" as I am with a group of very gifted NT adults.



MindBlind
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13 Feb 2010, 1:31 pm

tangerine12 wrote:

Go ahead and google and go to amazon and youtube

Autism Spectrum Disorder: Apple, Orange, Grapes

Or

Autism Spectrum Disorder: Wolf, Dog, Puppy


and let me know what you get,

and then google and go to amazon and youtube on

asperger


I object to the difficulties I face as "mild autism" as I am with a group of very gifted NT adults.


My point is that "Autism" is a word and this trying to defend the word "aspergers" is nonsense. The whole point of the new criteria is that we don't undermine the severity of people's problems. When you look up "Aspergers" people will usually say that it's mild, but it depends on the individual. I know people with AS who are quite severe because of the conditions that they live in, but a diagnosis of AS would imply that they are mildy affected when they are not. The new criteria doesn't ignore that. It depends on how the individual is affected by their condition (whether the subtype would have been AS in the DSM IV or not). Also, this label can change over time, which means that if the severity of your condition has been undermined, then they'll change it depending on your personal needs.

Determining ASD's based on subtypes IGNORES the problems that aspies face. That's why I support the change.



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13 Feb 2010, 3:04 pm

I don't really see the point of trying to "save" it. Asperger's is kind of an outdated thing that was identified back when they thought severity of autism was determined by IQ, which we are seeing more and more that it's not. I think people like being called aspies because it separates them from the rest of the autism spectrum. But really, changing the name of it or merging it into the autism category will not make our identities or even really our diagnoses go away. It may even make it easier for people diagnosed with Asperger's to get help that is available to "lower-functioning" autistics.



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13 Feb 2010, 3:23 pm

ScooterDiva wrote:
DSM is only used in the USA.

Its used in Canada, my dx was made using DSM, personally I am not to worried if aspergers is removed from the DSM, we will still be in the autism spectrum, I hope we will see a more accurate diagnoses for people autism, it always seemed to me that aspies
could be so different from each other personality wise



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13 Feb 2010, 3:29 pm

ScooterDiva wrote:
DSM is only used in the USA.


Nice, this must mean that the DSM is only used in English-speaking countries, I live in Europe, so the DSM will probably be dismissed here.



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13 Feb 2010, 4:12 pm

MindBlind wrote:
tangerine12 wrote:

Go ahead and google and go to amazon and youtube

Autism Spectrum Disorder: Apple, Orange, Grapes

Or

Autism Spectrum Disorder: Wolf, Dog, Puppy


and let me know what you get,

and then google and go to amazon and youtube on

asperger


I object to the difficulties I face as "mild autism" as I am with a group of very gifted NT adults.


My point is that "Autism" is a word and this trying to defend the word "aspergers" is nonsense. The whole point of the new criteria is that we don't undermine the severity of people's problems. When you look up "Aspergers" people will usually say that it's mild, but it depends on the individual. I know people with AS who are quite severe because of the conditions that they live in, but a diagnosis of AS would imply that they are mildy affected when they are not. The new criteria doesn't ignore that. It depends on how the individual is affected by their condition (whether the subtype would have been AS in the DSM IV or not). Also, this label can change over time, which means that if the severity of your condition has been undermined, then they'll change it depending on your personal needs.

Determining ASD's based on subtypes IGNORES the problems that aspies face. That's why I support the change.


My point is that once I was diagnosed with Asperger

I could go to amazon and youtube and type in


Autism Spectrum Disorder: Apple, Orange, Grapes

Or

Autism Spectrum Disorder: Wolf, Dog, Puppy

and found nothing.

Stating I have "mild" or subclinical autism does not do justice to the problems that I face, and there are asperger support groups, not "mild" or subclinical support groups.



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13 Feb 2010, 4:21 pm

tangerine12 wrote:
MindBlind wrote:
tangerine12 wrote:

Go ahead and google and go to amazon and youtube

Autism Spectrum Disorder: Apple, Orange, Grapes

Or

Autism Spectrum Disorder: Wolf, Dog, Puppy


and let me know what you get,

and then google and go to amazon and youtube on

asperger


I object to the difficulties I face as "mild autism" as I am with a group of very gifted NT adults.


My point is that "Autism" is a word and this trying to defend the word "aspergers" is nonsense. The whole point of the new criteria is that we don't undermine the severity of people's problems. When you look up "Aspergers" people will usually say that it's mild, but it depends on the individual. I know people with AS who are quite severe because of the conditions that they live in, but a diagnosis of AS would imply that they are mildy affected when they are not. The new criteria doesn't ignore that. It depends on how the individual is affected by their condition (whether the subtype would have been AS in the DSM IV or not). Also, this label can change over time, which means that if the severity of your condition has been undermined, then they'll change it depending on your personal needs.

Determining ASD's based on subtypes IGNORES the problems that aspies face. That's why I support the change.


My point is that once I was diagnosed with Asperger

I could go to amazon and youtube and type in


Autism Spectrum Disorder: Apple, Orange, Grapes

Or

Autism Spectrum Disorder: Wolf, Dog, Puppy

and found nothing.


Yeah- you're still missing the point. "Apple" "Grape" "Puppy"- they're words! Trying to change the criteria to "Severe, Moderate, Aspergers" is as silly as calling it "Shoe Lace Disorder". It's a word- who cares?

I was diagnosed with Aspergers too and I know that I won't just be called "mildly autistic" just because of my asperger diagnosis, They'll it on my personal needs- not on my previous diagnosis. Now, I'd be called "mild" because I've had so much support in order to acquire many of the skills that I need to function in society, but I didn't get that help, I might be more severe and despite my ability to speak, I would be labelled severe.

