Vaccination theory is proven fraudulent.

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OWNED! all those ppl like jenny mccarthy ARE SCREWED! they have NOTHING to backup their money grubbing BS!

Since I have autism an autism vaccine group was very rude to me and accused me of being an ASAN. This was 6 months ago and I thought they were saying I was as an individual with autism advocating. So I said yes I am an ASAN advocate. Before this a few were rude and I think they at times don't like self-advocates. I was just there to share my advocacy story and boy did some treat me like crap. Yet I really didn't understand the science they were talking about. Never been my focus and I could not tell if it was right or wrong but it sounded advanced.

I contributed information to "Age of Autism" of how the vaccination controversy divided autism groups with hostility, how people that used to work together are now torn apart by the dispute and how it just devastated previously functional groups from doing positive work about autism in the world.

I was blasted to smithereens by the members of the group - it seems I didn't understand the 'BIG PICTURE' and how all of this was somehow WORTH all the rupture and chaos it caused in our groups because their cause was just and their intentions pure. Eggs and omelets were mentioned.

I just couldn't stomach it, so I left the thread.

I don't know what to make of this. I've heard parents testify that their child was fine until the moment their child took the MMR. Then the child developed autism.

Well I for one just would like others to figure it out and meanwhile would like people to be nice to one another until then. I think the Department of Defense should mandate funding for it specifically and choose the researchers carefully.

OMG! Today two people called me stupid for saying that vaccines cause autism. I could understand their opinions. I based my opinion on talking to parents of kids with autism.

A well balanced view.

MMR, along with a raft of other shots, is generally administered (at least in the US) when the child is two.

In cases of autism, whether there was a vaccine or not, symptoms generally become really noticeable at about the age of two.

Correlation is not causation.

Examining old European folklore can be instructive. Many peasants of the Dark Ages believed that faeries were real, and that they would abduct human children and leave elf-children, "changelings", in their place. You could spot a changeling; he no longer responded to mummy and daddy, he cried at odd times, he didn't play much with other children. Starting to sound familiar? According to the legend, this swap would usually take place when the human baby was about two.

On the plus side, at least the modern folklore doesn't call for leaving the changeling alone in a forest clearing in the hopes that the vaccines will bring the "real baby" back...

It may be true, but autism seems to show up a day or two after the MMR.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Qc1EeSYr4ZY

It is kind of weird. However not all autism is regressive autism but original delay. That is why I think autism may be more then one thing manifesting similarly in different people. Autism is a puzzle and some people do not want it figured out for self-interest reasons and sometimes it's political reasons.

This HAS been brought up before:

Consider this undeniable fact:

Autism is generally not diagnosed until after (often shortly after) the age that the vaccines generally considered by some to have caused the Autism are given.

It's not necessarily that Autism wasn't present before the vaccines were given, but more likely that most diagnoses at such a young age don't happen before that anyway.

That fact alone doesn't prove correlation, much less causation, therefore anecdotal evidence of vaccine related Autism is HIGHLY questionable to begin with.

Birds tend to begin singing loudly shortly around sunrise. It's easy to assume that the sun rising might cause the birds to begin singing, and we're probably right about that.

But I have spent many a night up very late into the early morning hours, and have also noticed that many birds awaken in the summer months at around 3:00 AM and sing quite loudly for a while before going silent again until sunrise.

Since the sun rises just a few hours after this early morning ruckus, should I draw the conclusion that the birds singing at 3:00 AM causes the sun to rise just a couple of hours later?

We all know how ridiculous that sounds because we know a lot more about astronomy today than our ancestors did, but it might not have seemed like much of a leap of logic to them considering the strong apparent "coincidence."

I think the same thing has been happening with vaccines and Autism. I believe the anecdotal evidence of kids "developing" Autism shortly after receiving vaccines, but I don't think they really developed it at all. I think they already HAD it, and it is far more likely that the realization of it occurred after the vaccines. I do think it has always been pure coincidence.

A LOT of parents think their child was problem free before the vaccines, but are unaware that many Autistic symptoms don't show up obviously enough to notice at ages too young to be vaccinated. Most are NOT identified until after that anyway. Early identification is fairly new too, especially with milder forms of Autism, so it shouldn't be surprising that more identifications occurring soon after vaccinations began to happen.