Is this making sense to you? Sometimes I'm bad at wording things.



tangerine12
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13 Feb 2010, 4:27 pm

MindBlind wrote:
tangerine12 wrote:
MindBlind wrote:
tangerine12 wrote:

Go ahead and google and go to amazon and youtube

Autism Spectrum Disorder: Apple, Orange, Grapes

Or

Autism Spectrum Disorder: Wolf, Dog, Puppy


and let me know what you get,

and then google and go to amazon and youtube on

asperger


I object to the difficulties I face as "mild autism" as I am with a group of very gifted NT adults.


My point is that "Autism" is a word and this trying to defend the word "aspergers" is nonsense. The whole point of the new criteria is that we don't undermine the severity of people's problems. When you look up "Aspergers" people will usually say that it's mild, but it depends on the individual. I know people with AS who are quite severe because of the conditions that they live in, but a diagnosis of AS would imply that they are mildy affected when they are not. The new criteria doesn't ignore that. It depends on how the individual is affected by their condition (whether the subtype would have been AS in the DSM IV or not). Also, this label can change over time, which means that if the severity of your condition has been undermined, then they'll change it depending on your personal needs.

Determining ASD's based on subtypes IGNORES the problems that aspies face. That's why I support the change.


My point is that once I was diagnosed with Asperger

I could go to amazon and youtube and type in


Autism Spectrum Disorder: Apple, Orange, Grapes

Or

Autism Spectrum Disorder: Wolf, Dog, Puppy

and found nothing.


Yeah- you're still missing the point. "Apple" "Grape" "Puppy"- they're words! Trying to change the criteria to "Severe, Moderate, Aspergers" is as silly as calling it "Shoe Lace Disorder". It's a word- who cares?

I was diagnosed with Aspergers too and I know that I won't just be called "mildly autistic" just because of my asperger diagnosis, They'll it on my personal needs- not on my previous diagnosis. Now, I'd be called "mild" because I've had so much support in order to acquire many of the skills that I need to function in society, but I didn't get that help, I might be more severe and despite my ability to speak, I would be labelled severe.

Is this making sense to you? Sometimes I'm bad at wording things.


An elementary school teacher is informed that Heather Kuznick is ""Apple" "Grape" "Puppy"

She looks up on youtube and amazon "Apple" "Grape" "Puppy"

She finds no additional information useful in understanding Heather Kunick



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13 Feb 2010, 7:21 pm

Tangerine: What mindblind is trying to say is that the words we use are arbitrary. (Think of "A rose by any other name smells just as sweet") If we change the name from Asperger's to something else, it does not change who we are or how we are affected.


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13 Feb 2010, 7:29 pm

Orwell wrote:
Tangerine: What mindblind is trying to say is that the words we use are arbitrary. (Think of "A rose by any other name smells just as sweet") If we change the name from Asperger's to something else, it does not change who we are or how we are affected.


Thank you. I wish I was as articulate as you.



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13 Feb 2010, 8:18 pm

Orwell wrote:
Tangerine: What mindblind is trying to say is that the words we use are arbitrary. (Think of "A rose by any other name smells just as sweet") If we change the name from Asperger's to something else, it does not change who we are or how we are affected.


So we should keep Asperger's.



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13 Feb 2010, 8:39 pm

tangerine12 wrote:
Stating I have "mild" or subclinical autism does not do justice to the problems that I face, and there are asperger support groups, not "mild" or subclinical support groups.


Then maybe "mild autism" would be misdiagnosis for you, and "moderate" or "severe" would be more appropriate. And I can't see how current AS support groups are going to close down because of a change in nomenclature. They'll just keep running the same as ever, and probably just add "Asperger/autism" into the name.

Admittedly, I can see a problem in how exactly they decide to differentiate "mild" "moderate" "severe" and "profound." If it's such that if you can speak, then you are automatically "mild," and that if you can't you're automatically "severe," then that would be a problem. But that's basically how it is now, though.



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13 Feb 2010, 8:53 pm

They better keep Asperger syndrome on the books. Those with AS usually aren't mistaken for having even high functioning autism. But my school psychologist from high school believes in that AS should be distinct from general autism.



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13 Feb 2010, 8:57 pm

I can see both sides of the new DSM-V proposal debate. But what I want to say is this, calling ASD as mild, moderate, or severe might not be too accurate in my opinion. If AS is automatically considered mild, well, that is not a good idea. A person with AS might have more severe challenges in sensory than a classic autistic person. I have challenges with my sensory issues with my AS. Whereas one AS person might socialize pretty well, another may have incredible challenges. According to the current thoughts on AS and HFA---the difference is in language delay. I don't see where language delay can define severity in things other than language. There is more to it than that such as routine, interests, socializing, sensory, etc. The things other than not having language delay can create more severe challenges than mild.


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13 Feb 2010, 9:30 pm

tangerine12 wrote:
Orwell wrote:
Tangerine: What mindblind is trying to say is that the words we use are arbitrary. (Think of "A rose by any other name smells just as sweet") If we change the name from Asperger's to something else, it does not change who we are or how we are affected.


So we should keep Asperger's.

No, we should get rid of it. It is disingenuous to make an artificial distinction between Asperger's and autism where none exists, and the name "Asperger's" is tied to all sorts of ideas, such as the claim that it is not a part of the autistic spectrum. It will be much clearer and more accurate to place the entire spectrum under the same characterization.


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