I'm not saying that people who believe vaccines are the cause are stupid. I think most of them are fairly intelligent. I do think though, that most of them have little to no training or understanding of how to make firm determinations between evidence of true causation and lack thereof.

It must be chance that autism often occurs one or two days after the vaccine. Still, it's a strange coincidence.

Kingtut3, I'm not saying it's chance or coincidence, nor am I saying it's not. I'm saying that there can be a few if not many other reasons Autism is identified soon after vaccines are given. Just because "A" follows "B" doesn't mean A causes B.

"There is no such thing as a coincidence," is a popular saying, but it's false. Coincidences can and DO occur.

Scientifically speaking, it's not enough to observe B following A, and concluding that A must cause B. That's not scientific.

The proper way to find the truth is by eliminating everything that is impossible first. Then, whatever is left, no matter how improbable, must be the truth. Sound familiar?

The trouble with the supposed vaccine connection is that it all began when people started noticing Autistic behavior shortly after vaccines were given, and simply concluded it "must have been the vaccines."

What was NOT done was to look for and at any other possible connections. For example, Autism is very often not noticeable at all until a child begins to face more socially interactive situations. For most children that doesn't happen until at least after the age of two.

Or, how about this? My fourteen year old son FREAKS OUT whenever he has to get a shot of ANY kind. The whole situation is traumatic for him, and has been ever since he was around two. Before that, he had no idea it was coming, and might fuss a little, but got over it quickly. Right around two is when he started freaking about shots, and when his differences began to show up. Did the vaccines cause this? Or, is it possible that the simple trauma of getting the shot (no matter what it might have been), triggered Autistic behavior in ways we had never seen before? Is it possible it was present before at levels we just never noticed or thought anything of?

Too often we see coincidences and quickly conclude causation. Way too often.

Last edited by MrXxx on 17 Jan 2011, 10:26 am, edited 1 time in total.

BTW, I have never thought of anyone as "stupid" for thinking vaccines cause Autism. It's not that uncommon to conclude causation from coincidence. I think everybody does it from time to time. What seems obvious is often accepted as truth. It's a common human behavior. But it's not scientific. Solar eclipses once seemed obvious to ancient man to be the expression of an angry god. We know a heck of a lot more today, but we do still have the tendency to accept the apparently obvious to be the truth.

Unfortunately, that tendency sometimes results in innocent people being imprisoned, and unscientific conclusions to be drawn about causes for diseases and disorders. What SEEMS obvious is not always true.

In practice the obvious usually is true though, so it's easy to get so used to it being so that when it's not, we miss the truth altogether.

I've done it. And I'm sure I'll do it again quite a few times in the future.

When the topic is as debated as this one has been though, it really think we should all back up and ask another question.

"Is it at all possible there could be ANOTHER explanation?"

If the answer is "Yes," then a lot more research would need to be done before reaching any conclusion.

I strongly suspect the vaccines but as I have no hard proof all I have is suspicion. 28 years ago I took my MMR and developed measles. I had repeated ear infections after my vaccines. 4 years later I took my third MMR(there was a measles epidemic so I got it twice when I was 2)and lost a whole lot of skills at the age of 6. Funny thing is I remember I started losing the skills within hours of those shots. Two months later I developed epilepsy. I remember this clearly. Now I don't know but my son and I both have egg allergies and other food allergies as well.

Now when my son, who has Autism, got his DTaP he developed ear infection after infection. Now at the same time I got my boosters(it made no sense to give him shots and leave him at risk through me) and I had over 12 ear infections as an adult. When my son was given the MMR within hours he began losing skills. In addition he had severe stomach issues which at that point I had no idea what had caused them but strongly suspected food allergies and the vaccines. I then had my daughter and gave her the DTaP and she developed ear infection after ear infection. Now she is my last child and I took another vaccine prevnar and began having severe GI issues that lasted two months and required treatment.
I am 30 years old and I have celiacs but I have never had stomach infections that last months and require antibiotics to treat.

Now the decision came do I want to continue vaccinating my daughter. My answer was no. I do not have any proof that it causes Autism however I do know that it causes harm. I also know that neither my son nor I are immune to what we were vaccinated for. My daughter has had 12 yeast infections which implies there is something wrong with her immune system. A compromised immune system and vaccines are not a good mix.